Lower hammer on live round - M1911

[FireBreather01]

I believe the gun in question here was a Glock -
http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/story?section=local&id=3959456

And then there's this -
http://www.virusbrown.com/temp/cop%20gives%20a%20talk%20on%20guns.wmv

I agree with you, df, no excuses. I think what Tom is saying, in relation this specific thread where the safety of 1911's is in question, the Glock has a reputation for relatively frequent AD's, while the 1911 has a very good reputation. It doesn't excuse the shooter from paying attention to the four rules, no matter what the configuration!

[dfsutton]

I think what Tom is saying, in relation this specific thread where the safety of 1911's is in question, the Glock has a reputation for relatively frequent AD's, while the 1911 has a very good reputation. It doesn't excuse the shooter from paying attention to the four rules, no matter what the configuration!

I think the reputation for negligent discharge may have more to do with the general population make-up of the ownership groups than the guns.

Like I said earlier, the stereotype of Glock owners is that of some random guy who decides he needs a gun and rushes out and buys a Glock just because he's heard of their name. He can't shoot, knows nothing about safety, but wears Glock Logo gear all day. He is the kind of guy that shoots his own foot off.

The stereotypical 1911 owner is a gray-haired gentleman who most likely was in the military in his youth. He grew up shooting and owned many guns before getting a 1911 (partially due to cost).

Like all stereotypes, I feel these are based somewhat in truth. 1911 owners are for the most part older, more experienced, and know the fundamentals of safety. Glock owners tend to be younger and not as well versed in gun and safety kowledge. Does that make the Glock lesser than the 1911 because of the class of people that tend to use it? I think not.

[Richard S]

The stereotypical 1911 owner is a gray-haired gentleman who most likely was in the military in his youth. He grew up shooting and owned many guns before getting a 1911 (partially due to cost).

You called?  (Add an acronym or two and I'm your man.)  

[PursuitSS]

AD's are almost ALWAYS due to a lack of training. They occur with MANY pistols, Glock's, 1911's, HK P7's, etc., etc.
 
I feel comfortable will all of them, BUT, you are much better off sticking with ONE pistol if your life depends on it.

I carry a Glock 17L 9mm loaded with Winchester 127 gr. +P+ rounds on duty, I can carry ANYTHING OR CALIBER I want. (R.H.I.P.) I chose the 17L because of:

• Low recoil

• Accurate

• 100% reliable

• Large capacity magazines

• Digesting a round with a proven track record

You must pick your weapon based on trust, if you don't trust a 1911, it's not a good choice for YOU!

PursuitSS

[BillinPittsburgh]

This 1911 owner is 35 tears old but has just started to get a few gray hairs.

I like both 1911's and Glocks for many of the same reasons.

The statement that 1911 owners tend to be more sophisticated has some truth to it, but only to a very limited extent.  The vast majority of people who I see who really know what they are doing seem to choose Glocks most often, with 1911's being a close second.  The HK P7 and various Sig pistols will be thrown into the mix in lesser quantities, with others in the mix as well.

This may come as a surprise to some, but the single most intelligent group of shooters I have encountered are those who are into high end pocket pistols - Rohrbaugh, Seecamp, and North American Arms.  As proof, read the quality of the posts on forums dedicated to such guns, as compared to posts on forums dedicated to other guns.

My guess as to why is that they tend to be people who are very serious about either carrying a BUG or about being very discreetly armed 16/7.

[tracker]

To add further fuel and confusion to this discussion, Sig is
coming out with a P220R--single action only, with a thumb
safety because " there is now a strong trend among elite
units in law enforcement to choose and use cocked and locked
.45s and the same desire exists within certain units of the U.S.
military". The more things change---------.

[dfsutton]

Joy!

More to argue about.  

[tracker]

I was only trying to illustrate the futility of the argument.
Personal preferences and individual skill levels cannot be
relegated to a single standard in this case.

[R9SCarry]

I am reminded yet again of the old adage -

" Beware the man with but one gun''  It is one reason why for 20 months now my primary has been the 226 - and i use the 228 for practice - they are so close it matters not and the manual of arms is identical.

I have come to think more and more over the years - too much swapping of carry pieces is not conducive to optimal results - the exception in my case being the R9 - as BUG or occasional primary - but then I am familiar with the pup now.

[Richard S]

Personal preferences and individual skill levels cannot be relegated to a single standard in this case.

Truer words are rarely written.  

[Michigunner]

That is a statement full of wisdom.  It will be useful when dealing  with dogmatic people.

Thank you, tracker.

Bill

[Aglifter]

You can't go with just one CCW, then the others get jealous...

You're right, though, I'm sure -- I really should carry my IDPA gun (XD 45 5") -- I keep it in my briefcase, I've just haven't found a very comfortable way to carry other than in my pocket -- well, that, and they get sweaty IWB -- untucked isn't an option, really, can't have a sloppy appearance and make food.

[Richard S]

The October 2006 edition of Guns & Weapons for Law Enforcement contains a favorable review by Matt Berger of the SIGARMS "Revolution" 1911 .45 ACP.  Berger notes that SIG's new 1911 has just been selected by the Boston Police Department's Entry & Apprehension Team.  His review concludes with this comment:

"The gun delivers accuracy with reliability, and has all of the qualities of the classic 1911 design that have withstood the test of almost 100 years, and remains one of the most popular designs in the new century.  Beyond utility, this is a darn good-looking pistol.  The Revolution Stainless Rail is a triumph for SIGARMS, and should be a welcomed choice for any 1911 shooter."

[twostar]

So what is Riffraff?  An anti Luddite?  One thing he definitely is, is in the minority.  I don't know what type of 1911 you couldn't hit with but, you bring your Browning (which is a very nice gun, surprisingly designed by the same guy who designed the 1911) and I'll bring my 1911, and we'll have a little contest, perhaps for a dollar or two?  Then, if you like, we can switch guns and do it all over again?  Either you had a real dog of a .45 or the 1911 is too much gun for you personally.

I've carried a 1911 of one form or another for over 40 years, always Condition One, cocked and locked, and never had an AD.  I've also hit dangerous targets with lesser calibers than the .45 and failed to drop them with solid hits.  Does the term 9 mm mean anything to you?  It's never happened to me with a .45.  

My point is not so much to specifically defend the 1911, but to defend the position that anyone should tell someone else what defensive weapon to carry.  The best firearm in the world is useless if you are not comfortable with it, and a well placed minor caliber can be very effective if properly placed.  

As for the 1911 being obsolete, and being repalced by double/single action guns, most of the REAL experts I know consider the D/S Action to be an answer to a problem that doesn't exist, unless you consider the reaction of the uninformed to a cocked hammer.

The choice of a defensive weapon is about as personal as one can get.  You choose what you like and keep your nose out of my choice.  Otherwise you're creeping into the territory of the anti gunners.

[riffraff]

twostar,

Carry whatever you want.

I haven't owned a Hi-Power for many years.

I have never owned a 1911.

I will never own another single action again.  There are just to many better handguns out there.

Mike