2nd Amendment

[tracker]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17538139/#storyContinued
 
How about this action?

[Seven]

I'm sure pretty much everyone here has by now heard what this is all about - it was covered extensively on the gun boards I frequent, and even on the MSM.  But just in case...

For the first time, a court overturned a gun control law on the basis of it being contrary to an 'individual right' interpretation of the 2nd Amendment.  And they did so in language which was clear,  concise, and unambiguous - language which could have been written by many of the pro-gun folks who have argued this point for years.  It is very good news for us.

What the Supreme Court will do is still to be seen.  And how this all will play out in the political arena will be interesting, to say the least.  There has been a small but growing movement on the left and even within the Democratic Party to be pro-RKBA - I know, I am part of it. We're not to the point where we can do much more than get the old-line Dems to realize that it is bad politics to be anti, though some of the new blood "gets it", and I have hopes.

Anyway, if this decision is news to you, go look up what the summation said - you'll be pleased.  It was a major victory for all freedom-loving Americans.

7

[tracker]

Democrats pushing the right to bear arms sounds like a
cross-threaded move to me or, possibly, a move to the
center to gain votes. I think I remember J. Kerry in a
political commercial where he was shown in hunting gear.

The term "liberal" means a liberal interpretation of the
Constitution, doesn't it? That means they can manipulate
it or make addendums to whatever suits them.    

[Seven]

"Liberal" and "Conservative" have changed meaning considerably just in my nearly 50 years on this earth, let alone from what they originally meant.

There are plenty of even elected Dems (Tester, Richardson, Webb) who understand that it is in *all* our interests to support the Entire Bill of Rights rather than picking and choosing this one and that one.  

I'm fiscally conservative.  I'm socially liberal.  I've owned and shot guns for over 40 years.  I've worked for and voted for candidates of just about every political stripe, when I found someone who I thought was (more or less) honest and worthy of my support.  At other times I have held my nose and voted for the least of the bad choices.  I'm a member of both the ACLU and the NRA.  I don't fit comfortably in either of the major political parties, but feel that for the time being, the Dems best represent the majority of my interests, particularly if they have the good sense to support my RKBA.  I think I am like a lot of non-fringe Americans, and I welcome the decision of the District Court in this case.  

7

[theirishguard]

Seven, While I agree with you on the fact that this decision is good for all freedom loving Americans, I don't understand your membership in the ACLU. This later group is doing everything to destroy America, as our fore-fathers and founders saw it.  Tom

[tracker]

I agree with you on the ACLU, Tom. For example, one of their
proudest days in recent court cases was when a judge ruled
in Colorado that a teenage girl could have an abortion without
parental knowledge or consent. Maybe, they are like the
changing definitions on conservative and liberal [although I
don't think the definition of conservative has changed much].
The ACLU probably started out with honorable intentions as
stated in their charter but have evolved into something quite
different. If my teenage daughter were pregnant I, as a
parent think I have a right to be consulted on the abortion.    

[Seven]

Seven, While I agree with you on the fact that this decision is good for all freedom loving Americans, I don't understand your membership in the ACLU. This later group is doing everything to destroy America, as our fore-fathers and founders saw it.

Well, you probably won't be surprised to find that I don't see it that way.  There are things the ACLU does and doesn't do that I don't like, but I've long since learned that my mix of opinions are such that I shouldn't expect any large organization to agree with me 100%.  In particular, I don't like their "collective right" approach to the 2nd Amendment.  And that's why I belong to the NRA - to fill in that gap.

This past weekend the Nazis marched here in my hometown.  My opinion of them can't be posted in a decent forum like this to my complete satisfaction, since I would need to resort to the most foul language.  Yet the ACLU has consistently fought to make sure that those S.O.B.s are able to march and express their vile beliefs.  And that's OK with me.  Because in fighting for the rights of the fringe, the ACLU helps to secure *my* right to free speech, or to practice the religion of my choice, et cetera.

It's not a perfect world.  But I think that they are a net gain for our civil rights generally, and that's why I support them.

7

[theirishguard]

Seven, again, I can't agree with you about the ACLU taking up for religion. They sure hammer christians every chance they get.   Tom

[tracker]

I never even considered the need for a bulldog to interpret
and enforce the Bill of Rights and Constitution for us.

[Seven]

I never even considered the need for a bulldog to interpret
and enforce the Bill of Rights and Constitution for us.

But isn't that exactly what the NRA does, for our 2nd Amendment rights?  I see the ACLU in precisely the same light.  Perhaps it is my libertarian streak, but I do not trust the government - in whichever party's hands - to faithfully adhere to the Constitution unless there is a bulldog there growling at it.  Power is too tempting, and freedom too precious to trust to the pols, or even to the many who would sell out their freedom for a little comfort or safety.

And my compliments to both of you gentlemen - Tracker & Tom - for keeping this discussion civil and in accord with the high standards I have always found on this board.  Our politics may differ, but I think being appreciative of a fine firearm like the Rohrbaugh shows we all have a refined and discriminating taste.  

7

[tracker]

There may be a counter balance parallel between the NRA
and the ACLU but that thread is tenuous; the NRA exists
on a daily basis for our rights in a positive light whereas the
ACLU seems to be against a lot of activities under the veil
of liberty. I would be interested to know how many lawyers
are employed by each organization. [ sorry, Richard, no offense intended ].

The number of people who belong to both organizations
must be small indeed. I am not familiar with liberterian
democrats.  

[Brenden]

I do not believe in an organization that would defend such groups as NAMBLA!!
Let alone one that,to my knowledge,has not defended gun owners at any stage,and HAS defended many bad guys after said bad guys had broken into someones property and were injured/shot by the owners!
And Christmas would not be Christmas without all of the ACLU based injunctions to bring down the christian "props"!!

We are led to believe that the ACLU was formed to protect the Bill Of Rights,they seem to have forgotten the 2nd,and push their own political agenda of their own..

BTW-who provides the funding for the org.?

I am sorry,but I see no comparison between the NRA and the aclu..

We normally do not get "political" here so I am done with my small rant!!

[tracker]

Oook, Brenden.

[Seven]

I do not believe in an organization that would defend such groups as NAMBLA!!(

Well, to a certain extect that is like saying that because of the pedophile priests being protected by the church heirarchy, the Catholic Church is completely without merit.  Or that due to Ted Haggard's drug and gay prostitution use, the NAE as an organization does no good.  Or that because Newt Gingrich has admitted to extra-marital affairs while in the Speaker's office, indeed, while leading the fight to get Clinton impeached, all Republicans are therefore immoral.

Please note that I am not disagreeing with your feelings about NAMBLA.  But just because an organization or someone leading it sometimes does things that I don't like, does not completely negate all the other things that I do like.  The NRA has done things regarding gun rights that I don't like - and many gun owners feel the same way.  Yet most of us recognize that on the whole, they are worthy of our support & membership.

And yes, Tracker, there are a fair number of people who belong to both organizations (the ACLU and the NRA) - I know of a couple dozen friends (both personal and online) right off the top of my head.  I was discussing this thread with one of them, and he made the comment that as someone who is largely libertarian, he *expects* to be a target for both the Dems and GOP (yet he donates thousands to candidates he likes in both parties).  

We may disagree on other issues, but when we find allies on a given topic (gun rights, in this case), it just makes sense to work together.  "Purity Trolls" are a common problem in political forums - kicking someone out of your party (or just alienating them - same difference) or your cause because they may disagree with you on some points is a sure way to relegate yourself to minority status, or lose on your issue.  

7

[theirishguard]

Seven, I never really liked the far left ideas of the aclu. They really want to change America into what they want, a world wide country more fitting the PC's of the world than what our fore-fathers founded. When they went after the Boy Scouts that did it for me. You can believe what you want, but in my opinion, they would make changes so that you would not have that choice.   Tom