The Rohrbaugh Forum

Rohrbaugh Products and Accessories => Gunsmithing or Modifications for your Rohrbaugh => Topic started by: riffraff on August 21, 2006, 11:43:02 AM

Title: Continuation of FRUSTRATED
Post by: riffraff on August 21, 2006, 11:43:02 AM
I wanted to ask a question but thought it best to get the thread in a subheading where it belongs.
On the frame cracking issue:  has anyone fired one of these guns to failure or do the cracks appear and go no further?
Has anyone noticed that their gun was working fine and then started acting up and upon disassembly discovered the cracks?  In other words, will the cracks cause functioning problems immediately?

Mike
Title: Re: Continuation of FRUSTRATED
Post by: harrydog on August 21, 2006, 01:01:59 PM
Just to clarify, you mean slide cracks, not frame cracks, right?
Title: Re: Continuation of FRUSTRATED
Post by: riffraff on August 21, 2006, 09:05:11 PM
harrydog,

Yes of course you are right.  I totally typed the worng thing.   I definately ment slide cracks.  I hate it when I make  major mistakes like that!

Mike
Title: Re: Continuation of FRUSTRATED
Post by: S.F._Phantom on September 18, 2006, 12:18:32 PM
Harrydog,

Not sure as to when they have been cracking, however my partner at work has just found out that his slide is cracked.  He has stated that he has only put 200  rounds through his and he was not sure at what point it cracked.

Due to the fact that I carry mine everyday at work for 10-12 hours and then I carry it when off duty, I am getting a little concerned as to safety issues.  

Are these cracks large enough that the slide could potentially come apart when fired?
Has anyone Magnafluxed the cracked slides to find out how deep these cracks have gone?  
Are they surface fractures or are they truely cracking?

I have heard nothing but good things about Rohrbaugh so don't take my concerns as negative.  I would just like to see a little more proactive information being supplied.

Title: Re: Continuation of FRUSTRATED
Post by: riffraff on September 18, 2006, 02:04:33 PM
Phantom,

I am not sure if you have read all the threads and are aware of what little is known about the slide cracking issue.

The problem supposidly has been traced to a bad batch of barstock but the slides are not marked in any way so it is impossible to tell what frame serial # range that these slide cracks occour.  However the factory must have records of the lowest serial # and highest serial # guns that have gone back to the shed for repair.  Would somebody who is connected please call and get this information and post.  If someone calls and Rohrbaugh will not give this information then please post that also.

In the mean time I am going to start a new thread and ask members who have had this problem or know of someone who has had this problem to post serial #'s so we can get an idea of the size of this problem.

Mike
Title: Re: Continuation of FRUSTRATED
Post by: PursuitSS on September 18, 2006, 05:24:39 PM
i don't think the serial #'s are going to tell you ANYTHING! We ordered a reconditioned R9S a couple of months ago, the serial number was low 400's. A week later we received a NEW R9S and the the serial number was LOWER YET in the 400's!!!!

PursuitSS
Title: Re: Continuation of FRUSTRATED
Post by: riffraff on September 18, 2006, 06:32:56 PM
Pursuit SS,

Well It might tell us something.  If the slide cracking problem is spread out over the entire production run then we have big problems.  But  what I am trying to do is pin the problem down, clarify, get some solid info.  If this problem is not addressed, pined down,  clarified then it will only be another blotch on Rohrbaugh's name just like the jam problems have become widely known.

I am not trying to stir the pot or raise a rouchous but I will tell you that away from this forum I have heard some not so good things about the R9.  Maybe Rohrbaugh is happy with the demand for their product so far but if the bad reports about the gun grow further and with the very high price tag of the R9, Rohrbaugh might find their backlog shrinking fast.

Do not misenterpret this post, I own 2 R9S's.

Mike
Title: Re: Continuation of FRUSTRATED
Post by: S.F._Phantom on September 18, 2006, 07:44:51 PM
In the past I have attempted to narrow it down as well, however I was also told that is was a bad batch of barstock.  I maybe wrong, but I would think that serial numbers would be in an order and not random.  
An investigation into the repaired weapons/serial numbers, should supply a rough time period for that production.  If that proves to indicate a wide spread of serial numbers, then I would think that it was either not one order or it was a very large order of steel.  If that was the case, I would think that Rohrbaugh would contact the steel company and demand a replacement batch for their entire inventory.  

If this flaw goes past one order of barstock, maybe a recall would be in order???

Again guys, this is not to flame Rohrbaugh, this problem could become a liability issue for both the carrier and Rohrbaugh should an accident happen.  
Title: Re: Continuation of FRUSTRATED
Post by: MountainMan on September 18, 2006, 10:32:20 PM
I understand your concerns.  This has been discussed in detail in past threads.  I remember the cracks were spread out over the serial numbers with 500s, 600s, 700s, 900s, and I remember seeing one over 1000.  

The first slide crack reported on the forum was 53#.  That person has deleted all of his posts so it may be hard to follow that thread if you found it.  The way Rohrbaugh does serial number though you have no idea what guns have the bad steel batch- assuming that is the cause.

I have a R9 two serial numbers from a slide crack gun and it has been fine.

Rohrbaugh did take one on the early slide crack guns and put many rounds through it to see if it would fail with the crack getting worse and it did not.
Title: Re: Continuation of FRUSTRATED
Post by: riffraff on September 19, 2006, 01:20:02 AM
Thanks again MountainMan.  It is good to know that a torture test was performed.  I do feel better about the issue.

Mike
Title: Re: Continuation of FRUSTRATED
Post by: theirishguard on September 19, 2006, 10:11:48 AM
Mike, I also understand your concern. However, there where not that many slides/guns that had the cracking problem. It should be behind us now. All of those guns were returned and Rohrbaugh took care of all of them. If there is one still out there a call to Rohrbaugh should get it taken care of. I would carry, shoot and enjoy your pup and not worry about it.
Tom
Title: Re: Continuation of FRUSTRATED
Post by: riffraff on September 19, 2006, 11:31:53 AM
Tom,

I understand where you are comming from however in this thread S.F._Phanton posted that his partner just found slide cracks in his gun and the gun has less than 200 rds through it.  So what I am trying to say is with all the "very low round count" guns and with people owning more than one and haveing a "safe queen" or two and then selling one.  I don't think this issue is over yet.  My two guns are well above the serial # range that has been reported so apparantly I have nothing to worry about.  Just because I seem to be in the clear does not mean I don't want every other potential R9 owner to be aware of every possibility.  It would also be good PR for Rohrbaugh to warranty a slide crack no matter how many owners the gun has had IMO.  But then again who knows if the previous owners ran +P's through the gun so I can see where Rohrbaugh could be in a difficult position.

Mike
Title: Re: Continuation of FRUSTRATED
Post by: theirishguard on September 19, 2006, 04:39:10 PM
Mike, you don't know that they will not. I suggest you or others call Rohrbaugh and talk to them about this. Those with cracked slides in the past had no problems getting their guns taken care off. This is mole hill not a mountain. It is not necessary to go over this time and time again if there are not guns now with the problem. SF_ Phanton sure could have his partner call Rohrbaugh.
Tom
Title: Re: Continuation of FRUSTRATED
Post by: RA_Bakken on September 19, 2006, 06:50:15 PM
irishguard...I agree with you!  My slide cracked (#64*).  Instead of taking my concern to this forum first, I went immediately to the designer of the gun.  Karl and I (and Eric) spoke about it, they promptly and seriously dealt with the problem (a brand new slide, and a bunch of other stuff that all worked out in my favor!).

In normal life, if you have a problem, you always go the the person directly, not around their back, as it were.  This is a foundation of adult life, and variations on this ethic result in constant gossip and spreading of innuendo and ill-will.  

My recommendation?  Always, always contact the company before you contact this forum, if it's in relation to an R9 problem.  Other forum members can't come to your home to fix your pup (well maybe sometimes they can  :-))...they can give expert, relevant advice, yes...but they can't TRULY fix your problems with any specific gun.  Only the factory has the power to do that.

I've had two significant issues with various R9s, and both times, they have been dealt with in a superior fashion, with great courtesy and speed.  Each time, Eric, Karl and Maria exceeded my expectations.  As I've had some R9 problems, I'm certainly not a blind cheerleader...I'm very cognizant of the gun's potential problems (starting with the fact that some shooters just can't seem to shoot this gun very well, for whatever reason).  

Also, I would never shoot a gun to the point of failure.  Doing so is patently unwise.  This gun is not a military / large scale mass combat weapon.  As Karl has mentioned many times, this is the "derringer for the 21st Century."  Treating it to a Military torture test defies what it's intended purpose is...a last-ditch personal defense weapon that's designed to deliver it's projectiles up close and personal, then be reholstered after the (statistically few) shots have been fired.  Let's face it, this is an unusual, purpose-built tool.  As my firearms trainer says, "If 5 guys w/ MP5s jump out of a van and engage you, you're screwed anyways!"  This is a small self defense weapon, nothing more.

If someone wants a more "combat-ready" "sustained firefight" gun, for more serious missions, there is always the 1911, or the (gulp...) Glock.  :-)  Hehehe.....

Enjoy everyone'e comments here...and it's great to be a part of this forum.  Be safe!

- Spectro ;D
Title: Re: Continuation of FRUSTRATED
Post by: Brenden on September 19, 2006, 07:53:16 PM
Spectro,

Very well said!!!

I am certain that the R Bros will take care of problems that may occur down the line,first,second,third owner-nonwithstanding...

I believe it enough, that I own 2 "second hand" pups,and have not a worry that the Company will stand by their product!! 8)

Brenden
Title: Re: Continuation of FRUSTRATED
Post by: Richard S on September 19, 2006, 08:26:23 PM
Quote
 As my firearms trainer says, "If 5 guys w/ MP5s jump out of a van and engage you, you're screwed anyways!"  This is a small self defense weapon, nothing more.

If someone wants a more "combat-ready" "sustained firefight" gun, for more serious missions, there is always the 1911, or the (gulp...) Glock.  :-)  Hehehe.....

Enjoy everyone'e comments here...and it's great to be a part of this forum.  Be safe!

- Spectro ;D

Now that's the Lord's honest truth!  It happened to me in November of 1993 while I was parked on the side of a back road between Abuja and Jos in the Middle Belt of Nigeria adding water to the radiator of an overheated Peugeot sedan. As required at the time, I didn't even have a pocket gun with me, not to mention a 1911 or one of the "Black Guns." And I should note that of the five armed goons in two automobiles who had suddenly surrounded me that day, it wasn't the leader who held most of my attention but a little snake-eyed guy off at the side pointing at my belly what was called a "Dane Gun" (a homemade, sawed-off .12 guage).  

It was one of those ** **** moments when you wish you had one or two of the magnificent weapons with which you've been trained.  Anyway, I'm still here -- and I never liked that Peugeot anyway.  (However, I was rather proud of the watch of which they relieved me.)   :(
Title: Re: Continuation of FRUSTRATED
Post by: tracker on September 19, 2006, 09:06:14 PM
Richard,
It sounds as though the lack of a wonderful piece might be
the reason you are talking to us today, in this case.
Title: Re: Continuation of FRUSTRATED
Post by: Michigunner on September 19, 2006, 09:56:51 PM
Mike,

I agree with you.  There should be discussion about cracked slides and failures to feed.

I would contact the factory first, of course, but I think it is essential that we all understand everything there is to know about the reliability of the R9.  It must always be utterly reliable, otherwise we should know that.

We should all feel free to talk about any problems found with the pistol.  Everyone benefits.

My decision to buy an R9 was based solely upon the fine reviews found here on this board.  I was highly satisfied with my purchase, and am seriously considering buying another.

Bill

Title: Re: Continuation of FRUSTRATED
Post by: Richard S on September 19, 2006, 10:14:30 PM
Tracker:

You're undoubtably right, and my little wife has the same opinion -- but it still "sticks in my craw." There were about thirty seconds in which I had a pretty good idea of what was about to happen.

And that is one of several reasons, all learned in a few other marginal nations, why I now carry a concealed weapon whenever and wherever it is legally permissible to do so.  It is also why I urge all law-abiding citizens to do the same, and to join the NRA, the USCCA, the AKTI, etc., etc., etc.

This is not meant to be any form of braggadocio, because I have friends who have seen much more than I have seen and done in the service of our beloved country, including friends who have died in its service and lie in unmarked graves.  I have been truly fortunate.  But I have seen what happens when despots disarm their populace.  I have seen and smelled the shallow mass graves.  I have been in situations in which only the official seal on a letter from the Army Chief of Staff of a nation no larger than the size of one of our states -- a letter simply confirming an appointment -- saved  me from being beaten, robbed, and possibly maimed or killed by an illiterate soldier manning an unauthorized road block.  

May God continue to bless the United States of America, and may we preserve and strengthen the Second Amendment to our Constitution.
Title: Re: Continuation of FRUSTRATED
Post by: riffraff on September 20, 2006, 12:14:29 AM
Bill,

Thanks for some agreement.
 
It has become clear that some are extrapolating things from my posts that are not ment and also clear that some want the entire topic dropped.  I find this attitude disturbing.  The old timers have heard all about this slide thing before but anyone familiar with messageboards knows that they are ALL cyclical.  You will always get the same topics recycled over and over as new people join the forum and older people leave the forum.

I have only heard good things about Rohrbaugh customer service on this thread and this is a very good thing.  I have not pestered the factory about any of my difficulties but I may have to in the future.

Mike
Title: Re: Continuation of FRUSTRATED
Post by: RA_Bakken on September 20, 2006, 12:40:07 AM
Mike,

To set the record straight, I wasn't reading into your situation, but addressing a general best practice...wasn't targeting you specifically sir.

In private conversation w/ Karl and Eric, it's become obvious that there is MUCH that gets "put out" in various venues and boards that should be dealt with privately, man to manufacturer, if you know what I mean.  Wasn't assuming that's your practice, but I know for a fact that it's sadly all too common.  Some folks stir up a tempest in a teapot...then well down the road, actually call the factory and it's really no big deal at all...and the problem gets fixed straightaway!

I know for a fact there are guys who totally misused their R9, shooting hundreds of rounds in a session (totally against factory advice), then complained loudly to everybody about their results!

I've also noticed a very, um, shall I say it?..."rosey" outlook on many gun boards, with a sort-of distaste for anything that seems to be "negative."  (Kinda strangely mirrors the larger culture's political correctness, eh?)  You sure are correct...not good to sweep anything under the rug at all!  Open free exchange of info and concerns is what we should want.

From many private talks w/ the R Bros, I would say they want to be 'pestered' - though they would not think any of your concerns are pestering, I'm pretty sure.  They are certainly there to field any and all issues...I was just saying that THEY are the best source to field such things, not an "amorphous community of online enthusiasts" as someone once described messageboards.  (Though as far as boards go, this one is the R9s of gun boards!  Hehehe...:-))

All my best,

Rod
Title: Re: Continuation of FRUSTRATED
Post by: tracker on September 20, 2006, 12:53:55 AM
Richard,
What a great testimony and justification you have given to
the 2nd amendment. That amendment gives us the right to
bear arms, but I consider it a distinct privilege to hold a CCW
license and that is one of the many distinctions between those
despot countries and rulers that we enjoy in this country.
Thank you for such clarity in describing the differencies
between us and them. Oddly, many other civilized countries
don't get it.
Title: Re: Continuation of FRUSTRATED
Post by: S.F._Phantom on September 20, 2006, 01:56:02 AM
Spectro,

When someone posts "In private conversation w/ Karl and Eric, it's become obvious that there is MUCH that gets "put out" in various venues and boards that should be dealt with privately, man to manufacturer, if you know what I mean", it makes me wonder about basic education of firearms...  If people don't post ongoing problems, then no one will get educated as to possible dangers.  I have taught firearms training for over 15 years and the last thing I would want to do is cover up a possible problem with any firearm.  The company may stand behind a product, however not informing the public would be negligent.  This forum does just that, it lets us all know about the pros as well as the cons when it comes to the R9S.  Rohrbaugh is a growing company and they must know that there will be positive as well as negative statements made about their product.  
Prior to buying mine, I watched their video.  It insinuated that the R9S is fully functional out to a range of 25 yards, and it is.  It may be designed for close quarters, however it can be deadly at 25 yards.  
 
You have also stated "I know for a fact there are guys who totally misused their R9, shooting hundreds of rounds in a session (totally against factory advice), then complained loudly to everybody about their results!"  As of yet, I have not seen this recommendation or admonishment in any of the Rohrbaugh documents.  I wonder, other than having an extremely sore hand, what should the outcome be?  After competing in PPC, IPSC and SASS matches, I would wonder about any weapon that can't handle 200 rounds of factory ammo in any time span.  

The reason that I have remainded on this forum is to learn, both the positive as well as the negative issues as to our little beasts.  I carry mine all the time, however I want to stay up on its quirks.

 

Title: Re: Continuation of FRUSTRATED
Post by: Michigunner on September 20, 2006, 10:27:19 AM
Richard, Thank you for those outstanding remarks about your experiences.

I also thank God we can be armed to protect ourselves.

We are fortunate to live safely and peacefully, even though we are surrounded by police and military who have weapons in hand.  Generally speaking, we do not have to fear their power.

Bill
Title: Re: Continuation of FRUSTRATED
Post by: riffraff on September 20, 2006, 10:52:08 AM
S.F._Phantom,

You make another good point in your last post.

The literature that comes with the R9's is totally inadequate!
It needs to be rewritten to include all the things that can be found on this board about recomended ammo, cool down, the fact that this gun is designed to be carried a lot but fired a little.  That last part is supposed to be a quote from one of the R bros. that was posted on this board.

Mike
Title: Re: Continuation of FRUSTRATED
Post by: RA_Bakken on September 20, 2006, 10:55:10 AM
AMEN to that brother!  It's a great idea riffraff.
Title: Re: Continuation of FRUSTRATED
Post by: eblackhawk on September 21, 2006, 10:27:37 PM
Quote
Spectro,

When someone posts "In private conversation w/ Karl and Eric, it's become obvious that there is MUCH that gets "put out" in various venues and boards that should be dealt with privately, man to manufacturer, if you know what I mean", it makes me wonder about basic education of firearms...  If people don't post ongoing problems, then no one will get educated as to possible dangers.  I have taught firearms training for over 15 years and the last thing I would want to do is cover up a possible problem with any firearm.  The company may stand behind a product, however not informing the public would be negligent.  This forum does just that, it lets us all know about the pros as well as the cons when it comes to the R9S.  Rohrbaugh is a growing company and they must know that there will be positive as well as negative statements made about their product.  
Prior to buying mine, I watched their video.  It insinuated that the R9S is fully functional out to a range of 25 yards, and it is.  It may be designed for close quarters, however it can be deadly at 25 yards.  
 
You have also stated "I know for a fact there are guys who totally misused their R9, shooting hundreds of rounds in a session (totally against factory advice), then complained loudly to everybody about their results!"  As of yet, I have not seen this recommendation or admonishment in any of the Rohrbaugh documents.  I wonder, other than having an extremely sore hand, what should the outcome be?  After competing in PPC, IPSC and SASS matches, I would wonder about any weapon that can't handle 200 rounds of factory ammo in any time span.  

The reason that I have remainded on this forum is to learn, both the positive as well as the negative issues as to our little beasts.  I carry mine all the time, however I want to stay up on its quirks.

 

Nonsense!  This gun is not meant to be be a "closet queen" but a weapon meant to save your life under the worst possible scenerios!  Other than getting hot, my R9s has performed flawlessly, no matter how many rounds I shoot in a given session.  Keep it clean, keep it lubed and keep it with you...it won't let you down!
                                         Eric
Title: Re: Continuation of FRUSTRATED
Post by: S.F._Phantom on September 22, 2006, 08:50:05 PM
eblackhawk,

Not sure what the Nonsense is about?  I believe that this weapon should be able to shoot just like any other good quality weapon.

If you look in my post, I put quote marks when quoting someone else's view points.
Title: Re: Continuation of FRUSTRATED
Post by: eblackhawk on September 23, 2006, 09:44:03 AM
Quote
eblackhawk,

Not sure what the Nonsense is about?  I believe that this weapon should be able to shoot just like any other good quality weapon.

If you look in my post, I put quote marks when quoting someone else's view points.
The "nonsense" I was referring to was to whoever makes remarks like that, not to you personally.  My point being that any gun purchased should be 100% reliable or it shouldn't be carried!  What good is carrying any gun if you are not 100% sure it will go bang when you need it the most?  I've been fortunate that my R9s has been that reliable!  None of my guns are "safe queens" and I shoot them regularly.  And, of course, I clean and lube them meticulously so they stay that way.
          Eric
Title: Re: Continuation of FRUSTRATED
Post by: S.F._Phantom on September 25, 2006, 12:34:26 PM
Eric,

You hit it right on the nose......

I think most of us feel the same way.  Carrying a weapon that might not function will only get you killed.
Title: Re: Continuation of FRUSTRATED
Post by: Michigunner on September 25, 2006, 04:40:04 PM
Absolutely right on!  The handgun must fire all the time, every time.   It must always be reliable.  Otherwise, it is of no value whatsoever.

I accept that some handguns require a break-in period.

My R9S proved to be 100% reliable.  However, my experience indicated that it must be cleaned and lubed fairly often, even if carried and not fired.

For example, five months between cleanings was not acceptable.  I should have known better to carry a pistol in the pocket for that long.

Bill

Title: Re: Continuation of FRUSTRATED
Post by: RA_Bakken on September 25, 2006, 04:51:12 PM
You're right on the money, Bill.

Keeping track of the little tips and tricks that pertain to each particular handgun is really important.  In the case of the R9, as you say, clean and lube routinely for best reliability.  In the case of my Ruger .357...well, that sucker will fire after being ignored for years!  :-)  (though I still clean and lube it occasionally too...)