The Rohrbaugh Forum

Rohrbaugh Products and Accessories => Gunsmithing or Modifications for your Rohrbaugh => Topic started by: margator on June 19, 2011, 09:46:12 AM

Title: Grip screw wil not come out......
Post by: margator on June 19, 2011, 09:46:12 AM
Think the head is rounded out....can't remove myself. Do I take it to the local shop and entrust it to them or just send it back to the factory? Thx!
Title: Re: Grip screw wil not come out......
Post by: kjtrains on June 19, 2011, 10:06:52 AM
margator.  If you have an easy out, a new screw, and a small soldering iron, you may can do it yourself.  Tracker reminded us of Slater's idea of heating up the screw to soften the loctite.  Then use the easy out to back out the screw.  

If you don't want to tackle this, I would send it back to the factory, unless you do have a very trustworthy gunsmith.  Just my thoughts.
Title: Re: Grip screw wil not come out......
Post by: Z on June 19, 2011, 10:19:47 AM
Excellent advice Ken. I second that.

You may want to purchase a couple of sets of Yankee2500 replacement screws as well.

I had the same problem a while back. I used a torx bit to remove it.
I then purchased a precision HUDY allen driver and have been aok ever since. :)
Title: Re: Grip screw wil not come out......
Post by: Richard S on June 19, 2011, 11:34:16 AM
Margator:

I've been there myself:

http://www.rohrbaughforum.com/YaBB.cgi?board=R9S;action=display;num=1190497569;start=10#10

If you decide to go the "DIY" route, just be sure to use a quality damaged screw remover of the right size and take your time. I would also follow the advice of Tracker and Steve on heating the screw a little with a soldering iron in order to help break the adhesion of any Loctite that may have been applied to the grip screw.

In recent years, I've been using miniature rubber O-rings under the grip screws of my R9. They work for me.

Good luck!
Title: Re: Grip screw wil not come out......
Post by: yankee2500 on June 19, 2011, 11:42:00 AM
I had to remove 3 of the grip screws on my Son in laws pup with a Grabit screw extractor. :o worked like a champ but not for the weak at heart. ;D
  
Title: Re: Grip screw wil not come out......
Post by: margator on June 19, 2011, 12:15:48 PM
i had no problem getting the screws out using the hex ball driver recommended on the forum. I installed new VZ grips using their screws with no problem. I decided to go back to the original Grips that came on the R9 and had them on for awhile. When I tried to remove the grips for a good cleaning I discovered the bad screw. Since i am not mr. Handy I will send back for service. The DIY method leads me to believe things will only get worse! thx 4 ur help!
Title: Re: Grip screw wil not come out......
Post by: kjtrains on June 19, 2011, 03:23:40 PM
Good decision, margator.    :)
Title: Re: Grip screw wil not come out......
Post by: yankee2500 on June 19, 2011, 04:54:21 PM
Quote
i had no problem getting the screws out using the hex ball driver recommended on the forum. I installed new VZ grips using their screws with no problem. I decided to go back to the original Grips that came on the R9 and had them on for awhile. When I tried to remove the grips for a good cleaning I discovered the bad screw. Since i am not mr. Handy I will send back for service. The DIY method leads me to believe things will only get worse! thx 4 ur help!

I have used the Hex ball drivers but prefer the Non Ball type.
   The ball portion of the driver offers less contact surface on the screw with the rounded top and bottom areas of the ball.
Title: Re: Grip screw wil not come out......
Post by: kjtrains on June 20, 2011, 10:27:47 AM
Quote
margator.  If you have an easy out, a new screw, and a small soldering iron, you may can do it yourself.  Tracker reminded us of Slater's idea of heating up the screw to soften the loctite.  Then use the easy out to back out the screw.  

If you don't want to tackle this, I would send it back to the factory, unless you do have a very trustworthy gunsmith.  Just my thoughts.

Quote
Quote
Margator:

I've been there myself:

http://www.rohrbaughforum.com/YaBB.cgi?board=R9S;action=display;num=1190497569;start=10#10

If you decide to go the "DIY" route, just be sure to use a quality damaged screw remover of the right size and take your time. I would also follow the advice of Tracker and Steve on heating the screw a little with a soldering iron in order to help break the adhesion of any Loctite that may have been applied to the grip screw.

In recent years, I've been using miniature rubber O-rings under the grip screws of my R9. They work for me.

Good luck!

Hmmmm!    ;)
Title: Re: Grip screw wil not come out......
Post by: Reinz on June 20, 2011, 06:45:52 PM
I remember Richard's success with the drill going very slowly in reverse.
Title: Re: Grip screw wil not come out......
Post by: Marcion333 on September 12, 2014, 08:41:20 PM
Excellent advice Ken. I second that.

You may want to purchase a couple of sets of Yankee2500 replacement screws as well.

I had the same problem a while back. I used a torx bit to remove it.
I then purchased a precision HUDY allen driver and have been aok ever since. :)

where do you get these replacement screws. i cannot find them online.
Title: Re: Grip screw wil not come out......
Post by: tracker on September 12, 2014, 09:48:27 PM
"yankee2500" had some excellent R9 screws for sale but John hasn't posted here in awhile; you might try e-mailing him at yankee2500@rtmc.net if that address is still valid.
Title: Re: Grip screw wil not come out......
Post by: ECR on February 28, 2015, 09:07:52 PM
This seems like a good place to post this little tip on grip screw removal:

We always had a tough time removing "frozen" grip screws, especially with the extremely small 1/16" Allen head. I don't want to say how many early carbon fiber grip sets I had to eat because I did not know this trick until just a couple of years ago when I phoned Loctite and asked them if they had any advice. . . . . and did they ever!  Here is the best way to remove the grips screws from your R9 pistol:

Take an old school soldering iron, the straight tipped "pencil" type, not the high tech "gun" looking thing. Plug it in and let it heat up for a few minutes. Once it is ready, take it and carefully place it inside the Allen head area of the grip screw with the tip hitting the bottom of the indent where the Allen key goes. Keep it there for about 15 - 20 seconds at the most!. . . . leaving it there longer could damage the grip panel by melting it with the heat from the soldering iron. Put the soldering iron down in a safe place, such as it's holder, and quickly take a fresh 1/16" Allen key, place it in the screw head, "load it up" and the briskly . . . . Twist it with a snap counterclockwise and the screw should spin freely out from the frame. The trick here is simply this. . . . Speaking with a Loctite Tech, he mentions the Loctite cement melts around 300 degrees back into a liquid form, thus releasing it's hold on the screw and the frame. It's that easy and will safe your grip and you from destruction.  Now, go swap those grips for something different with confidence!   8)

Cheers

Eric R.
Title: Re: Grip screw wil not come out......
Post by: tracker on February 28, 2015, 09:13:53 PM
Thanks, Eric; somehow, that pearl of wisdom crept into the Forum some time ago and many of us benefited from it at the time. Reiteration of good tips is always welcome for those who may have just tuned into the program. We didn't have the benefit of the detailed process as you mention it.
Title: Re: Grip screw wil not come out......
Post by: ECR on March 01, 2015, 08:21:33 AM
Good Morning Tracker. . . . Yes, I spoke to Duane about it during the time I was not a member but kept tabs behind the scenes here. I am just looking through the forum now for any topic I may be able to reinforce with the real deal from me, someone who was there and worked on these things from the beginning. It's all good. . . . . . .

See you around the boards.

Eric R.
Title: Re: Grip screw wil not come out......
Post by: Marcion333 on March 01, 2015, 09:43:12 AM
i've not heard this before, thanks for sharing.
Title: Re: Grip screw wil not come out......
Post by: ECR on March 02, 2015, 03:36:58 PM
No problem Marc. . . . My pleasure and more to follow as time progresses.    8)
Title: Re: Grip screw wil not come out......
Post by: MICHPATRIOT on March 29, 2015, 09:41:50 PM
Some soldering irons (pen style) have a set screw that holds the tip to the iron...Replace the tip with a short 1/16 allen wrench piece about 1/2in in length. Heat up the iron with the allen wrench tip installed in the iron. When fully hot insert into the allen screw and then apply torque on the grip screw and when the Loctite gets to the right temp the screw will just unthread..less chance for overheating the screw and melting the grip unnecessarily.
Title: Re: Grip screw wil not come out......
Post by: tracker on March 29, 2015, 10:06:33 PM

That idea sounds like the ultimate refinement on the solder iron/loctite solution. Whichever method one uses to loosen the screws my suggestion is to not use loctite again and check the screws' tightness after range trips or on an occasional basis. I suspect that the factory had to use loctite because of a potential liability problem with loose grips and a possible firing malfunction. Eric may wish to comment on this issue.
Title: Re: Grip screw wil not come out......
Post by: ECR on March 30, 2015, 03:51:23 AM
Frankly tracker, you hit it on the head, to a degree anyway. Without Loctite in place, even after one magazine worth of ammunition through the pistol, those grip screws will begin to loosen somewhat. Put two magazines worth of ammunition through it and they can loosen even more. After several magazines without checking the tightness of the grip screws and they can give you the problem of a dislodged trigger sear bar. Now, keeping in mind that the specific use of this weapon was intended from its inception as a deep concealment, last ditch effort self-protection firearm, it is very unlikely that you would realistically ever be using it for more than a few shoots at best in a situation anyway. By then, the threat would have most likely been resolved to a point where having a full blown arsenal at your bid and call is unwarranted and not necessary. Also, the grip screws will stay in place even without Loctite or something like it for the duration of your encounter anyway.

With that bit of information on the design thought of the R9 now in your possession, yes, that is the reason for the Loctite on the grip screws as most, not all, but most people would simply continue to shoot the gun without checking the tightness of them. Truly one of the Achilles heals of the weapon. However, with tightened screws and carried in a proper holster, it will certainly function without issue for its intended average 2.3 rounds shot during a confrontation. Knowing that you have three times that average with a total of 6 or 7 rounds at your beck and call, depending on how you personally carry the gun, it is more than sufficient for its role as a defensive sidearm in a low risk carry mode.

Now to address the Allen key affixed as the tip of a soldering gun. Although an interesting idea, I prefer the one we used at the shop as instructed by the Loctite service representative I spoke with a few years back about the situation. After you place a straight tipped soldering gun in the recess of the screw for 10 – 15 seconds, the screw gets to around the 300 degree temperature required to melt the glue back into a liquid state. Putting down the soldering gun, placing a fresh Allen key into the screw and undoing the screw while the Loctite has not had time to reset seems safer than “playing around” with a hot tipped Allen key that continues to get hotter and hotter while trying to unscrew the grip screw. I would not look to improve a fix that already is proven to work just fine as originally stated by the manufacturer, that being the Loctite company techs.

Well guys and gals, with all of that said. . . . . I rest my case for KISS. . . . Keep It Simple Silly. Don’t fix what isn’t broke. You’re thinking too hard now. Lol. If you insist on trying the new ides, by all means . . . . . Have fun experimenting with it. Not me though. I’ll just stay with what I know works just fine.   ;-) 
Title: Re: Grip screw wil not come out......
Post by: tracker on March 30, 2015, 11:12:25 AM

Thanks, Eric; I agree with the K.I.S.S. principle and it makes a lot of sense here. Your method worked for me and I am always leery of experimenting with something else.
Title: Re: Grip screw wil not come out......
Post by: ECR on March 30, 2015, 11:33:59 AM
ha ha. . . . I wasn't my method tracker, it was Loctite's method.   ;)
Title: Re: Grip screw wil not come out......
Post by: tracker on March 30, 2015, 01:09:37 PM
 It is interesting that Loctite developed a technique to address and counter the effectiveness of their own product.
Title: Re: Grip screw wil not come out......
Post by: ECR on March 30, 2015, 05:16:24 PM
Well, it is nice to have a way to remove screws that have Loctite on them without damaging the parts. They seem to know what they are doing, thank goodness they shared that little trick with us out here in the field.  ;)
Title: Re: Grip screw wil not come out......
Post by: tracker on March 30, 2015, 06:12:36 PM

I agree, Eric; it was a very helpful tip and much appreciated.
Title: Re: Grip screw wil not come out......
Post by: backupr9 on March 30, 2015, 08:50:15 PM
My experience over the years is that, having had to replace a frame due to a locked and unremovable screw (by the factory in fact) is that it is simply better to avoid Locktite and after each range trip just tighten the dang screws when you clean the pistol.  At that time you can remove the screws and sponge the oil out of the screw holes with a pipe cleaner every so often.  I have and use the Yankee O-rings, but have not been impressed that they do much to prevent the grip screws from coming loose.  Just tighten the screws after each range trip and carry with confidence.
John
Title: Re: Grip screw wil not come out......
Post by: Richard S on March 30, 2015, 08:59:22 PM
I use Loctite to secure the screws on the door knobs of my cabin at Critter Creek - never on any screw for one of my firearms. O-rings ... God bless them.
Title: Re: Grip screw wil not come out......
Post by: MRC on February 12, 2017, 12:59:53 PM
I am reviving this old thread for a purpose.

I have changed grips on 3 or 4 R9's through the years and about 1/3 of the screws would come out with just the wrench.  The others I used a soldering gun as a owned one of those and did not have a soldering iron.

Last week I was re-gripping a R9 and on two of the screws no matter how long I held the soldering gun on them, they would not budge.  Not wanting to strip the screws, I ordered an $11.00 soldering iron.  About 20 or 30 seconds of heat and the screws came out as the loctite had turned to "melted butter".

I have never loctited any screws back in but now I would not be afraid to with the low strength stuff.
Title: Re: Grip screw wil not come out......
Post by: backupr9 on February 12, 2017, 04:13:28 PM
Thanks MRC.  I still go with my old post that echo's ECR's longer advice posting, i.e.: as this is not a range gun, simply clean the weapon and tighten the screws carefully after each range trip.  Mine are invariably loose after I shoot, but forewarned is forarmed.  Loctite is still a disaster waiting an opportunity IMO.  I have heard that some people use clear nail polish to non-permanently lock the screws in place, at least for a while.  I would still not trust that enough to not check the screws after each range trip on a carry piece.
Title: Re: Grip screw wil not come out......
Post by: tracker on February 12, 2017, 07:03:25 PM
I had more problems with too tight rather than too loose. The soldering iron solved the issue but I installed the O-rings and skipped the Loctite. Having the proper tool, like a Hudy screwdriver, will also give one less stress.
Title: Re: Grip screw wil not come out......
Post by: MRC on February 12, 2017, 07:14:13 PM
I tried the o-rings with some success.  The right grip was loose after shooting two magazines instead of the usual one.

I would not be afraid of using the purple loctite now(low strength for small fasteners).  I was amazed at how much more heat the iron put on the the screws compared to the gun I was using.
Title: Re: Grip screw wil not come out......
Post by: kevinqjhps on April 01, 2017, 07:46:02 PM
At the machine shop when we had frozen screws/bolts we heated paraffin and let it drip down onto and  creep into the threads. It will come out easy as pie.
Title: Re: Grip screw wil not come out......
Post by: backupr9 on April 02, 2017, 08:43:54 AM
Good trick, thanks Kev!