Author Topic: R-9s and the J-Frame Snubby  (Read 17495 times)

Offline DDGator

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R-9s and the J-Frame Snubby
« on: August 15, 2004, 01:51:24 PM »
My previous carry was usually a Kel-Tec P-3AT about all the time and a S&W 342 (Airlite j-frame .38 special) as my "big gun" when possible.

Now with the R-9, I am not sure where the J-frame fits in my carry rotation.

Let me preface this by saying that I love revolvers.  I shoot a S&W 625 in IPSC and prefer wheelguns for a lot of tasks.  And yet, the R-9 is smaller in every dimension and packs more firepower (6+1 of 9mm v. 5 .38 special).  The R-9 has similar sights and a better trigger pull.  Reloading speed is comparable on both, but the edge clearly goes to the R-9.

The only things in favor of the snub are a few ounces (not many) and PERHAPS a reliability factor.  I am not one to say that wheelguns are 100%.  Especially with these light guns, bullet pull can be a factor.  I have had revolvers stop on me.  Mechanically, however, they should be somewhat superior.

Here is a comparision picture of the two (gently) on top of each other. I tried to line up the trigger guards so you could see how the other dimensions compare.

Anyone else struggling with this comparision?  

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Offline DDGator

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Re: R-9s and the J-Frame Snubby
« Reply #1 on: August 15, 2004, 01:52:14 PM »
And a side-by-side comparision:

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Offline Ben S

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Re: R-9s and the J-Frame Snubby
« Reply #2 on: August 15, 2004, 02:46:52 PM »
I too am a revolver man, I shoot a 625 in competion as well, collect Smith and Wessons and Freedom Arms, for years my carry piece has been a smith 042 (uncatologued) which as a collector I probably should have stashed but didn't.
 I agree with your estimation on weight and portability, however as for the reliability, I have had no where near the reliability that some of the members here have had with their r9s, not that its a bad gun but a revolver it is not.
 Now before I get a bunch of requests to elaborate on the failures of the r9s, I am still testing my current piece and feel I owe it to Eric and Karl to review the results before posting them on the web, but i'm not about to retire my J frame.

Offline pocketman

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Re: R-9s and the J-Frame Snubby
« Reply #3 on: August 15, 2004, 03:25:59 PM »
No comparision for me, The R9S is hands down the best all around pocket carry piece I have had in 15yrs of pocketcarry of probally 30+ different piece's.

Over the years after tring the latest wonder pocket guns I alway's went back to an airweight J and a seecamp 32.

I thought I finally found the holly grail of pocketpiece's when I got my long awaited seecamp 380, of which I will never sell and is a dynamite pocket piece in its own right,  but when I got the R9S its just....well perfect!

Offline R9SCarry

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Re: R-9s and the J-Frame Snubby
« Reply #4 on: August 15, 2004, 03:40:16 PM »
Duane and Ben - I too am very much in the revo camp .... also finding my 625 and moonclips a superb combination.  When it comes to carry I also favor my SP-101 as fave even if way heavier and a bit longer than, say, the 342 category.  I also as some will have seen .. am a revo ''hand cannon'' freak!

I'll join Pocketman tho in saying that (whilst I have not had anything like his number of pocket pieces) - the R9 has a special place.  Unique in fact.

Just for extra comparison - here is my R9s over the SP-101 .. apples and oranges somewhat and not overlaid like Duane's pic.  The triggers are notionally in line and so the difference is way obvious.

The SP of course is for me never pocket - always OWB 3.30  belt slide.  It is first choice these days, and a Comp 1 speedloader is usually in some pocket somewhere.

However, the pup resides so well in the pocket that it is becoming ever more the BUG, plus - of late whilst in skimpy clothing, even my sole and thus primary carry.  I feel still very confident even with just that on board.


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Offline BillinPittsburgh

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Re: R-9s and the J-Frame Snubby
« Reply #5 on: August 15, 2004, 04:27:35 PM »
Revolvers take neglect better than semiautos, but semiautos take abuse better than revolvers.

Because the revolver is human-powered, it is generally less likely to fail due to less than adequate cleaning or pocket debris.  However, the many small parts that make it work are subject to wear and breakage.

Semiautos depend on a balance of slide weight, recoil spring strength, magazine spring strength, and cartridge energy to function.  Add some crud-induced friction, and you have problems.  However, the parts taking the abuse are bigger and less delicate.

For the past several years, I have put an average of about 7,000 rounds per year downrange through various guns.  The vast majority of that total is through semiautos, but my revolvers go back to the factory for service more often.

Based on the above, the J-frame could be superior for:

1)  Coat pocket carry without a holster.  With a shrouded hammer, you could even fire through a coat pocket without risk of jamming the gun or catching coat fabric between the hammer and rest of the gun.

2)  Ankle carry (where it will be exposed to all kinds of dirt and water.

3)  At least for now, you can get a Crimson Trace Lasergrip for the S&W but not the Rohrbaugh, although I am not really a big fan of lasers (what if you and your companion have identical dots?).

Other than that, the R-9 is the closest thing I have seen yet to making the .38 snub obsolete.
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Offline R9SCarry

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Re: R-9s and the J-Frame Snubby
« Reply #6 on: August 15, 2004, 04:37:20 PM »
Bill - you make some very valid points.  However, and I forgot to mention in last post - one major thing for me with revo's and pockets .. is not so much weight as width.  An inevitable aspect of having a cylinder .. being the gun's widest area.  Certainly when it comes to width profile, the R9 is just amazing.

Quote
[size=13] (what if you and your companion have identical dots?)[/size]

Haha!  Hmmmm .... I guess in the most remote of cases this could apply ...... but even so I love my CT grips and I think if they were ''in use'' even with those of another ...... the natural feedback from one's own gun movement would probably suffice to register one dot as ''your own''!!  Hard to tell tho without testing it out. :P

With auto's I think my major concern is more with feed reliablity than actual gun function mechanics per se.  This is why of course we all (should) have established before use for carry, that ammunition Brand X is right for the gun.  With revo, generally this is so much less of an issue.
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Offline FJC

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Re: R-9s and the J-Frame Snubby
« Reply #7 on: August 16, 2004, 01:32:40 PM »
Similar situation for me - when I'm not carrying a full-sized pistol, I'm either carrying my P-3AT or my S&W 340PD.  I think once my R9s arrives and I've certified it for carry, it may be my only pocket carry pistol.

I do like the 340pd for winter-coat-pocket-carry, but that's a pretty specialty-niche.

I seriously may end up selling both the P-3AT and 340PD in the near future...
--Frank C. (FJC)

Offline DDGator

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Re: R-9s and the J-Frame Snubby
« Reply #8 on: August 16, 2004, 01:50:45 PM »
It also makes me wonder -- what is the next step up in armament that is justified by the increased size and weight?

A Kahr is out -- not sufficiently more firepower.  A Glock 26 or Kel-Tec P-11 is not a lot more firepower although slightly more shootable (maybe?).  I am now thinking that my "big gun" has to be a Glock 19 or similar to give me significantly more power than the R-9.

Good problem to have!

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Offline FJC

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Re: R-9s and the J-Frame Snubby
« Reply #9 on: August 16, 2004, 07:00:25 PM »
That thought occurred to me, too.  I often carry a SIG P239, which is 8+1 rounds of 9mm.

I can easily see carrying it to feel like a chore compared to the R9s, for only 2 more rounds of 9mm!

Now, the P226 with 16 rounds and a much bigger sight radius...or the Colt Commander .45 with 9 rounds...
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Offline shooterjb

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Re: R-9s and the J-Frame Snubby
« Reply #10 on: August 16, 2004, 10:02:54 PM »
Hi Duane,

The new Para-Ordnance Warthog looks like a good alternative for a heavier gun. I have a Para-Ordnance P-10 Limited and a C.6.45 LDA Para-Carry. I had originally thought about using one of them for my primary but I have gotten really partial to my Kahr P40 Covert and will probably stick with it for a primary gun. It is accurate, light, the Corbon .40 cal. 135 gr. JHPs average 1289 fps out of it, I shoot it very well, and I have some excellant leather for it.

Frank

Offline DDGator

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R-9s and the J-Frame Snubby
« Reply #11 on: August 16, 2004, 10:48:21 PM »
This topic has been re-created (with a different slant) in the "Revolvers" forum on The High Road:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=97202

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Offline shelb

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Re: R-9s and the J-Frame Snubby
« Reply #12 on: August 16, 2004, 11:03:06 PM »
I think a picture from the top comparing the thickness of a revolver and a R9S (hint, hint  :)) might indicate why the R9S resides in my pocket.

Offline jimacp

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Re: R-9s and the J-Frame Snubby
« Reply #13 on: August 17, 2004, 12:04:07 AM »
I know that one person's experience is merely anecdotal and of little value, but since some people on the High Road thread referenced above insist that the j frame is more reliable than the R9s, or any semi, here is my experience:

several months ago bought S&W 340. First range session, first cylinder, the Corbon .357 rounds backed out from bullet  pull on round number 3. Gun was totally out of commission...cylinder then actually fell off while trying to clear...the cylinder stop milled into the frame was too short.
Sent it to S&W and it was repaired, but anyone who says revolvers are totally reliable is just plain wrong. Also bought S&W 329 .44 magnum.(Ti-SC N frame). Again, on first range session, bullet pull totally shut gun down. It took me several MINUTES to get gun working again.  I'm not knocking S&W here...it was just my experience.....I still love J frames.. but the above did actually happen.

OTOH, have now fired OVER 500 rounds through R9s...not one failure or bobble of any kind...what does this prove...nothing...I had a bad experience with j frame, but like it now that it has been fixed. However, I am more confident in my particular R9s than I am in my particular j frame, or ANY Ti-SC frame J frame. Bullet pull is a REAL problem with those in my limited experience.  

I do agree with BillinPittsburg that Crimson Trace grips on j frame are very useful.  It is amazing how well they work on that gun, again, at least for me. Although I have pretty much gone with R9s for everyday carry, I still carry j frame with crimson trace (plus my R9s) if I know I will be in dark environment and I feel particulary vulnerable.  Choices are nice.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2004, 09:15:19 AM by jimacp »

Offline R9SCarry

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Re: R-9s and the J-Frame Snubby
« Reply #14 on: August 17, 2004, 04:38:42 AM »
Quote
[size=13]I think a picture from the top comparing the thickness of a revolver and a R9S (hint, hint  ) might indicate why the R9S resides in my pocket.[/size]

Oh Ok ..... hint taken ..... and pic speaks for itself!! :P


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