Author Topic: Range Report part 1  (Read 6179 times)

Offline Calvin Cooledge

  • Expert
  • ***
  • Posts: 196
Re: Range Report part 1
« Reply #15 on: March 25, 2006, 06:30:24 PM »
Quote

Thank you for your comments. The ammo was Sellier & Bellot 115GR, Full Metal Jacket, 9 mm Luger.

Wow, does that bring back some memories. When I first got my R9S, I bought some Sellier & Beloit, 115GR FMJ, just as you did. I had some of the Speer Gold Dot hollow points on order and needed something to put through that bad monster. I also put other rounds through it, all with some success or failure. It wasn't till I got that GDHP (from Ammoman.com) that I decided that it was the round for me and this gun. It was relatively cheap in bulk, so I decided to practice with what I carried in the gun. The GDHP did not SOLVE the problem, it just worked a bit better. Now this smacks in the face of what I have learned about ammo, and hardball vs. hollow points. Technically, the face of the hp is flat, and that should not be more reliable than the hardball FMJ. But for me it is.

I cannot emphasize the importance of grip with this gun. At first, it bit me hard, and I wondered if I would be able to control it in an intense situation. On top of that, I have a bony protrusion at the 'crotch' of my thumb and index finger, a double whammy. Now that I have a checkered rubber sleeve, I can shoot it with WAY more accuracy, comfort and confidence. I'm sorry, the carbon fiber is strong and looks cool, but my hand has a tough time with its smooth surface.
I also had great luck with the grip tape. (It also looks way cooler than the rubber sleeve!)

So, grip+proper ammo+adjustment from the factory=one happy camper.
I hope!

Steve

"I'm spreading my loyalty around..." - Calvin Cooledge

Offline theirishguard

  • Grand Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 2707
  • In Memoriam: 1941 to 2013
    • irishguardfirearmsltd.com
Re: Range Report part 1
« Reply #16 on: March 25, 2006, 07:02:56 PM »
Steve, I believe the GDHP is shorter in length than the hard ball.
Tom
Tom Watson, DVC , Quis Separabit ,  Who dares wins, Utrinque Paratus

Offline Calvin Cooledge

  • Expert
  • ***
  • Posts: 196
Feeding frenzy...Was:..Re: Range Report part 1
« Reply #17 on: March 25, 2006, 08:58:42 PM »
Quote
Steve, I believe the GDHP is shorter in length than the hard ball.
Tom

Hi Tom,
Does this mean that a shorter round is more reliable, feeding-wise? As you can tell, I'm not a ballistics expert (nor do I play one on TV;^), but when I was in the realm of the .45ACP, the wad cutters and semi-wad cutters were supposedly the hardest rounds to chamber. And they have flat noses, no?

Is the hollowpoint not the same as a flat point, wrt feeding? Enquiring minds need to know...

TIA!

Steve

"I'm spreading my loyalty around..." - Calvin Cooledge

Offline R9SCarry

  • Grand Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 2657
  • Aut viam inveniam aut faciam
Re: Range Report part 1
« Reply #18 on: March 25, 2006, 09:37:10 PM »
Steve -

There are different ways of looking at length difference I think.  I am not sure a shorter round is by default better for feeding - it could be argued that it might ''tip up'' sooner on way to chamber.  A shorter round also IMO makes for a small increase in tendency for keyholing, due to increased ''jump'' across the already and necessary feebore.

The longer round, as long as it does not foul in the magazine could I think be the better feeder - I forget my length comparisons right now tho have a pic some where.  Ahh - see below.

The Blazer at 1.124 is actually about identical with a Speer Gold Dot - probably IMO the longest OAL - and a round I find chambers well.  The others went thru my R9 OK tho.





Re the HP profile - in effect an HP is an FMJ with the nose cut off and so has I reckon enough of the roundness remaining to enable feeding almost on a par with FMJ's.  Full wadcutters and even semiwad's - these have real sharp corners or ledges and certainly can be very problematic, even with revo speedloads.  I have used and shot truncated cone .45acp cast bullets which will feed but still with some element of ''iffyness'' at times.

JHP's are pretty much the limit with semi ammo - and I doubt full wad's or SWC's have any real place at all.
Chris - R9S
Guns don't kill people - people kill people.
R9 FAQ Site
NRA Life member and Certified Instructor.

Offline Brenden

  • Grand Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1747
  • Farmie!!!
Re: Range Report part 1
« Reply #19 on: March 25, 2006, 11:01:28 PM »
Wiles,glioma,

Welcome to the forum!!!

For both of you,I am sorry that your pups are not feeding properly..

Mine have ALL been fed properly and digest as they should!! ;)

WWB has always been fine with me,never tryed the S&B stuff-but I won't shoot it in my AR,so I will not shoot it in my self defense piece..

Please try GD 115s or Win STHPs..

These are THE recommened food for the pup.. ;D

Again,Welcome and I wish you better results with the pups..

Brenden

NRA Life Patron Member
GOA
Molon Labe

Offline Brenden

  • Grand Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1747
  • Farmie!!!
Re: Range Report part 1
« Reply #20 on: March 25, 2006, 11:06:00 PM »
GSlinger,
Welcome to the forum also..

Did not mean to miss you!! ;)

Gotta love the pup. ;D

Brenden
« Last Edit: March 25, 2006, 11:06:51 PM by Brenden »
NRA Life Patron Member
GOA
Molon Labe

Offline Calvin Cooledge

  • Expert
  • ***
  • Posts: 196
New and improved? Or old and worse. You decide...
« Reply #21 on: March 26, 2006, 12:10:42 AM »
Thanks, Chris for the clear reply and (clear;^) pix!
I guess the barrel of the gun 'senses' a hollowpoint to
be a rounded ball;^) I know I would;^)

All seriousness aside, I know the dynamics of such a machine
is quite complex, and as we all see, everything must work just
right. I often wonder why a gun, compared to, say, a car, is any
harder to make perfect. It's not that cars are perfect, but that
THEY perform their job, with equally complicated dynamics, with
aplomb. Think about an airbag. Wow! That's complicated. Or an engine, which must work time and again. Although I have to admit,
we are relying on faith, as we can't test the airbags to see if they
are working;^) We just know they do. Or do we?

So, to come full circle with my own reasoning, the first iterations of anything may be more prone to  glitches and failures than subsequent improved versions. (In fact, Consumer Reports did a story about that very thing with first year model cars and later improved versions.) I know that the Brothers 'R' must be continuously thinking of how they can make their gun better. It seems to be their mission...

Steve

Quote
Steve -

There are different ways of looking at length difference I think.  I am not sure a shorter round is by default better for feeding - it could be argued that it might ''tip up'' sooner on way to chamber.  A shorter round also IMO makes for a small increase in tendency for keyholing, due to increased ''jump'' across the already and necessary feebore.

The longer round, as long as it does not foul in the magazine could I think be the better feeder - I forget my length comparisons right now tho have a pic some where.
"I'm spreading my loyalty around..." - Calvin Cooledge

Offline Calvin Cooledge

  • Expert
  • ***
  • Posts: 196
What's in a name?...
« Reply #22 on: March 26, 2006, 12:14:27 AM »
Quote
I just returned from the range...

Hi Gli,
Are you a doctor? Researcher? What's with the medical moniker?

Moniker Lewinsky
"I'm spreading my loyalty around..." - Calvin Cooledge

Offline Calvin Cooledge

  • Expert
  • ***
  • Posts: 196
Re: What's in a name?...
« Reply #23 on: March 26, 2006, 12:16:23 AM »
It's a pitiful man who quotes himself in email.

Please ignore that last post.
I don't know what got into me...

Steve

Quote
I just returned from the range...

Hi Gli,
Are you a doctor? Researcher? What's with the medical moniker?

Moniker Lewinsky
"I'm spreading my loyalty around..." - Calvin Cooledge

Offline glioma

  • New Member
  • *
  • Posts: 27
Re: What's in a name?...
« Reply #24 on: April 15, 2006, 12:50:50 AM »
Quote
Hi Gli,
Are you a doctor? Researcher? What's with the medical moniker?

Moniker Lewinsky

Yes, I'm a doc in Arizona. After I wrote about my failure to fire rate and jamming, I shipped the R9s back to the factory. I haven't heard anything from them and it's been about two weeks. Anyone have any estimate as to the usual turn around time?
« Last Edit: April 15, 2006, 12:52:02 AM by glioma »

Offline MountainMan

  • Grand Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 978
  • MountainMan Dave
Re: Range Report part 1
« Reply #25 on: April 15, 2006, 01:55:14 AM »
Glioma

Hopefully the R9 isn't shy of doctors.  I bought two R9 holsters from Sawbones - a neurologist from Utah after the factory bought the R9 back.

Give Rohrbaugh a call and let us know how it comes out.
"Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but the moments that take our breath away..."


Offline wiles

  • New Member
  • *
  • Posts: 7
much happier now
« Reply #26 on: May 05, 2006, 11:58:17 AM »
My R-9s was shipped back on Wednesday and I got it to the range for a short workout yesterday.  After all the disappointment in February and March, I finally finished off a range session with a smile on my face.

The pistol came back without any specific explanation about what had been wrong with it, but the invoice itemized some replacement parts that suggested it wasn't a minor issue:  slide, hammer, 2 magazines, outer spring cap (what is that?  part of the recoil assembly?), and grip screws (I had burred one of them pretty badly and it was nice of them to replace them on warranty).

I wiped it down, super lubed it, and took it to the range.  I put 6+1 of Speer GDHP through it, then 6+1 of Winchester silvertip hp, and finally two magazines of Winchester white box 115gr hardball.  It didn't have a single failure through 28 rounds, and my groups at 7 yards ranged from 3" to 4" depending on my pace.  I'm certain that the groups can be much tighter once I've learned the trigger (I'm spoiled on SA, LEM, and "safe action" triggers).

Given its history, this pistol will get several more workouts like this before I can carry it with confidence, but it's off to a good start.  They seem to have worked some magic at the factory.  I'll let you know if I still feel the same way after a few more sessions.

Offline R9SCarry

  • Grand Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 2657
  • Aut viam inveniam aut faciam
Re: Range Report part 1
« Reply #27 on: May 05, 2006, 12:20:20 PM »
Wiles - that is very good to hear.  

Outer spring cap probably yes - the front cap into which the large spring goes, with open coil.

I'd guess they would replace anything that was remotely suspect to insure you receive a top notch gun back to you.  Sounds so far like they have succeeded and it is digesting all you put thru.  Thx for posting about it.
Chris - R9S
Guns don't kill people - people kill people.
R9 FAQ Site
NRA Life member and Certified Instructor.

Offline Michigunner

  • Grand Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1534
Re: Range Report part 1
« Reply #28 on: May 05, 2006, 12:40:41 PM »
 Wiles, glioma, and GSlinger:

Welcome to the forum.  Your informative posts are much appreciated.

I hope you will come back often.

Bill

Offline glioma

  • New Member
  • *
  • Posts: 27
Re: Range Report part 1
« Reply #29 on: May 07, 2006, 08:29:41 PM »
I thought I would give a follow up to my previous posts. My R9 was returned from the factory after almost three weeks. I had called and was told there were some parts that were out of specification, but the invoice enlcosed with the gun only lists a magazine, ejector spring, and hammer.

Anyway, I took it to the range today and shot 40 rounds of Speer Gold Dot 115gr. There were zero failures to fire. The only problem was that with every magazine, the fifth round jammed on feed. I verified this by shooting 3 round magazines, and the feed mechanism jammed every time after the first shot. After about 30 rounds, the next 3 magazines with 3 rounds each fired perfectly. This may be a magazine problem, but I did not have the extra magazine with me to check out. I'll have to do that on a later day. I'm certainly happy not to have any failures to fire, however.