Author Topic: Range Report part 1  (Read 6177 times)

Offline Michigunner

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Re: Range Report part 1
« Reply #30 on: May 07, 2006, 09:29:38 PM »
I hope the second magazine takes care of the problem.  It's a bummer when a new pistol acts up.

Bill

Offline MountainMan

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Re: Range Report part 1
« Reply #31 on: May 07, 2006, 09:33:18 PM »
I'm guessing the mag also.
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Offline Richard S

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Re: Range Report part 1
« Reply #32 on: May 07, 2006, 11:19:54 PM »
I am an unapologetic semi-auto fan.  Most of the problems with semi-autos can be traced to the magazines.  A pistol worth thousands of dollars can be reduced to the utility of a simple rock because of a faulty $35 magazine.  

The small things matter . . . .

For The Want Of A Nail

For the want of a nail, the shoe was lost;
For the want of the shoe, the horse was lost;
For the want of the horse, the rider was lost;
For the want of a rider, the battle was lost;
For the want of the battle, the kingdom was lost;
All for the want of a nail.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2006, 11:21:50 PM by Richard_S »
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Offline harrydog

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Re: Range Report part 1
« Reply #33 on: May 08, 2006, 07:16:20 AM »
Quote
 Most of the problems with semi-autos can be traced to the magazines.  A pistol worth thousands of dollars can be reduced to the utility of a simple rock because of a faulty $35 magazine.  

[/center]
And yet it's so common to hear people complain that $35 is too much to pay for a magazine.

Offline Aglifter

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Re: Range Report part 1
« Reply #34 on: May 08, 2006, 11:14:57 AM »
Personally, if I paid $35 for a magazine, and it didn't work, I'd be upset, however, Rbros mags seem to be very well made -- I'm not happy about having to pay $26 for my XD mags, when some of them won't slide in properly, but so far, they've all fed properly -- I'll find out on the 20th -- my 2nd IDPA shoot...
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Offline wiles

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Another follow-up report  
« Reply #35 on: June 11, 2006, 04:14:04 PM »
A month after getting the R9 back from the factory and nearly 200 rounds later, I’m not nearly as elated about the reliability as after that first re-test on May 4th.  It might have just been another fluke that it ran 4 failure-free magazines through the pistol, or maybe there was something about the factory tuning that worked for one trip to the range but then went back out of whack.  Since coming back from the factory, it’s averaging slightly more than one failure for each magazine I run through it.  I’ve put the pistol in a dozen other hands to confirm that it’s not just me.  In order to eliminate most of the variables people tend to blame malfunctions on, I’ve gotten into the routine of only running 115 grain silvertips through it and cleaning and lubing with superlube as directed by the factory after every two-magazine test.  (not 1, not 3 – but exactly 2 magazines each trip to the range.)  Since coming back from the factory, I haven’t seen a single stove pipe or failure to eject.  Every single failure has been one or even two bullets pointing straight up out of the magazine – apparently having missed the feed ramp entirely.

I’m still obviously not confident enough to carry this thing, but somewhat hopeful that after breaking in, it might get better.  In the meantime, I picked up a Kahr PM9 for carry purposes a few weeks ago.  That pistol has fed about 800 rounds of a wide variety of  standard and +P loads pushing bullets ranging from hardball to Glaser, MagSafe, Cor-Bon, HydraShoks, Golden Saber, and Gold Dots.  All without a single failure.  And the four-rail design doesn’t seem to mind dirt.

The Kahr wins by a landslide in reliability and power (ability to run every +P ammo I’ve gotten my hands on), but is still noticeably larger in some pockets and more difficult to present smoothly.  The Rohrbaugh wins in material quality and groups much better for me on the rare occasion I can fire 5 consecutive shots without a jam.  Yes, I’m being very patient – even stubborn -- so the pup hasn’t been kicked to the curb yet, but instead follows me to the range twice a week for a tiny workout hoping that some day it might be broken in enough to shake the curse it carries.  In the meantime, all my pockets are getting stretched out by this big, fat and heavy Kahr.  I’ll probably send the R9 back to the factory again if it doesn’t improve before the second or third recoil spring wears out – but the cost of overnight shipping and 6 week wait each time is probably what will eventually break the camels back and make me lose all interest in giving this pistol any more chances.  If it still isn’t working when I get to 1000 rounds ($500 worth of silvertips), it will probably be buried forever in the back of my safe – my conscience would never let me resell a pistol that has proven itself this unreliable.

Pointers from others on the forum whose guns shot themselves reliable leave me hopeful that it’s just a matter of time and patience and wear.  Though it seems counter-intuitive, I’m going to try more one-handed shooting in the next few weeks to see if that helps.  And I’ll throw a couple of boxes of GDHP back into the mix just in case this particular pistol is finicky about the widely recommended silvertips.  And of course, I’ll experiment with a tighter grip and a looser grip and a higher grip and a lower grip.  Any other suggestions?  Positive and helpful suggestions, please.  No more knocking the guys who aren’t having great experiences with your favorite gun.

I’ll give another follow up after a few more weeks.

Offline sslater

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Re: Range Report part 1
« Reply #36 on: June 11, 2006, 06:35:58 PM »
wiles,
I didn't notice in your other posts that the recoil spring has been changed yet.  You're in the round count range for that.  The recoil spring in my R9 had shortened up two coils compared to a new one at only 200 rounds.  (The manufacturer's recommendation is to change springs at 250 rounds.)

I "exercise" that new spring before firing the gun by hand-racking the slide a couple of dozen times.   Reliability has been pretty good since then.

Also, someone posted recently that Rohrbaugh said the magazine's feed lip opening at the front should be 0.320".  That area is tough to measure accurately unless you are really good with calipers or have gage pins.  I've found that the shank of a 5/16" drill (0.3125 diameter) gives you a good quick check.  If it slides easily thru, the lips are close to 0.320".  I suppose you could use the drill shank and a feeler gage if you want a more accurate reading.

Hope this helps,
Steve

BTW:  I've switched to 115 gr. Winchester Silvertips.  They're noticeably shorter & "pointier" than the Gold Dots I've been using.

Offline wiles

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Re: Range Report part 1
« Reply #37 on: June 11, 2006, 11:44:00 PM »
sslater -- thanks for the pointer.  I try to stay on top of the forum messages, but I must have missed that post.  My caliper isn't exactly a high quality instrument, but it does have a vernier scale, so I checked both mags.  To the naked eye the lips appear to be parallel, but I'm reading 41/128ths along most of the length, narrowing a hair to 5/16th at the very front tips.  Both magazines measure exactly the same along the lips.  It seems so close to the spec you mention that I'm not likely to do any bending right away, but I'll keep that on my list of things to eventually try.  And if I do have to send the pistol back again, I'll be sure to measure how the factory leaves it after tuning.

I did however see a post (probably yours?) about changing out the spring and flexing the new one some.  I put in spring #2 about 70 rounds ago, so roughly 1/3rd of my poor post-factory experience has been with that change.  I didn't think to compare the lengths of the old and new, but I will compare the two the next time I have the pistol apart.  That reminds me -- I should order spring number 3 soon.  ;)

If this was an overly tight 1911, I'd be all over the rails with jeweler's rouge by now.  So far I've been hesitant to tackle this pistol, even with a fine polish.  There's an entire section in this forum on modifications I'm not up-to-date on... and searching isn't helping.  Can anybody tell me how the aluminum and stainless steel holds up to lapping?

Thanks again!  Keep those ideas coming!

Offline R9SCarry

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Re: Range Report part 1
« Reply #38 on: June 12, 2006, 10:51:04 PM »
wiles - I'd say a positive NO to even considering any lapping!!

The tolerances are tight and for a reason - added to which any attempt at lapping on dissimilar hardness materials would be IMO catastrophic!!
Chris - R9S
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Offline harrydog

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Re: Range Report part 1
« Reply #39 on: June 13, 2006, 08:06:30 AM »
Quote
I "exercise" that new spring before firing the gun by hand-racking the slide a couple of dozen times.   Reliability has been pretty good since then.

What do you mean by "pretty good"? My R9 reliability has been what some might call pretty good, but it's not even close to being 100% reliable so far. For a carry gun pretty good doesn't cut it in my opinion.

Offline sslater

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Re: Range Report part 1
« Reply #40 on: June 13, 2006, 11:33:19 AM »
Harrydog,
+1 on your reliabilty statement.  I'm giving my R9S a lot of leeway because it's easy to carry.  I know guys like Clint Smith say a carry piece should be "comforting", not necessarily "comfortable" to carry, but I'm just not big enough to pack full size firearms in warm weather.

"Pretty good" to me meant that I got two stovepipes (empty case sticking up in ejection port) on the last round in the magazine with GDHP 115 gr. ammo. Being a NAA Guardian owner, that doesn't bother me much.  I just drop the empty mag, slap in a fresh one, rack the slide with gun rotated sideways, & keep firing.

I've since switched to Winchester Silver Tips, which fiunctioned flawlessly in all four of my magazines.

BTW:  Did you ever notice that the gun shop never seems to have the ammo you want to buy?
When I was looking for GDHP, nobody in town had them.  Now I want to switch to Silver Tips, and all they have is GDHP!  :P  

Steve

Offline wiles

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Re: Range Report part 1
« Reply #41 on: February 17, 2007, 03:43:55 PM »
Well, considering it's going on a year since I bought this pistol, I figured it was time to quit ignoring it and pulled it out of the back of my safe, dusted it off, cleaned it up, re-superlubed it, put in a replacement spring, and shelled out for some silvertips.  I took it out for a workout by a local group I shoot with, and experienced all the same trouble that made me retire it to the safe in the first place.  Barely 2 or 3 rounds will go through without a hangup, double feed, whatever you call it.  It didn't matter who was shooting it -- from the most experienced shootist to the burliest -- nobody could make it run.

So I'm back to the same problem as before.  I don't have enough mean in me to dump this lemon on some unsuspecting fool, and nobody who knows about the gun is willing to offer more than $200 for the pos.  Do I throw more good money after bad and ship it back to them for another stab at "tuning" it?  I think it was something like $80 or $90 to ship it the first time.  Or do I hide it in the back of my safe again and hope to forget about it until I'm old, retired, and desperate enough for the money to sell it "as is" to some stranger?

Offline theirishguard

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Re: Range Report part 1
« Reply #42 on: February 17, 2007, 04:29:33 PM »
I would take a breath, and send it back to Rohrbaugh. Call them first and tell Maria that this is the second time to send it back and can they help with shipping.   Tom
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Offline MountainMan

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Re: Range Report part 1
« Reply #43 on: February 17, 2007, 06:38:24 PM »
wiles

When you said replaced spring did you mean the new stronger magazine spring.  Seems to have solved many FTF problems - this is the only one the company sends out now with their guns.

Also you can tell that you have been away for awhile.  Rohrbaugh no longer recommends superlube but any good  gun oil.

I agree with Tom - if your mag spring is the new longer model then call them and send it back.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2007, 06:40:33 PM by MountainMan »
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Offline Guinnessdog

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Re: Range Report part 1
« Reply #44 on: February 21, 2007, 07:50:17 PM »
Wow, its like deja vu all over again. Wiles, your issues mirror mine, including the full auto fire. Sent my pup back twice, which got to be real expensive to ship overnight. Finally ended up getting a Kahr PM9, which I've put about 600 rounds through without a single malfunction of any kind.

However, I have not given up on the pup. You still can't beat it for quick presentation from a pocket holster, and I've done some things that I find increase reliability tremendously. They are:

1. My gun likes Remington Golden Sabre 124 gr. HPs. Looking at the bullet shape, it is much more rounded than the Gold Dot (which my pup hates and chokes on every time), so it feeds much more like hardball.

2. Switch to Tetragun grease rather than Superlube. I know the factory recommends Superlube, but my particular gun works better with the Tetragun.

3. At the range, I fire 2 magazines full, then let the gun cool while I do some other shooting. After the gun cools for 5 to 10 minutes, I fire another 2 mags. I keep repeating this until I've shot all I care to. This seems to either give my hand enough time to recover or keep the gun from getting too hot, or both. By doing this, I've gotten more than 80 rounds through it without a problem. In the past that would have been unthinkable.

My next step is to replace the mag springs with the new stronger ones. I just ordered some today, so with any luck that will completely solve the pup's behavior problems. Wish me luck!