Holster rake?

[rtw]

I see on some holster sites that custom holster makers want to know the degree of "rake" one desires in a OWB holster. What is this and what do people specify and why?

Thanks.

Dick

[K-Man]

Dick:

The "rake" is actually the "cant" of the holster, normally a forward tilt.  Rake is really the motion used to pull the gun from the holster - somewhat of a forward sweeping motion.  The most common request is for the FBI cant (about 15-20 degrees forward tilt).  Some people want more, some want less.  I've even had some people get very specific in the degree of cant, i.e., 17 or 23.  Some folks have wanted a slight backward tilt when worn on their strong side.  That way they can wear it as a cross-draw on their weak side if they so choose.

A holster made with a cant does a couple of things.  If it's an IWB style, it is much more comfortable to wear.  In either case, it brings the butt of the gun closer into the body, thus aiding in the concealment.  You also gain some speed in the draw because it's generally quicker to bring the gun out in a forward motion rather than straight up and down, thus bringing the gun on target quicker.  

It can become a big frustration between a customer and a holster-maker when trying to determine what is the best amount of cant.  For example, the IWB holster I make with the adjustable kydex clips has, for the most part, relieved that issue.  It allows the customer to place the gun/holster at the cant/depth where it's the easiest and quickest to retrieve the gun when needed/wanted.  

I had a customer order an IWB holster for the Ruger P345 not too long ago.  Due to a medical condition, he's gained some weight in the mid-section, and has not yet purchased larger clothing that will allow him to carry an IWB.  So he took the kydex clips off the front of the holster and attached them to the back of the holster.  He's now wearing it as an OWB holster.  I thought that was fairly innovative and it saved him from having to buy an OWB holster.  

[rtw]

Thank you sir.

Dick

[DDGator]

K-Man's holster cant tutorial above is excellent and all true...  

I will add the personal caveat that I don't think an FBI-style forward cant is any faster -- although lots of people will say it is and that is the generally accepted belief.

If you think about it though, the barrel actually has to rotate farther to come into a forward facing firing position from a forward cant than from a straight drop holster.  With modern schools teaching a 4 or 5 count draw stroke with the first movement toward a retention position, a straight drop holster would seem most appropriate.

Of course, its a matter of personal preference and if the cant make the gun more comfortable to you to wear -- that is probably more important.  Ultimatley, you will have to try it yourself and see what you like.

[R9SCarry]

I think the rotation aspect Duane is a very minor point - but agree, cant is not for all perhaps.

My prime reason for electing to have cant is the bonus regarding concealment.  Kevin's work-of-art rig for my SIG is to me just about ideal ... perhaps around 12º to 15º - and this suits the gun beautifully.  It allows for the base of the mag to barely project rearwards enough to print - at same time keeping grips snug such that my forearm and elbow can check for position.  Vertical would for me be too clumsy re position tho I doubt I'd feel my draw to be any the worse.

The ''Jim Burke'' copy rig Kevin made for me is probably nearer 20º cant - that is for the SP-101 and is excellent because the gun nestles in even more than I could achieve with the SIG at same angle - in fact the base of grips is almost over the muzzle, if you drop a vertical line.

So for me - concealment takes top spot!  Meaning cant!

If it helps Dick - I can post pics again to illustrate this.

[DDGator]

Chris,

I agree with you -- the cant can be very useful for comfort/concealment.  My only point -- perhaps made too strongly -- was for new pistol toters not to make a decision about using an FBI cant just because of the perceived speed of presentation.

Like everything else, its an individual choice and depends a lot on the weapon, how carried, and the application for which it is used.

[rtw]

Thanks. I am considering a OWB or IWB for the R9, if for no other reason than to try out that mode of carry. Remember, I am new to this concealed carry stuff and am just getting used to having the R9 or Seecamp with me in a pocket. I haven't decided between OWB and IWB yet.

Any thoughts? Or should I just get one of each? Not having used either before makes this cant business confusing. I guess I'd lean toward concealability first, comfort second.

Thanks Chris. it may help to see the photos with their degree of cant.

Dick

[BillinPittsburgh]

My own experience indicates that a greater rake - up to the point where the butt of the grip and the muzzle are on the same vertical line - generally reduces the horizontal space taken up by the gun and thereby aides concealment.  However, the more rake, the more you will have to bend your wrist to draw.  A vertical cant allows for little or no bending of the wrist, aiding a faster draw.

For this reason, I have always liked very moderate butt-forward cants.  Very few holster makers use too little forward cant, but many use too much.

When I placed an order with Matt Del Fatti, we talked about the competing considerations, and he suggested a 15 degree cant.  After our conversation, I came to realize that my most preferred holsters were very close to this, although I often carry my Glock 26 in a vertical IWB holster.  Therefore, I'll support Matt's 15 degree suggestion as a really good choice.

[R9SCarry]

Dick - here are some pics for you - not good ones because self taken and always have to use boring old flash ... but should give some idea.

First is my R9 in Kevin's small belt slide .. this is probably about 10º or a little over - suits the gun just fine.  Meant to add too - there is another belt slot at front so - easy to fit it with steeper cant if I want. Ever so easy to hide... and saves any drag in a pocket.  T-shirt draped over does just fine.


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Then we have my SP-101 in the original Jim Burke - as you see plenty of cant and for the SP this is just great - more like 20º but for a small revo this is just great for me - it is so snug.  This rig is pretty well sweat stained!!



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Next we have Kevins very attractive Burke copy he did for me - same gun, pretty much same cant altho this being more ''side-on'' shot almost looks more - still about 20º tho and notice how grips are pretty much over muzzle - very compact and free from printing and draw is slick as you'd wish.  I have just noticed - see belt?  This is not level and it makes cant look exaggerated.



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Lastly - my present main carry - the SIG 226 - in Kevin's superb piece of work.  Notice here cant is much more around the ''std'' 15º or so.  I'd not want this to be much more because of the gun's profile - it does tho allow it to sit very well.... nice compromize.



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Many folks Dick do use and like IWB - but it ain't for me!  I do have more padding than once but - find I do not like the pressure of gun and rig inside my pants - bony contact - plus just cannot seem to adapt to larger waist size needed for pants.  Oh and sweat problems too - major issue!

So - IMO - if a good choice made with a pancake, belt slide type of hi-ride rig, then for me anyways, concealment is no problem at all, and I am pretty comfortable. Remember -  I carry all waking hours.

[rtw]

Thanks Chris!

is the snap on the R9's holster a good thing?

[R9SCarry]

I am not a fan usually of retension straps Dick but for the R9 I do think it is useful and like it.  See how little gun is actually down in the rig?  That does I think make it a lot easier to fall out than a longer and heavier piece.  More snatchable even.

It takes a little practice to get quick access - but only requires really a flick of the thumb as the hand goes to a draw hold - no biggie!