The Rohrbaugh Forum
Rohrbaugh Products and Accessories => Rohrbaugh R9 (all variations) => Topic started by: yankee2500 on June 25, 2009, 04:55:11 PM
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I just sent the pup off to Robar for a full NP3 treatment (frame , slide, internals and two mags) they say turn around time is four to six weeks. I will carry the LCP in the vacant pocket while I wait for the pup to return. Pic's and a range report will be posted after we are reunited.
John
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Excellent! What is the cost?
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Sounds good! Looking forward to pics and report! :) :)
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That sounds like a worthy venture; I don't know the price through
Rohrbaugh but the cost from Robar is $285 for the complete pistol
and 1 magazine. They don't specify make, model, etc..
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Robar has a show special still running until the end of June 15% off. So the cost was $285 and $20 for the extra mag. after the discount $259.25 plus shipping both ways it will be about $325.
John
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Sounds like money well spent; an all expenses paid vacation for your R9 and he comes home relaxed and tanned.
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That is a good price and if that's what someone wants, go for it. Will cost more next month.
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Sweet! I've been thinking about the same treatment on one of mine ever since that picture of one from the shot show. Cant wait to hear how it goes.
Corey
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Four more days to save 15%! :D :D
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John:
That sounds like a plan! I'll be looking forward to seeing the photographs of your "newly groomed pup."
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I thought I would check the price of getting the front and backstraps stippled while the pup was at the groomers, so I called to get a price on the work $160 each (http://i413.photobucket.com/albums/pp216/yankee2500/eek1.gif) Needless to say the pup will be returning home unstippled.
John
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3M tape works great: front, back, and sides: $1.00
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I thought I would check the price of getting the front and backstraps stippled while the pup was at the groomers, so I called to get a price on the work $160 each (http://i413.photobucket.com/albums/pp216/yankee2500/eek1.gif) Needless to say the pup will be returning home unstippled.
John
Thats VERY high for stippling work. You can get it checkered cheaper than that.
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Concur with Corey as to high cost. You would think that the guy would give you preferential treatment for stippling, given the fact that he already had the gun and adding to work would by like "bundling" with a communication subscriber.
Unfortunately, it appears that the guy, instead, gave you an untenable number. Did you try to point this out to the gunsmith and negotiate a better number?
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This is Robar I was talking to and they have set prices on there web site, the backstrap or front on any gun is $160. My thought was on the R9 there was less area than on a double stack 1911 and may be cheaper. Only shows how wrong you can be sometimes.
John
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This is Robar I was talking to and they have set prices on there web site, the backstrap or front on any gun is $160. My thought was on the R9 there was less area than on a double stack 1911 and may be cheaper. Only shows how wrong you can be sometimes.
John
You are absolutely right. While I was in town I went to Robar in person last year to have 2 guns worked on and completely refinished.
There is definite "attitude" there, but in a profiessional sort of way.
The finish is superb. But they did not get the sights done the way I requested.
Reinz
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In my experience as a professional buyer a published price list matters; particularly when the end user is the US Military. However, it could never hurt to ask.
These are troubled times and the buyer has more power than he may realize. John's timing, however, was not good as they already had the R9 when he initiated his inquiry as to stipling.
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My take on "attitude" in "troubled times" is "that dog
won't hunt."
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My take on "attitude" in "troubled times" is "that dog
won't hunt."
I agree totally!
As it can definitely affect repeat business.
As a business owner in this same industry, I hope I never carry that same "attitude" ever.
Will I return to Robar with more work to be done? Maybe, if so it will probalbly be refinish only, and then communication will be overkill.
Reinz
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I remember that when I called Tripp Research to discuss some work on a Heckler & Koch P7, the owner of the business, Virgil Tripp, answered the telephone on the second ring and spent nearly 30 minutes discussing with me the various options available to accomplish what I wanted to have done. That's the only time I've experienced customer service in this area which even approaches that offered by Rohrbaugh. Why the personnel of some of these companies seem to have adopted what my grandson might call a "'tude" escapes me.
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In my experience as a professional buyer a published price list matters; particularly when the end user is the US Military. However, it could never hurt to ask.
These are troubled times and the buyer has more power than he may realize. John's timing, however, was not good as they already had the R9 when he initiated his inquiry as to stipling.
When I called them to ask about doing the stipple work the gun was not there yet but was on the way.
I don't have a problem with them quoting me there published price, but I think it is high for any pistol, not just the R9.
But it's there business and they can set the prices as they see fit. I take it as a sign that I didn't need stippling ;D
John
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That is interesting about Virgil Tripp because I was thinking
the same thing about him earlier. I met him several years ago
at my gunsmith's house with his brother. He took two of my guns,
an Hk P7-M8 and a BHP, back to Alpine with him and refinished
them in a couple of weeks. He is a first class gentleman and a
superb craftsman.
i was sorry to hear that he stopped refinishing guns.
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My story: When the Glock 36 (single stack .45) came out in the 1990's the advertisement read "available now". It was not and I moved heaven and earth to get one.
I faxed Gaston Glock and was referred to Glock National Sales manager in Georgia. I pestered them for a awhile and they took the "available now" off their advertising.
Finally, I was the first on my block to get one and the Glock 36 remains one of my favorite guns. Pretty? NO. But accurate and effective? YES.
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I agree on the Glock 36.
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Thank you tracker. The Glock 36 is distinguished by the absence of a picitinny rail which I think looks stupid. Yes, I know, gun owners like to follow LEO and military but I think the picitinny rail spoils the lines on the underside of the frame and barrel.
If it were an OPTION, not a problem. I would avoid it and order guns without the picitinny rail. Howevr, it is NOT an option (you know, like obama's government) and far too many guns (including kel-tecs with microscopic barrel lengths) feature this contraption.
For night useage I prefer my anodized black aluminum LED flashlight (weak hand over strong hand). And, when day breaks, my guns are not stained with that stupid rail!
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I agree! I don't like the rail either. It definitely should be an option.
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I bought a Sig P220 a year ago. I had owned an earlier version and had sold it. The P220, in my view, is one of the best double action standard size pistols out there.
After I bought the gun I could not get beyond the picitinny rail and I sold it. Now I would like to buy a decent used P220 without the picitinny rail.
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I bought a Sig P220 a year ago. I had owned an earlier version and had sold it. The P220, in my view, is one of the best double action standard size pistols out there.
After I bought the gun I could not get beyond the picitinny rail and I sold it. Now I would like to buy a decent used P220 without the picitinny rail.
ACP:
Here's one in .45 ACP -- expensive . . . but beautiful. 8)
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=133672099
Or this one in 9mm, more of a utilitarian type:
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=133511978#PIC
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This P220 is my flavor and shoots like a dream and as a ccw I feel at peace with the world and all is well.
(http://www.sigsauer.com/upFiles/catalog/product/P220-elite-stain-detail-L.jpg)
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=133691403
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Now, that is a beautiful piece; I own two earlier Sigs and love
them, too.
As far as the Rail feature, I am not fond of its looks but have
decided to have one "night gun", a Glock 19, with an Insight XTI
Procyon hung underneath. It improves the looks considerably,
especially with 125 lumens and a strobe function that is blinding
to those on the other end. It is very simple to use and i feel very
comfortable with it at home at night. It never has to see the light
of day because there are others without rails to serve that function.
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I called my custom gun shop today to get pricing on putting checkering on the backstrap and front of the grip and he qouted me 100.00-150.00 and will give me an exact number when a bring it in and sees exactly what I want.
Yankee,
I am looking forward to seeing your pictures of "Best of Show"
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This P220 is my flavor and shoots like a dream and as a ccw I feel at peace with the world and all is well.
(http://www.sigsauer.com/upFiles/catalog/product/P220-elite-stain-detail-L.jpg)
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=133691403
That is one good looking pistol. :) :)
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Back to the original concern: Consider Brownell's friction tape as a replacement for the expensive stipling. I saw an article in a 2008 Gun Digest that shows this stuff being used on a compact 1911.
As to photographs from several of you, I thank you. The one that Richard posted (sans picitinny rail) is compelling, albeit expensive. The stainless gun, with beautiful wood grips, is great except it has the picitinny rail and I would avoid it for that reason.
There is no right or wrong answer here. However, if only for aesthetic reasons, I stand by my opposition to picitinny rails.
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Back to the original concern: Consider Brownell's friction tape as a replacement for the expensive stipling. I saw an article in a 2008 Gun Digest that shows this stuff being used on a compact 1911.
As to photographs from several of you, I thank you. The one that Richard posted (sans picitinny rail) is compelling, albeit expensive. The stainless gun, with beautiful wood grips, is great except it has the picitinny rail and I would avoid it for that reason.
There is no right or wrong answer here. However, if only for aesthetic reasons, I stand by my opposition to picitinny rails.
Yep! I continue to agree. The pistol looks great, but would rather it didn't have the rail.
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I don't think you can get the full stainless frame and slide and the DA/SA without the rail. I used to love the rail but decided to use a more powerful flashlight in the weak hand rather than attached to my gun. I've always view the accessories as the most ugly thing you could do to a beautiful gun. The rail itself I can take it or leave it, I don't use it. I think the little added weight helps the recoil but I may be crazy....this is one of the reasons I like stainless and the weight it adds. I got the little brother to the P220 in the stainless elite as well, the P226, and again this thing shoots like a dream.
(http://www.sigsauer.com/upFiles/catalog/product/P226-elite-st-detail-L.jpg)
I wish there would be a stainless R9, while some would gripe about the weight, for me it would be welcome, among other advantages.
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I agree on the rail issue also, but if someone wants to give me one I can get past the rail issue ;D (it is a fine looking gun)
John
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I am an advocate of grip tape but I prefer 3M tape available
from almost any Ace Hardware store. The "Insta Grip" tape
from Brownells is $19.25 for a 1" x 12" piece. It looks the same
to me as the 3M tape but but at 8 to 10 times the price.
The 3M tape is all over my R9 and I wouldn't leave home
without it. It is easily softened with a piece of sandpaper.
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I would like to see a picture of this tape on your gun. Does it need occasionaly replacement?
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Fat Boy
Your comments are reasonable and you appear to agree as to my statement regarding picitinny rail. Your stainless gun (particularly with wood grips) is stunning but I do not like the rail.
Richard's post from gunbroker showed a reasonably priced (used) P220, without picitinny rail, but it was a 9MM. Though rare, I want the .45ACP.
As to tracker's comments, I have no experience with Brownell's or 3M but the cost benefit over Robar stippling is extraordinary.
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ACP,
If your really looking for a 45 cal with no rail then look no more. If this was stainless I would own it and have considered buying one anyway just because of what it is and the good price. Look at the P245, new in case.....I don't know how you get any better than this. If I hadn't just bought the Stealth R9, one of these would be in transit to me now. Other than my P220 (which I love) this would be the ultimate full size but tight ccw. I have almost convinced myself to go buy this now, DANG, DANG, DANG!
http://www.dansammo.com/firearms.asp
(http://www.dansammo.com/images/inv/f006a.jpg)
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ACP,
If you like this gun and want the wood grips I know where to point you to some custom ones that are out of this world.
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Fat Boy
Thank you for your recommendations. I am familiar with the P245 but do not like the gun. To me, it is unimaginative and looks like the engineering department got out a tape measure and decided to use the dremel approach for "redesign" of the P220.
Sigs, (in my opinion), are great guns but are bulky. The P232 (.380) is size efficient but I am not a fan of the caliber and don't like that design either.
You will never get an argument from me as to Sig not being great guns. I only wish they would come up with a good compact design in a potent caliber.
Meantime, I will stay with my R9 until the R45 comes out. You know, THE GUN WE ALL WANT.
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We need it.
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Absolutely, tracker. Any progress from you insiders?
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Still looking forward to information as well.
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No news on my front but the 45 ammo is in shorter supply
than the 9mm. Some of my friends just don't go to the range
much anymore with their 45s.
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Bad news made worse. I have high test hollow points for home defense but no "stock" .45 ammo to shoot
This has been one of the coldest, rainiest summers in New England that anyone can recall and it has detracted from outdoor range time. (Global warming?) Just as well considering you can't find ammo to shoot anyway.
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Several years ago, when 45's were selling for $9.95 for a box of 50, I stocked up and still have plenty left including a box of Black Talons for home defense. Those were the days!
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Richard's post from gunbroker showed a reasonably priced (used) P220, without picitinny rail, but it was a 9MM. Though rare, I want the .45ACP.
ACP
Two more popped up:
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=133515130#PIC
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=133587318
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Many thanks, Richard, for sustaining my interest. LOVE the gun absent the picitinny rail. Slap wood grips on the railless P220 and I would carry it anywhere.
However, I am trying to avoid gunbroker. If I can find one in my native state I can avoid all the hassle of mailing funds, transfer to my FFL, et al. (I have already initiated a search for an old P220 in my state).
The k kote P220 is my choice of the two and appears more reasonably priced than the other one. However, according to tracker, there is no .45 ammo available!
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ACP:
It certainly is tough to find good .45 ACP these days. However, if you have any interest in the round, Midway USA currently has in stock some Black Hills .45 ACP 200 Grain Match Semi-Wadcutters (Box of 50 for $39.99). Everything is either out or on back order.
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=836199
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I said that .45 ammo is in shorter supply than .9mm,
at least in my area. However, I suspect that the same
relative shortage is widespread. I remember one string
where Richard found a box of .45 Golden Saber that was
supposed to be held back but found its way to the shelf,
and Richard heard a vocal display from the clerk in protest
after it was sold out from under him.
.380 ammo is virtually non-existent; .38 special and .357 is
not very plentiful either.
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Despite the reality of the ammo shortage I feel as though I am being played if I clamor for ammunition, particularly at these prices.
This may not be going away soon but I would rather shoot less, much the same as I am spending less in this down economy.
How about this doomsday scenario: Ammo as currency!
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I'm in full accord with your first two statements and sincerely
hope that we don't approach anything like ammo for barter or
currency.
Supply and demand has to seek an equilibrium at some point
on the ammo issue if we all cut back as you are doing. It has
been my limited observation that there is a reduction of ammo
usage on the civilian front. Increased government control and/or
military demand is the wild card and are the partial drivers of this
madness, or, at least, the perception of it.
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I did find a box of 50 Winchester 9mm 115 gn. jacketed hollowpoints white box today at our local gun shop; not cheap.
The clerk at our local Walmart told me that people know when they get their deliveries and come in early and buy all they have.
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Tracker's comments are "spot on" as they relate to market forces. Gun owners, gobbling up ammo as it arrives at wal mart, is not unlike oil speculation which drives up prices.
I do not imagine you can gauge this metric but I wonder how much of this "shortage" is real vs. driven by gun owner's behavior?
Aren't we getting out of Iraq? Shouldn't military useage be diminishing?
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I'm in full accord with your first two statements and sincerely
hope that we don't approach anything like ammo for barter or
currency.
Supply and demand has to seek an equilibrium at some point
on the ammo issue if we all cut back as you are doing. It has
been my limited observation that there is a reduction of ammo
usage on the civilian front. Increased government control and/or
military demand is the wild card and are the partial drivers of this
madness, or, at least, the perception of it.
I think the perceiving factor is the real thing. The thoughts of increased government control is scaring alot of gun owners into hording much more ammo then they normally would.
Our local gun shop had several boxes of 124 gn Gold Dots on his shelf today. They are still there. I didn't need them.
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Psychology makes the world turn; the fear, hope, and greed
curve is at work in all markets.
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That is very true.
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Absolutely agree.
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The ammo shortage has even touched LEOs.
Miami - A fugitive gunman accused of killing a Florida sheriff's deputy was shot 68 times by SWAT team officers who found him hiding in the woods, according to post-mortem results. Police fired 110 shots at Angilo Freeland, 27, the target of a massive manhunt in central Florida after the fatal shooting of Polk county sheriff's deputy Matt Williams on Thursday.
"That's all the bullets we had, or we would have shot him more," said Polk county sheriff Grady Judd to the Orlando Sentinel newspaper.
Judd said Williams was "executed" after Freeland was pulled over in a routine traffic stop on Thursday. Another deputy was wounded and a police dog killed. Williams, 39, was shot eight times - one bullet fired at close range behind the deputy's right ear and another in his right temple, according to post-mortem results released on Saturday by the sheriff's office.
John
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Yankee
This is a riveting story with a sad beginning and a happy ending, by which is meant death of the bad guy. It's a lucky thing this took place in Florida rather than NJ or NY.
If so, the press in NJ or NY would have gotten a hold of it and criticized the police for brutality! This is not exageration. In NJ, if you shoot a bad guy who has entered your house, with intent to rob and/or injure you and yours, you are more than likely going to be prosecuted if forensics reveal that bad guy attempted to flee when encountered with you and your gun.
Is this not insane? A greater burden is placed upon the law abiding citizen than the bad guy who initiates the events by illegal entry into you domicile!
"Castle States" like Texas and Florida get it right.
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Agreed, burden of proof on the homeowner? Ridiculous.
Glad I live in FL
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And in Tennessee:
TCA 39-11-611. Self-defense. —
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(b) (1) Notwithstanding § 39-17-1322, a person who is not engaged in unlawful activity and is in a place where the person has a right to be has no duty to retreat before threatening or using force against another person when and to the degree the person reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to protect against the other's use or attempted use of unlawful force.
(2) Notwithstanding § 39-17-1322, a person who is not engaged in unlawful activity and is in a place where the person has a right to be has no duty to retreat before threatening or using force intended or likely to cause death or serious bodily injury, if:
(A) The person has a reasonable belief that there is an imminent danger of death or serious bodily injury;
(B) The danger creating the belief of imminent death or serious bodily injury is real, or honestly believed to be real at the time; and
(C) The belief of danger is founded upon reasonable grounds.
(c) Any person using force intended or likely to cause death or serious bodily injury within a residence, business, dwelling or vehicle is presumed to have held a reasonable belief of imminent death or serious bodily injury to self, family, a member of the household or a person visiting as an invited guest, when that force is used against another person, who unlawfully and forcibly enters or has unlawfully and forcibly entered the residence, business, dwelling or vehicle, and the person using defensive force knew or had reason to believe that an unlawful and forcible entry occurred.
TCA 39-17-1322. Defenses. —
A person shall not be charged with or convicted of a violation under this part [governing the use of weapons] if the person possessed, displayed or employed a handgun in justifiable self-defense or in justifiable defense of another during the commission of a crime in which that person or the other person defended was a victim.
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Leave it to Richard to provide cool/factual details. Well done, as always.
When I joined the forum in 2005 I was a bitter guy stuck in NJ. When I lost my job I spent 2 years care giving to my widower father; a WWII officer. He was a handfull but he was my father. When he passed away I saw to his estate as Executor and fulfilled a lfelong dream of moving to a gun friendly state.
I am middle aged; young enough to cherish, covet and behave with gratitude toward my right to carry that I have FINALLY enjoyed in the past two years. But, those of you, (young and old), have no idea how oppressive it is living in a state that seeks to deny you of your gun rights and exalts "the rights of the criminal".
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ACP:
Your father was one of what has aptly been described as "The Greatest Generation." Because of the sacrifices of that generation, we today are not living under the tyranny of the Third Reich or the Empire of Japan.
I salute him. Requiescat in pacem.
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Thank you, Richard. I think my generation (Baby Boomer) should have a book written entitled "The Worst Generation"
Politicians scream Education and the Children(!) Really? If they are priorities (and they should be) why can't Johnny and Jill spell? Why are they taught that America is bad? Why do they "enhance" math and science grades by reducing standards?
Balzac writes in his novel "Cousin Pons", in 1847, "We have even gotten to the point of discovering social ills in order to form societies to cure them!" Literary satire in France in mid 19th century? Yes, but what country does this remind you of in the 21st century?
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Don't be too hard on the boomers. Not many receive
the clarion call that summoned the greatest generation.
That is a tough act to follow, especially since they answered
it so admirably.
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Concur, tracker. Hey, I am a Boomer. What I might have stated better is that the left leaning Baby Boomers, who dominate education and political doctrine, have got it so wrong for the reasons mentined above.
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Now we are defining the real problem.
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yankee2500, have you gotten your pup back from the groomer yet?
I am eagerly awaiting your report of how it functions. I'm considering having both my Kimber and my R9s refinished by Robar.
Please keep us posted! Thanks.
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I spoke with Robar today, they said it was ready to go into the plating and should be back in another week to two.
John
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Progress!
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Well with the pup returning in a week or two I thought I needed something else to wait for so I called Rafter S Gunleather today and ordered an OWB holster in honey elephant with dark peanut alligator trim. Turn around time is eight to twelve weeks, not bad compared to some holster makers twenty plus weeks and some even longer.
John
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"Honey elephant"? "Dark peanut alligator"? Are you going to eat this holster or use it for your R9?
The holster I remember was Mitch Rosen. I was living in NJ at the time where holsters are moot because there is no such thing as CCW. Anyway, he makes a great holster but leadtime delivery was something like 20 weeks.
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Well with the pup returning in a week or two I thought I needed something else to wait for so I called Rafter S Gunleather today and ordered an OWB holster in honey elephant with dark peanut alligator trim. Turn around time is eight to twelve weeks, not bad compared to some holster makers twenty plus weeks and some even longer.
John
John. That's got to be some holster!
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Concur. I was busting about the honey elephant. What I really want to know is where is a picture of this holster?
When I conducted a websearch for the honey elephant company, I only found their address.
Is there a website where I can see the holster that John mentioned?
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http://www.raftersgunleather.com/Holsters.htm
I have a few Mitch Rosen holsters and his work is very nice. The Pocket Softie for my R9 took about 6 weeks.
Haugen Leather is also very nice but his delivery is more like 6 months. Really good work but you're going to wait for it. His website looks plain but his product is anything but. I like shark - really tough and lasts forever.
http://www.haugenhandgunleather.com/
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"Honey elephant"? "Dark peanut alligator"? Are you going to eat this holster or use it for your R9?
It does sound like a good snack, maybe I should have got the honey elephant and the Cognac Alligator to wash it down with.
John
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Absolutely!
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John
You have GREAT taste. Thanks to Daninva for furnishing the web connection. I saved it to my favorites. Just what I needed; another incentive to spend money.
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http://www.raftersgunleather.com/Holsters.htm
I have a few Mitch Rosen holsters and his work is very nice. The Pocket Softie for my R9 took about 6 weeks.
Haugen Leather is also very nice but his delivery is more like 6 months. Really good work but you're going to wait for it. His website looks plain but his product is anything but. I like shark - really tough and lasts forever.
http://www.haugenhandgunleather.com/
Dan. Thanks for the post. I, too, have saved the web sites to my favorites..
John. Just looked at the elephant holster. Really nice!
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Yes thanks Dan, I should have put the link up with the OP, I like the fact that they only do an one OWB and one IWB holster with a couple options, paddle and shirt gaurd. I may call on Monday and add a mag pouch.
John
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The OWB holster is exactly the type of holster I ordered from Mitch Rosen about 12 years ago. As I have said, there is no CCW in NJ but I just wanted to own a quality holster. I wore in my house only.
I emailed the company and told them of my interest. I asked them to affirm leadtime. Also, I am a little confused as to pricing. Kind of like a Chinese food menu.
John: Please advise the prices you paid or send me PM.
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I paid $151.80 total, $142.50 for the elephant holster with the gator trim and $9.30 shipping and ins.
John
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PM sent before I read this post. Again, I will use your numbers as a template when I speak with holster maker.
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Yankee,
Thanks very much for the holster info, I will be ordering the alligator holster. I still can't wait to see your gun back, please post a lot of pictures and description as you see it. Did Robar disassemble the gun or did you have to do that? Wilsons wants me to pull it apart and reassemble it in order to use their coating, I don't know if I want to. Anybody have experience in a total break down of the R9?
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FB
I strongly advise against going the route of disassembly. Wilson is trying to divert responsibility and liability.
If you are paying good money to have this work performed, they should put you on their payroll or perform disassembly and assembly as would any other company.
Yankee has inspired me and I am trying to get my two tone R9 turned into a one tone. Metaloy has a good turn around time but they will not work with aluminum the way I want them to.
I am trying to avoid Robar because of their leadtime and attitude, although they are the Cadillac of the metal finishing industry.
Does anybody know why Rohrbaugh switched to two tone? Doesn't it seem odd that many of us are chasing the original Farmingdale look via pursuit of CF grips and metal finishing?
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If the original Farmingdale look were two tone we might hold that
look in higher esteem than the single color; although, you are
on record as preferring single color guns. Generally though, that
which is more elusive is more desirable.
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Well, I guess you told me.
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ACP,
Thanks for the advise. I thought it to be very unusual for a gun refinisher not to be able to assemble guns and force the client to do that.
Has anyone tried to do this though?
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Robar is doing all the work, if I had to take it apart and send all the parts to them and count on getting them all returned for me to reassemble, they would not have gotten my business. One of the sellinng points for me with the Robar finish is the lube quality it offers the ease of cleaning and the extended gun life they claim because of the reduced wear.
I like the two tone look in some guns and one tone in others, but think the Rohrbaughs look good both ways.
John
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I once pulled an AR apart, tagged each piece with my name and address, boxed it up and sent it out for Dura Coat. Took maybe 30 minutes to take it apart and put it back together. Dura Coat is not bad but it's just paint.
Wilson Armor Tuff is a really good coating that will probably outlast you. For $270 it's not that expensive considering it's a lifetime coating, and it's tough! You'll have to remove the slide, barrel, grips, and a few other small pieces. Tag each piece (or bag the small pieces with your name) and send it all to Wilson Combat.
As you can tell I'm a big fan of Armor Tuff. I have a rifle that's going to Wilson later this year. I was going to buy a regular 'ol R9S and do what you're doing - send it out for Armor Tuff. But when I called Tom and he said he could get a Special Forces sooner rather than later... I took the hit and bought the R9S already Armor Tuff coated. Looking back - I could have saved $300 by following my original plan. Either way - nice gun and nice coating.
Molybdenum disulphide has a compressive strength of over 450,000 psi. Teflon compressive strength is only 375 psi. I don't know Robar and I'm not certain why they say Teflon adds lubricity and extends the weapons life. Any force in excess of 375 psi will just tear right through the Teflon.
However I did notice their Roguard product is a molybdenum disulphide-based coating which appears to be very similar to Armor Tuff. That's the stuff. Their NP3 is nickel and Teflon - probably not the stuff (in my opinion). Robar looks like a good company so I don't think you can go wrong.
It'll be interesting to see how these different coatings look and perform. I like experimentation!
:)
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Being that the NP3 fiinish comes with a lifetime guarantee.
(NP3 is guaranteed against corrosion, peeling or flaking for the lifetime of the firearm.) and Rohrbaugh has chosen it for one of there highend models I guess it's good enough for me, and I did not want a black finish like the Roguard.
John
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I am really looking for an all satin black finish on every part so I may end up having to go with the Roguard finish from Robar if Wilson just simply won't do the take down for me. I have also been looking into TiAlN but I am not certain if that is a steel only application because I want the whole gun done complete. Here one link to this coating http://www.pistolsmith.com/viewtopic.php?t=21842&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
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I don't have a resolution to convert my R9 into a one tone but I did order the holster. My goal is to make my R9 look like that gun on gunbroker (for $1795.00) with the added benefit of having carbon fiber grips.
tracker makes a good point as to why we want what is elusive. However, he was polite enough to point out that I am consistent.
I have never liked two tone guns. Do I want metal finishing for practical reasons? Sure, but looks matter to me too.
Is there ever a justification for two tone? Sure; when you have G10 grips, why would you not attempt to hide them? But, when you have carbon fiber grips, why in the world would you want a frame that absorbs their luster?
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All in good sport, ACP.
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Whoa...this just in: there are three (3) bids for that $1795.00 Robar R9 on gunbroker. Don't know if they are shadow bids or genuine. All I have to do is keep my fingers off that bid icon.
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tracker
"all in good sport". What does that mean?
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It means "just kidding" as you have said before. We have similar dry
wits that are frequently not understood or appreciated.
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Whoa...this just in: there are three (3) bids for that $1795.00 Robar R9 on gunbroker. Don't know if they are shadow bids or genuine. All I have to do is keep my fingers off that bid icon.
If there are three bids on it, and the starting bid was $1795
why is the current bid still $1795 and the Minimum Bid $1,820.00 still ? I am the high bidder on the last R9s on the page at $805, I don't expect to get it for that but would take it for $805 ;D.
John
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What's to prevent a regular R9 from receiving a Robar or Wilson finish and being resold as a factory original. For the premium these upgrades are going for I would hope for documentation or better yet an SF 005 serial number for a Special Forces R9.
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If you look at the pics in that ad you will see the box says
R9s RR, I have no idea if there is any paperwork with the gun that also states it is a Robar - Rohrbaugh. Looks like it is also has Eric's initials on the box.
John
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tracker - I get it.
As to the Robar @ $1795.00. What is a reasonable price for this gun? My guess is that the sum would be a normal R9 + Robar finish + Hogue grips.
Wouldn't $1500 be a more reasonable price? Not to worry; I am still looking for a place to send my R9 to charm school so I can get the one tone R9 I covet and I refuse to bid on the gunbroker Robar R9.
However, it is only fair to say that the overpriced R9 on gunbroker is exactly the look I want for my own gun.
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"However, it is only fair to say that the overpriced R9 on gunbroker is exactly the look I want for my own gun."
I believe $1,795.00 is the retail for this model and it has been said a number of times that the only difference is the Robar finish, this is incorrect. If you see the gun you know right away that the gun has been loved on more by the addition of a polished trigger, grip screws, magazine, hammer, ejector and maybe more. And I don't think it is that easy to put a price on that. I personally believe the RR model should command more of a price increase than the Special Forces which to me only seemed to have the wilson Armor Tuff finish. This was one of my main frustrations in selection a R9, there just doesn't seem to be enough information about what went into these top models to command the price, IMHO. I would've loved to have known more and I may have selected the SF and now after seeing the RR I have a little regret that I hadn't seen that before my purchase.
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that is correct MSRP is $1795. Tom
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FB
Console yourself. If I hadn't spent over $1400 for the carbon fiber grip R9, in May, I would be a lot more tempted to bid on the Robar $1795.00 model on gunbroker.
While I am aware of prestige models like SF and Elite, for me, any top dollar R9 MUST contain the words "carbon fiber grips".
So, there we are. I have the CF grips but I don't like the two tone. I will continue to look for a metal finishing house that does not have Robar's arrogance or Wilson's edict to disassemble/reassemble the gun.
The top dog, and still champion of the Rohrbaugh circle, (for me), is a Farmingdale gun, low S/N, one tone, CF grip R9.
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ACP:
You might consider Accurate Plating & Weaponry or Ford's Custom Gun Refinishing for the work you have in mind. AP&W refinished a 1911 for me under subcontract from Clark's Custom Guns, and Ford's did the chrome plating on my Desert Eagle. The finish on each pistol is flawless.
http://www.apwcogan.com/
http://www.fordsguns.com/
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Richard
Thanks much for your post. It was your previous mention of Tripp Research that lead me to find out that Tripp no longer does any plating.
My first attempt was Metaloy, as mentioned on Tripp website, but they will not work with aluminum. I have made other requests and am awaiting responses.
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Interesting note on Ford's website. They have an "Accessory Rail Removal Service"!
Yeah team! A company that concurs with my views on picatinny rail.
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Interesting!
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Just for the record (and thanks to Richard) I may have a 'go situation' with Fords Custom Guns to get my two tone R9 "groomed" for matte hard chrome one tone finishing.
I should know by first Monday in August if I will be proceeding with them. (This is based upon premium delivery request pending return of key personnel from vacation)
The fact that they were mentioned favorably on the Rohrbaugh Forum seemed to matter to them. Imagine that; a small business with a profit incentive that treats potential customers well and actually wants their business. Can't quite remember that name. Oh yeah; Capitalism!
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I spoke with Robar today to find out how the grooming of the pup was going, and was told it should be done in about a week. I wanted to find out as I need to send my Colt New Agent in for the recall work.
John
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John
I would be very excited if I were you anticipating Robar R9.
What is the recall issue with Colt New Agent?
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I'm like a 6 year old at Christmas but 10 times older :o
The recall is for a slide lock safety and /or recoil spring guide assembly, as stated in the dear John letter.
John
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I thought a Colt New Agent was a snub nosed revolver! Not exactly up on new Colt guns. Old Colts? YES
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The one you are thinking of is the Colt Agent, I have seen sale ads for colt Agents and and clicked on them only to see and old revolver not a 1911. The New Agent is the same as the Defender but with no front and rear sight, like an R9.
John
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Got it, thanks. I owned a Defender when they first came out.
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I got the call from Robar today, the pup is on it's way home. The nice lady on the phone said the pup would be here tommrow (http://i413.photobucket.com/albums/pp216/yankee2500/eek1.gif) I don't know if that will happen but it would be nice.
The New Agent is going to be picked up tommrow so having the pup back would be nice. I'll keep you posted.
John
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Good for you, John, and best wishes with your new custom Robar R9
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Good news, John. We'll be waiting for those pictures.
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All - I hate to be a naysayer in all of this. I am a new owner of the R9 and finally have had my "rights" of gun ownership reinstated coming back from overseas. And I love it.. I understand that we all have and are entitled to our opinions, but why are we all so avid on changing a product that we all hold so dear already. This one topic is challenging the topics that should have so many responses - proper care/maintenance, puppy love, etc. Don't get me wrong, good debate is a better product even if it is just cosmetic. But I think we have what we are all looking for - a handsome (or pretty) ultimate concealed handgun. As had been said before, yes - we need to give it a proper diet. But that is the only cost. Overseas, I didn't need a certain type of finish. I needed the weapon to fire. Then again, I have been finally given the "right" to own again. Please don't take my comments as negative. Just adding a few cents.
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And I forgot. Yankee - can't wait for the pictures. Hope the BL you take down remembers his lost thoughts - "That is one beautiful Rohrbragh!".
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bnightrider:
You make a cogent and compelling argument. When I joined the forum in 2005 I was an angry guy as I was living in the People's Republic of New Jersey and was disallowed from obtaining a CCW.
After a quadruple background check in NJ you are only allowed to carry your (unloaded) gun to and from the range. Ammunition and gun must be segregated in such a way that you cannot access both so as to arm yourself enroute to range or home.
If you stop for coffee or to fill your gas tank enroute, (with your gun in the vehicle), and are stopped, it is a felony.
I could go on and on and on. However, please consider the collegiate nature of this forum and understand that we congregate to support and celebrate each other's good fortune.
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Well said. Didn't mean to insult or anything. Guess I am just happy to finally have the pup that I don't want to change it...yet!
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My sole reason for doing this was not just looks, so here is the rest of the story.
NP3 - THE ADVANTAGES
Very accurate and even coatings on all activated surfaces.
No lubrication is needed on opposing surfaces.
Cleaning is minimal, usually requiring only a soft cloth.
Permits firing for longer periods of time between cleaning, as dirt and powder residue has no wet or oily surface to cling to.
NP3 has a micro hardness of 48-51 Rockwell as plated (nickel matrix).
NP3 is very corrosion resistant, a 1 mil (.001) coating exceeding a 240 hour salt spray test.
NP3 has a high lubricity and low friction co-efficient; therefore, the life expectancy of a firearm will be greatly increased due to reduced friction wear.
The coating is strippable with no effect on the base metal, allowing other coatings to be applied or a new coating of NP3 to be applied, if necessary.
NP3 plated onto stainless steel guns will prevent galling, a problem common with stainless steel.
NP3 is a satin gray, non-reflective color ideal for all firearms.
NP3 can be plated to all internal parts giving a smoothness to the action not found with any other coating.
In cases where the NP3 has been perforated, the corrosion shows no tendency to spread or migrate under the coating.
NP3 is guaranteed against corrosion, peeling or flaking for the lifetime of the firearm.
John
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My sole reason for doing this was not just looks, so here is the rest of the story.
NP3 - THE ADVANTAGES
Very accurate and even coatings on all activated surfaces.
No lubrication is needed on opposing surfaces.
Cleaning is minimal, usually requiring only a soft cloth.
Permits firing for longer periods of time between cleaning, as dirt and powder residue has no wet or oily surface to cling to.
NP3 has a micro hardness of 48-51 Rockwell as plated (nickel matrix).
NP3 is very corrosion resistant, a 1 mil (.001) coating exceeding a 240 hour salt spray test.
NP3 has a high lubricity and low friction co-efficient; therefore, the life expectancy of a firearm will be greatly increased due to reduced friction wear.
The coating is strippable with no effect on the base metal, allowing other coatings to be applied or a new coating of NP3 to be applied, if necessary.
NP3 plated onto stainless steel guns will prevent galling, a problem common with stainless steel.
NP3 is a satin gray, non-reflective color ideal for all firearms.
NP3 can be plated to all internal parts giving a smoothness to the action not found with any other coating.
In cases where the NP3 has been perforated, the corrosion shows no tendency to spread or migrate under the coating.
NP3 is guaranteed against corrosion, peeling or flaking for the lifetime of the firearm.
John
+1
I had my HK P7 coated with NP3 as well as the total bottom half of my main carry 1911.
Not cheap, but I have never looked back.
Reinz
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I stand by what I said above but I do find it interesting to get the technical basis which so clearly recommends the metal finishing.
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"Well with the pup returning in a week or two I thought I needed something else to wait for so I called Rafter S Gunleather today and ordered an OWB holster in honey elephant with dark peanut alligator trim. Turn around time is eight to twelve weeks, not bad compared to some holster makers twenty plus weeks and some even longer.
John"
John and I think ACP, didn't you guys get these holsters yet? If you did what do you think and can you post a picture? thanks.
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Holster NOT received. Further, Rafter S has not responded to my phone message or email. I have PM'd yankee and I think he has had difficulty as well.
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I like the looks of NP3 and metalife on my pistols ... but only after the original finsh shows significant wear. But if I had the bucks, I'd do it sooner rather than later.
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Holster NOT received. Further, Rafter S has not responded to my phone message or email. I have PM'd yankee and I think he has had difficulty as well.
Oh no, I hope you didn't pay or could get your money back. I was going to get one but it all sort a went fishy so I decided to wait. Good luck and hoping that you will still get it and it will be fantastic.
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Paid in full when I ordered the holster in July. Not Happy.
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The Rafter folks are nice people to talk to, however, dealing with them on the phone or in person is not good. I tried to get a holster ordered at a Dallas gun show and after 2 shows over 4 months canceled and got my money back. Tom
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yikes.....glad I held off.
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I spoke with them early in the week and was told the holster was finished and they were finishing the belt, and it would ship Fri. (today) I may call them in a while and see what they say. This does not seem totally out of order for holster makers, I was reading some posts from 2004 about Ron Graham and it seems it was the same thing, too much work and too little time.
John
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John
Is this the third or fourth promise Rafter S has made to you?
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I would ask for a tracking # if they say they shipped.
Chief
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I just called and was told it may go out today if not it would ship Monday. ::)
John
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John
Is this the third or fourth promise Rafter S has made to you?
The first couple of times she told me it was not finished and was vague on a ship date, the last couple the date has been moved back a week each time.
John
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John's fate is mine, given the fact I ordered the same holster a couple weeks later. They have not responded to my phone calls or emails and I asked for my money back. I have no idea what is going on.
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I have visited with them on the phone and in person at the Dallas gunshow. Great product, and if you see what you want right there at the show, it's a great deal. When I ordered both a belt and holster and was to pick it up at the next show, they didn't have it ready then or the next show. I asked for my money back, in cash, and moved on. Tom
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Sounds good to me but I already did that to which they have not responded. Today marks 12 weeks which they said they would try to improve when holster was ordered in July.
My last email requested firm ship date. Failing their ability to give me a firm ship date I requested refund after I advised them I was unwilling to wait any longer.
I am okay with the fact that they make a good product but I have waited long enough. Their failure to respond to multiple attempts to expedite leaves me where I am which is referenced herein and above.
I will get my R45 before my Rafter S holster.
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I am going to call late Monday or sometime Tuesday and find out if my two items have shipped. Then depending on my mood at the time, ask for a refund (if they have not) or the gaurantee that they will ship by the end of the week, and if they can not do that, refund my payment.
John
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John
Good for you! What's your secret? At least they have spoken to you; not that broken promise(s) are anything to cheer about.
I will be interested in whether they actually follow through on their re-re-re-re promise to you.
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Well after another call to Rafter S today, the word is that the holster is finished and the belt is waiting for the finish to be applied. She told me that it was raining cats and dogs and they didn't want to put the finish on because it will not dry right ::). Tommrow is forcast to be better.
I told her that if the belt and holster were not ready to ship by the end of the week to ship the holster and keep the belt and refund my money for it. I will follow up with a call on Thur.
to see were we are at.
John
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I sent them an email over the weekend in which I flat out advised them ORDER CANCELLED. If I miss out on a good product, that is my problem. However, reading yankee and Tom's experiences are such that I no longer care.
I always put my money where my mouth is in pursuit of good stuff. However, payment in full in July and knocking on November's door without a clue as to when or if I will get my holster? Not happening.
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I called today and they said the belt was not finished yet (the belt is made but needs the finish applied) I told him I was done waiting and if the belt was not ready to ship tommrow, to ship the holster and keep the belt and refund the money for it, or keep my payment and ship the belt on there dime when it's finished. I guess now I will wait and see what happens.
John
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This is painful to read, I would hate to be having this conversation with them. Think of all the business they just killed because of these delays, I for one can't be enticed to purchase now. Don't they understand that every time someone does a search for their product on the web they will also find this thread and probably lose the sale. I was going to get alligator for both my R9 and my sig P220. Rafter S GunLeather. http://www.raftersgunleather.com/Holsters.htm
It's a shame to I really really liked the look of their holsters.
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At least, the webmaster, Jim Berkshire, does a magnificent job of presentation but without execution and delivery performance it is not worth much.
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Excellent point made as to Rafter S killing goodwill. They are what they are; gifted makers, (according to Irish Guard), who squander opportunity.
I have yet to receive a single response from them, despite yankee's having spoken to them on my behalf. So, they must know that they have unhappy people in their pipeline.
I cancelled, as referenced above, and have not received my refund. This is my Corbon moment.
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If you used a credit card you can get your money back from the card company for non delivery of goods. (Depending on your credit card)
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I am debt free and do not own a credit card. Further, my debit card was taken for $2700.00 of identity theft so I seldom use it.
I paid by check in July. I have enough clout with the bank and negotiating skills to know that my "termination for cause" (non-performance) is reasonable grounds to reverse an electronic event, had I used a credit card.
If Rafter S does not refund in the next week or so, I will contact my bank and go the route of attempting to reverse funds from the check I sent over 3 months ago.
Not sure of the outcome but it cannot hurt to try.
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It seems that you would have a better chance with the refund request. I can't see a scintilla of a chance reversing a check cashed 3 months ago but like you said it is worth an inquiry.
Even though you don't use credit I have found American Express to be most effective in addressing non-performance on a charge. They just simply reverse the charge and put the onus on the merchant to prove performance.
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I am not a fan of American Express as I locked horns with them years ago over a balance dispute.
The number one thing I have going for me is clout with my bank. I have reversed transactions before due to circumstances not unlike rafter s.
When that $2700.00 of id theft occured about a year and a half ago I had money restored in a week. (I also had great fun with the merchants who accepted my stolen identity. They could not/would not identify third party "drop- to" location for reasons of Security!)
To your point, reversing a check will be more difficult. My bank just underwent a merger and I am having difficulty with routine matters, much less trying the impossible.
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A few years ago someone hijacked my personal info and had a driver's license made with their photo on it. They promptly opened a charge account in my name and charged $1700 in men's clothing on the card. I notified Foley's fraud department and after verifying my info they promptly dropped the charges.
Today, I have arranged through the credit agencies that if anyone attempts to open credit in my name the agency must call my home phone no. to verify the validity of it. Anyone can do this to protect themselves from fraud of this kind.
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In todays world it stinks that one has to be so diligent in protecting thier azz!
I ususally change all bank cards and logons once a year just to maintain some sort of OPSEC.
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I made my payment through Pay-pal and will have to file a dispute, if and when it comes to that.
John
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Paypal is what lead to the $2700 identity theft. I was purchasing something which mandated its useage. Paypal is the only time in my life that I trusted the internet with my debit card and I don't have to tell anyone on this forum about the prevalence of id theft.
I am convinced that some merchants are in on the deal with identity theft as they want the sale more than they care about the legitimacy of the transaction.
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I'm sure there are merchants that have fallen on hard times and the temptation to sell some credit card slips overtakes them.
But there are probably more who throw things in the trash that should go in a shredder, and expose information to dumpster divers looking for credit card info.
John
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When I received my debit card statement it included the 800 numbers of the merchants who had illicitely accepted my card for third party drop shipment. Although my bank took care of me, I could not leave well enough alone and called the merchants. (Half of the $2700 id theft took place in Europe so I left them alone).
When I spoke to the merchants they tried to act like they were the victim and I slamed them. Had their own identity theft protocols worked, they would not have accepted transactions with third party location deliveries.
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I spoke with Rafter S this afternoon and was told the belt is finished and belt and holster should ship tommrow ::) at this point in time I guess I'll believe it when I see them here.
John
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GOOD LUCK!!
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Corey, thanks. I tried to contact Ron Graham about ordering a pocket holster and both the e-mail address do not work, I get a message saying the e-mail is not able to be delivered :(
What does a guy have to do to get a darn holster >:(
John
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What does a guy have to do to get a darn holster >:(
John
Call Robert! (210) 626-2370
What are you looking for? He makes some of the best I've seen.
http://mecopocketholsters.com/
this is my favorite he made for my seecamp:
(http://www.seecamp.com/yabbfiles/Attachments/DSCN0393_Medium.JPG)
He also makes IWBs too:
(http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa311/gunslinger902/Meco-3.jpg)
There are many more pics on his site! Check him out. He rarely has instock/on hand because he makes each custom for the order; and has about an 8 week waiting list (last I heard).
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John. Hopefully, you'll have that Rafter holster very soon.
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John,
So, did Rafter S ship you holster and belt?
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After they said it would ship today, I thought I would call tommrow and see if it is on the way.
John
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Call Robert! (210) 626-2370
What are you looking for? He makes some of the best I've seen.
http://mecopocketholsters.com/
this is my favorite he made for my seecamp:
(http://www.seecamp.com/yabbfiles/Attachments/DSCN0393_Medium.JPG)
He also makes IWBs too:
(http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa311/gunslinger902/Meco-3.jpg)
There are many more pics on his site! Check him out. He rarely has instock/on hand because he makes each custom for the order; and has about an 8 week waiting list (last I heard).
MrsFosforos, thanks for the great pics, I have one of Roberts pocket holsters, but wanted a holster in Ostrich, and liked the style of the Kentucky by Graham. I tried to buy the Ron Graham Kentucky that clydep7 was selling but got beat out by another buyer :( .
It seems there is no way to contact Ron Graham, does any one know if he is still doing holsters?
John
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I just called Rafter S and the person I spoke with said the holster and belt have shipped. ;D But he said that Della was not there so he didn't have a tracking # ::) I think I may call back tommrow and talk to Della and confirm the shipping info.
John
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John. Very good news.
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I am unconvinced until it happens. They have yet to give me the courtesy of a response to my multiple attempts to find the status of my order, paid in full in July.
Comments made on this forum, (up or down), ought reflect real events with rightful cause. This forum is a good opportunity for a maker to grow their business. It is also a domain in which disapprobation may be aimed at a maker who regards "customer service" as a myth.
Good luck to John; I want my money back.
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Fortunately, disapprobatees have been in the small minority on this forum. We have been blessed with some master craftsmen whose products have truly enhanced our experience with this unique weapon.
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Now you tell me.
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Well I called several times today but the phone was never answered, so I don't know any more than I did yesterday.
Maybe it will show up tommrow or the first of the week or never :o
John
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John,
I cannot console you anymore than I can myself. Frankly, I think your fate is worse than mine because you are slightly ahead of me in the pipeline and you have spoken to them repeatedly, whereas they have never responded to my emails nor phone messages.
to tracker's point, there are good makers out there; Rafter S is clearly not one of them.
My intention is a pyrrhic victory in which I intend to report them to the Better Business Bureau in their location in Missouri. I have a strong belief that I will not be alone.
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I don't know if I will contact the BBB but I am a member on
26 gun forums and will post what happened on every forum I'm on.
AR15 forum has over 168 thousand active members and the Sig forum has over 50 thousand and that only two out of the 26. It may end up being a hard lesson learned for everyone.
But I hope it doesn't come to that.
John
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John
You the man! I am active on this forum only but the numbers of which you speak are huge.
No rational person enjoys gratuitous criticism of a maker but Rafter S has distinguished themselves as worthy of rebuke.
Warning our brothers in arms is secondary to our original intent which was to acquire what appeared to be a really cool holster.
It is very sad that we "get our money's worth" by trashing a maker, instead of praising them. However, you are only as good as your customer service. Rafter S holster photos are great! Actually getting one? Uhhhhhh.....
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Miraculous Moment: I received my Rafter S holster today. When I cancelled the order several weeks ago, I did consider the possibility that maker would ship the product instead of refund.
For those of you considering Rafter S holster, be prepared to wait a long time and deal with a customer service posture that is charitably described as "poor".
However, if you don't mind the wait and poor service, they do make a great product. This is as fair minded as I can get, given my experience as related above.
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Great, that you received the holster, ACP. The Rafter S website does show they do excellent work. They do need to put something about order shipment on their site.
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"The squeaky wheel gets the grease."
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Correct, tracker. I stole a move from my old playbook as a professional buyer. Nothing works better than cancelling an order to get it to show up.
Quoted "8 to 12 weeks" with their emphasis on their intent to "improve" the delivery. Actual experience was 15 weeks, following my attempt to cancel.
The DeSantis 086 holster has done an okay job but the Rafter S holster is serious workmanship. The R9 rides higher on the wasteband and is more easily accessed.
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Picture please.
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Artistry and business acumen are quite often distant cousins.
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It does seem like the two abilities do not go hand in hand.
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Fat Boy:
I do not own a camera. Product looks like pictures available on maker's website. I stand by what I said in this string regarding maker's customer service vs. the product they ship.
If you can hold your breath for a long, long time, (and pay up front), Rafter S product is superior stuff.
tracker and kjtrains concur on an important point. The "artist" modality is often in conflict with a vendor's business skills. I don't think they are bad people who have to learn how to become good people. I think they are good people, who make great stuff, who should be more honest with their customers relating to their ability to ship product within quoted time frame.
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I worked in Brazil for a time, and was warned about their mode of their services. If you wanted a suit tailored, or anything where the service was promised, they told you what you wanted to hear; time after time.
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Ditto, UK. Whenever I tried to expedite the Brits I was looking for a definitive commitment date. Instead, their uniform answer was "in good time".
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Well my holster and belt arrived today also, with the order being placed on July 16th, no record breaker but a very nice holster and belt. The pup will be very happy and secure in it's new home.
I thought ACPs may show up also because they told me they were both finished about the same time and the only difference between them is the slide guard on mine.
(http://i413.photobucket.com/albums/pp216/yankee2500/R9holster002.jpg) (http://i413.photobucket.com/albums/pp216/yankee2500/R9holster001.jpg)
John
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Beautifully done!
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I was hoping John would show up as he was a week ahead of me. I never considered the slide guard and have no complaints with the holster, as ordered.
One thing that does not appear on website photographs which John may be able to handle: Rafter S stitches a channel of parallel raised leather grooves into the interior of the holster; (dimensions 1.5" length, 1/4" height and 3/8" width). This channel guides the R9 sights, for good ingress and egress of the gun from the holster, and it imparts integrity to the fit of the gun while holstered.
Though the R9 rides higher in the Rafter than the 086 DeSantis holster, it is a superior fit. You know the one about the angel and the devil on your shoulder. Lousy customer service, great product.
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John. Good to hear your belt and holster arrived. Excellent looking holster.
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If there was a model for the R45 we could order a Rafter S holster for it now and only have a month wait after the gun is shown at the Shot Show in Jan. (http://i413.photobucket.com/albums/pp216/yankee2500/icon102.gif)
John
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John, good point. Tom
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Just got off the phone with Robert from meco holsters. He said my holster was shipped nov. 16, so I should get it tomorrow or Friday. I sent a check on oct.16, so it will be just over a month from order to delivery. Great service!! Thank you Robert. Wonderful dealing with you. Gene Birdwell
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Is the Meco holster a pocket or belt carry? Fantastic delivery.
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It's a front pocket model made of "Armagator" Robert specifically pointed out that while it was real leather, it was not alligator. I told Him that was ok that He and I were too old to be chasing 'gators anyway!
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Cool. I have seen the type of leather you mentioned. There is a way to "distress" conventional leather to make it look like alligator.
For the record, (help me out Floridians), there are metric tons of alligators out there. My understanding is that Endangered Species Act turned them into a nuisance. Am I right?
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They are still protected somewhat as one has to be licensed by the state in order to be a "trapper" of the nusiance lizards... There is also permits that one can apply for to actually hunt them but it is hard to get one I think. I haven't personnaly tried. I have better things to do than tromp around in a swamp. My days of that crud died when I left military days. Quite tasty critters however!
More info can be found on FWC (Florida Wildlife Commission) website
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They should open up a season on iguanas and those Burmese Pythons.
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I'm waiting for open season on the Crocogators. Texas rattlesnakes are a bit thin for holsters.
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They should open up a season on iguanas and those Burmese Pythons.
Speaking of which, and with apologies for thread drift, do you all remember this one?
http://www.rohrbaughforum.com/YaBB.cgi?board=Water;action=display;num=1153101463;start=90#90
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I have two "one off" custom bowie knives that are sheathed in rattlesnake and python, respectively.
To tracker's point, rattlesnake, or any other snake, is not thick enough to stand alone. Instead, the two snake skins are stitched onto the facade of leather sheaths by Treestump Leather in Maine.
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They should open up a season on iguanas and those Burmese Pythons.
I'd rather see a season on politicians....
They "hiss and squeeze" at us just like the two sleazy, slithering critters you mention above.