The Rohrbaugh Forum

Rohrbaugh Products and Accessories => Rohrbaugh Range Reports => Topic started by: docboss on December 19, 2012, 07:37:48 PM

Title: First Range Report
Post by: docboss on December 19, 2012, 07:37:48 PM: I took my Stealth to the range for its first trial. Shot 64 rounds of GD 115 (20), GD 147 (20), Lawman 115 (24), each at 7yds, and 14yds.
Results: No failures to load, fire or eject.
Recoil: Not as bad as expected, but I was "trained" to hold as much metal as possible so I used modified Weaver grip and stance. I hold the firearm as high as possible. With the slick and short grips my thenar space (area between thumb and forefinger) is going to be sore tomorrow.
Accuracy: I put 62 rounds in the center mass. The other two were "fliers" due to the guys shooting a Desert Eagle and a Tactical 12 gauge in the next lane. No "keyholes".
I have not cleaned or examined the firearm, but will report.
Given the number of complaints about failures with other R9's, I wonder if lubrication is the issue. I did a very thorough cleaning with Simple Green and treatment with FrogLube.
Questions/Comments?
PS. So far, the firearm (and dealer) has greatly exceeded my expectations. ;D
Title: Re: First Range Report
Post by: tracker on December 19, 2012, 07:52:35 PM: Thanks for the great report. You sound like a happy camper and good news is most welcome now.
Title: Re: First Range Report
Post by: Richard S on December 20, 2012, 08:54:36 AM: Quote from: docboss on December 19, 2012, 07:37:48 PM
* * * Given the number of complaints about failures with other R9's, I wonder if lubrication is the issue. I did a very thorough cleaning with Simple Green and treatment with FrogLube.
Questions/Comments?
PS. So far, the firearm (and dealer) has greatly exceeded my expectations. ;D

1. What Tracker said.
2. You have "broken the code." 8)
3. Congratulations and thank you for that excellent range report.
Title: Re: First Range Report
Post by: docboss on December 20, 2012, 11:41:35 PM: Today I did another thorough cleaning and examined the Stealth. It was pretty dirty, but cleaning was easy. I am very impressed with FrogLube. Perhaps I'll put something on the maintenance forum about it. Just three passes through the barrel and it looks like a mirror. Under magnification and bright light I found some very small filings in the frame but could not find the source. Naturally, there are more wear areas than before, but overall things look good. The recoil spring is about 1/4" shorter than the replacement. One of the mags is stiffer and makes loading the sixth round difficult.
This is probably the last report for a few days as my strong hand needs some time to recover. Not bad, but I have no desire to fire another 60+rounds. However, I will be "carrying" in a Galco IWB. Please send some info about VZ grips. Carbon or Textured? ;)
Title: Re: First Range Report
Post by: backupr9 on December 22, 2012, 08:05:03 AM: Welcome DB. Remember to tighten your grip screws after firing (do NOT overtighten!). When cleaning the pistol, it sometimes helps to run a Q-tip into the screw holes to remove oil before replacing grips. Yankee can provide small rubber O-rings for the grip screws that also tend to prevent loose grips (loose grip on the right side=failure). You have discovered the secret: good ammo, firm grip and proper lube works.
Title: Re: First Range Report
Post by: backupr9 on December 22, 2012, 10:36:24 AM: Correction...pipecleaner, not Q-tip.
Title: Re: First Range Report
Post by: docboss on December 22, 2012, 05:18:31 PM: That's ok. I would never use a Q-tip on a handgun and I am sure you would not either. I also stand corrected. My instructor has informed me that my GRIP is a Rob Leatham techinque and my STANCE is modified Weaver. Sorry Rob. :-X
Title: Re: First Range Report
Post by: docboss on January 04, 2013, 11:14:41 PM: Did my second range trial of my Stealth. I shot 12 rounds GD 115, 12 rounds GD 124, and 48 rounds Lawman 115. Fired as fast as I could with each mag of six at about 20 feet. I tried to simulate a panic situation with no chance to set and aim. All rounds hit in center mass but four. Each "miss" was the last round in the mag. No "keyholes", failures to feed or fire. I did have a failure to eject on the last round of the magazine with the strongest spring. After firing all six rounds, I removed the mag, and when clearing the chamber, had a spent cartridge eject. Can someone explain this? I am getting accustomed to the recoil. The guys at the range had never seen a Rohrbaugh. They were very impressed. So much so that they started laughing about Keltecs and Kahrs in comparison. When I told them the price, they stopped laughing. I will clean and examine the firearm and report. So far the "pup" has greatly exceeded my expectations. ;)
Title: Re: First Range Report
Post by: Reinz on January 04, 2013, 11:40:33 PM: Hey Doc, glad to hear your range times where successful!

As far as that one FTE on the last round, I would not worry. It may be a fluke. Or fatique, or a subconscientious mental thing. You said it was the last round, right? Well, if you anticipated this in the back of your mind, you could have backed off on your grip as soon as pulled the trigger. Thus, loosing your stable platform for ejection and feeding.
Keep in mind rapid firing, especially multiple times, will wear the best of us down.

Hope This Helps
Title: Re: First Range Report
Post by: docboss on January 05, 2013, 12:32:49 AM: Thanks. The thought had occurred to me that this might have been a "limp wrist" issue or an "out of spec" cartridge. I must admit, the accuracy and handling of this firearm has been nothing less than startling. I realize it may be as much the grip and stance as design, ammo or materials. I will say that my hand is pretty beat up and a new spring is probably in order. And although my results at the range were much better than expected, the groups tended to move lower left as I tired. This will probably be my last range report as I have enough confidence in the Rohrbaugh to carry it routinely and practice periodically. :o
Title: Re: First Range Report
Post by: Richard S on January 05, 2013, 09:54:22 AM: Quote from: docboss on January 05, 2013, 12:32:49 AM
Thanks. The thought had occurred to me that this might have been a "limp wrist" issue or an "out of spec" cartridge. I must admit, the accuracy and handling of this firearm has been nothing less than startling. I realize it may be as much the grip and stance as design, ammo or materials. I will say that my hand is pretty beat up and a new spring is probably in order. And although my results at the range were much better than expected, the groups tended to move lower left as I tired. This will probably be my last range report as I have enough confidence in the Rohrbaugh to carry it routinely and practice periodically. :o
(Emphasis supplied.)

Thank you for that good range report.

The groups moving lower left as you tired would be consistent with the guidance of this diagnostic target developed by the U. S. Army Marksmanship Unit -- i.e., perhaps using too little trigger finger, breaking the wrist, and/or jerking the trigger due to fatigue:

(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y30/RichardS/diagnosistarget-1.jpg)
Title: Re: First Range Report
Post by: docboss on January 05, 2013, 10:17:00 AM: Thanks for the reply. Yes, I have a couple of issues that should be rectified. The size of the Rohrbaugh, relative to my hand, will always create a less than ideal situation. I have large hands and very long fingers. As such, my grip results in a compromised trigger finger position. There is no way I can pull the trigger, with its long double action pull, straight back. This results in a rotation of my hand that pulls down and left. My grip can compensate for awhile, but after six mags of shooting, it starts to weaken. And, my grip on this firearm must be tight. Fortunately the trigger pull is so smooth on the Rohrbaugh that I can fire very accurately in a "fire fight" situation at close range. This is one of the reasons I cannot fire a Keltec, Kahr or even a J-frame with the same accuracy. Only the Solo and the P238 give me similar accuracy, but they have issues of their own. Interesting stuff, eh? What really looks good, but I have not found one yet, is the H&K P7. Have anyone fired one?
Title: Re: First Range Report
Post by: backupr9 on January 05, 2013, 11:49:08 AM: I dry fired a P7 and was not thrilled with the feel, but have not been able to shoot one. Richard S. does, I believe, carry one regularly and loves it...some literature suggests it may be the quickest response pistol. I would love to shoot one, but no one I know has one nearby.
John
Title: Re: First Range Report
Post by: Richard S on January 05, 2013, 12:01:37 PM: Quote from: backupr9 on January 05, 2013, 11:49:08 AM
I dry fired a P7 and was not thrilled with the feel, but have not been able to shoot one. Richard S. does, I believe, carry one regularly and loves it...some literature suggests it may be the quickest response pistol. * * *

Yo! 8)

(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y30/RichardS/hkp7actionsbyt-1.jpg)
Title: Re: First Range Report
Post by: C0untZer0 on January 05, 2013, 12:11:23 PM: Love my HK P7M8 - I could fill a forum with all the good things I have to say about this marvel of German engineering:

(http://www.rohrbaughforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6661.0;attach=520;image)
Title: Re: First Range Report
Post by: C0untZer0 on January 05, 2013, 12:22:33 PM: I have a little bit of soreness in the web of my shooting hand for firing just 50 rounds last night. It's not major and I don't notice it when I'm busy doing things, I'm sure it will be gone by tomorrow, but the little R9 lets me know I've been shooting it.

If I could just find a way to bypass the laws of physics my life would improve in so many ways, but unfortunately I haven't figured out a way to do that.

The same factors that make this pistol so concealable and comfortable to carry present difficulties in shooting it.

But probably if I find myself in the middle of an attempted car jacking while I'm fueling my vehicle, or the intended victim of a mugging, I won't be thinking about whether or not the R9 is a joy to shoot at the range.

(http://www.rohrbaughforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6661.0;attach=522;image)
Title: Re: First Range Report
Post by: Reinz on January 05, 2013, 12:49:33 PM: Doc - since the R9 is usually not your first handgun, and one of impecable taste; same goes for the P7 and hence you have a following of connoisseurs on this site as well.

While the great Col. Jeff Cooper thought the CZ 75 was the best fighting 9mm, I, with others have to disagree. The P7 squeeze cocker is very ergonomic, fewer controls due to the squeeze cocker; no safety, no slide release. Inherently accurate due to the fixed barrel.

While the squeeze cocker may feel awkwark to some, it is pure natural to me and it's followers. It takes roughly 12-15 lbs of force to squeeze the cocker to cock the gun. However, keep in mind that you are using your whole grip, NOT just your trigger finger. Then once depressed, it only takes 2 lbs of force to keep it depressed. You don' t even notice it because of your natural grip. But it does freak some guys out.

No safety needed - it's on safe until you cock it. Release your grip, it's back on safe.

Talk about speed loads - after last round is fired, the slide locks back. Drop your mag, insert a new one, depress the cocker and down goes the slide! No need for a slide release. A true one-handed gun operation...after mag insertion.

The down sides -

Costs and availability - Supplies dry up, then some will show up. Euro- heel mag latch, like he R9 have been bringing $600-$800, depending. With the American mag release, they start at about $1200 for single stacks.

The other down side is they heat up fast. You really can't go ape like a 22 yr old with his first auto pistol. If you do 3 - 4 mags rapid fire, the frame will get hot aroung the trigger gaurd area and is quite uncomfortable to hold. You will have to let it cool for about 10 min before firing, depending upon weather conditions. HK introduced a plastic "heat gaurd" on the trigger gaurd area which was a total joke.

There's more, but that's it in a nutshell. I'm sure Richard will "show and tell" his fine works of art and maybe Thor.

This is similar to one of mine.
Title: Re: First Range Report
Post by: C0untZer0 on January 05, 2013, 01:59:09 PM: Some people have criticised the pressure for holding the squeeze cocker - but that's nonsense, its less pressure than you would exert just to have a good grip on any pistol.

It completely solves the problem of either having a nice trigger - but having to carry cocked and locked and aving to deactivate a safety mechanism, verses having a less than optimum trigger.

Here I'm holding the squeeze cocker with only my ring finger - my weak hand no less:
Title: Re: First Range Report
Post by: Richard S on January 05, 2013, 02:02:49 PM: Quote from: Reinz on January 05, 2013, 12:49:33 PM
* * *
There's more, but that's it in a nutshell. I'm sure Richard will "show and tell" his fine works of art and maybe Thor.

* * *

Aww, shucks, Reinz: ;)

(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y30/RichardS/delfattitripleplay.jpg)
Title: Re: First Range Report
Post by: docboss on January 05, 2013, 06:20:45 PM: To C0untZer0: Your grip is almost the same as mine, but I hold my weak hand a little higher and my index finger across the trigger guard and around to cover my trigger finger. Yes, this contradicts all that is said about extending your trigger finger until you are ready to shoot, then place it on the trigger. My instructor has told me that: this is the best way I will get control of the recoil with the Rohrbaugh with the size of my hands AND you should/will never, ever, draw this firearm unless you are in imminent danger AND with the long double action trigger you will need a deliberate effort to fire. I would never use this grip with a 1911.
As far as the P7, I understand it was Hans Gruber's weapon of choice. I will have to watch the movie again. ;)
Title: Re: First Range Report
Post by: tracker on January 05, 2013, 06:28:21 PM: The best and one of the most accurate full sized 9 mm. on the planet. Grab one when you have the opportunity.
Title: Re: First Range Report
Post by: Griff on January 05, 2013, 08:47:49 PM: Hey. What was that bout q-tips? I thought they were the best thing since dental floss. I always use q-tips. How else are you going to get at those hard to reach places, and what would you use for properly applying oil to the frame rails? Come on, How do you properly clean a gun without q-tips?
The gun grabbers could probably just outlaw q-tips, and we would all have to use our finely made firearms as expensive rocks since they would quickly rust up and jam.
Of course, I would never use dental floss on my guns. Actually...It might actually be good for cleaning around my new VZ grips. I'll give it a try and let you know. Gunjivitis is the silent killer, after all.
Title: Re: First Range Report
Post by: tracker on January 05, 2013, 08:53:13 PM: I don't have any problem using q-tips either and have also used pipe cleaners occasionally. One clever forum member suggested using dental floss to separate the R9 grips from the frame if it is too difficult otherwise--whatever works for you.
Title: Re: First Range Report
Post by: Reinz on January 05, 2013, 10:36:09 PM: Richard - I knew I could count on you my freind. I never get tired of those great P7 Pics!

As far as Q-tips - I think the problem is the fibers or the "heads" themselves that they can leave behind. But I am a careful sort. In fact I buy Q-tips in the handy 600-packs.
Title: Re: First Range Report
Post by: docboss on January 06, 2013, 11:55:26 AM: Ok guys. Here is what I use to clean those tough areas in my Rohrbaugh (or any firearm). http://www.pearsondental.com/catalog/product.asp?majcatid=10&catid=4844&subcatid=13545&pid=43272&dpt=0. Hope you can open it. If not, let me know. These bristles are stiff enough to put some force in those tiny areas. With Froglube and a little work, most anything will work free. Then use a small patch of cloth pushed buy a toothpick to "mop" the area clean and dry. Same for applying lube. Sorry. I should have put this post on another Forum, but since it came up...Doc ;)
Title: Re: First Range Report
Post by: Reinz on January 06, 2013, 02:43:32 PM: Those look really slick. I went to the site and tried to order a couple of boxes, but there was $50 minimum. At 9.99 a box, I'd have to buy 6, so that's really spending 60 bucks plus shipping. I don't want start out with 600 of those just to try out at that price.

Thanks for the link though.
Title: Re: First Range Report
Post by: docboss on January 06, 2013, 05:43:48 PM: Pull out your local Yellow Pages and find a dental supply house, such as Patterson or Sullivan-Schein. They might get you a smaller supply. If I hear of, or find one I will let you know. There is also a company called Centrix that makes the brushes (Bendabrush), plus an awesome product, Benda Micro Applicators. They are a little pricey, but terrific for cleaning. http://www.centrixdentalstore.com/products/benda-micro-applicators. There is a reason they call me "Doc". PS Call your dentist to see if he/she has some. ;D
Title: Re: First Range Report
Post by: tracker on January 06, 2013, 05:56:32 PM: This ECCO brush is almost identical:

http://www.usdentaldepot.com/Dental-supplies/DISPOSABLE-BRUSH-APPLICATORS-ECCO(-)F2325
Title: Re: First Range Report
Post by: docboss on January 08, 2013, 10:14:23 PM: Sorry for bringing it up again, but I had to mention this... To Tracker, C0untZer0, etc. a NIB P7M13 is offered for sale on Gun Broker for $4300! Are you kidding me? Convince me it is worth 1/4 as much. I think I'll be looking for a H7K compact 9mm LEM. Doc :'( PS; I promise I will never mention the p7 again.
Title: Re: First Range Report
Post by: Reinz on January 08, 2013, 10:19:37 PM: Hi caps were only made for a short period. AND this one is new in the box - pretty damn rare!
Title: Re: First Range Report
Post by: Richard S on January 09, 2013, 07:20:09 AM: Reinz is right on the mark, as usual. The attraction of the P7M13 is its rarity. While even some P7 Cult members refer to them affectionately as "bricks" or "boat anchors," the going price for a NIB P7M13 these days in the community of P7 collectors can be . . . shall we say . . . impressive.
Title: Re: First Range Report
Post by: docboss on January 09, 2013, 11:29:44 AM: Yes. "Impressive" is a great word. I think I will move this topic to the "Other Guns" forum listing, but thanks. Now, could you guys give me some advice about the VZ grips? Which type is best for grip, cushioning, appearance on a stealth, etc? Do the VZ grips make it harder to draw the firearm from a holster? Are the dimensions (width) the same? I use a Galco IWB but would also like some advice about the Recluse front pocket holster. Thanks for your help. ;)
Title: Re: First Range Report
Post by: Reinz on January 09, 2013, 11:37:29 PM: Doc - VZ did an outstanding job on their grip design for the R9. Size wise is excellant, the only differece is a bit of extra girth with palm swells, not too much, but just right. Now the gun does Not feel like a piece of lumber.

As far as looks, that will be up to you. To me, you can't beat going with the Carbon Fiber Black or the G 10 in Black Cherry, Black Gray,or Black Hyena. They all look great in their own right. I have been so pleased with the Carbon Fiber, that is all I put on 3 of my R9's. I'm not interested in the checkered or anything else.
Peruse the VZ threads and you will see various pics to get ideas from.

I have quite a few custom holsters for my R9's, unfortunately none of them are the Recluse, so I have no input there. However, they have proved themselves an excellant sponsor to do business with.
Title: Re: First Range Report
Post by: docboss on January 31, 2013, 07:08:20 PM: Latest report: Ammo is getting a little scarce. My order with Ammo-to-Go is pending. I went to the range and shot 12 rounds of GD 124. No issues and all center mass at 7yrds or so. Then I decided to try some spare Federal white box, Range and Target 115 ammo. Yes, I know Rohrbaughs are ammo "intolerant", but I thought I would try anyway. After 36 rounds of Federal "stuff", I was shocked! I had one "stove pipe" while shooting one handed, which I think was a "limp wrist" issue. The firearm shot well, securely and accurately with the Feds.
What am I missing? I have read volumes on folks with failures to feed, fire, extract, etc. with bargain ammo. Did I just get an exceptional version? Sorry, but if someone complains about Rohrbaugh reliability, I must wonder: Do they clean and lubricate properly? What is different? The "pup" has greatly exceeded my expectations. Doc ??? PS. Local ranges are either selling ammo for range use only or asking patrons to bring their own ammo.
Title: Re: First Range Report
Post by: Richard S on January 31, 2013, 10:29:58 PM: Doc:

You have "broken the code." Thank for that fine range report.
Title: Re: First Range Report
Post by: C0untZer0 on March 14, 2013, 01:28:03 AM: Yep ammo is getting scarce.

I bought a ton of ammo last October or so when it looked like Obama might get re-elected.

Now to buy ammo you need to travel back in time to before the election...

(http://www.rohrbaughforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6661.0;attach=651;image)