The Rohrbaugh Forum
Rohrbaugh Products and Accessories => Rohrbaugh R9 (all variations) => Topic started by: mjt on September 05, 2004, 09:16:21 PM
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I just discovered the R9 and this forum. Both seem really good! I know some members of this forum own both a S&W 340pd and an R9. One thing I have not seen discussed is the comparison of the 340pd loaded with .357 and the 9mm R9. How do you compare these two? I have heard the 340 (loaded with .357) has a lot of recoil, but have read different "bottom lines" such as it is not really so bad or it is too much and I load it with 38+P. Some questions: How do they compare in concealability? How do they compare in shootability? Etc. Is the extra power you get with the .357 worth the small increase in size over the 9mm R9? A related idea here is that I could take my $900 and buy the 340pd ($600) and carry it when I can (most of the time) and when I cannot I could also buy a p3at (<$300) and carry it. Thanks in advance for any and all informed comments!
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The 342PD loaded with .38+P is a handful! :o Haven't even tried the 340 with .357 loads but I suspect that it would be even more of a handful!
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mjt .. welcome to the forum.... :)
I have fired a PD and +P is about as far as I'd want to go! Even in my SP-101 ... quite a heavy gun .... +P's are enough! That is not to say that carry with .357's would be impossible but not my choice .... I don't own a 340 - just had a chance to try one out. I think control would be the prob' for me . just too punishiong and unmanageable (and I am a recoil junky!!).
The R9 is plenty stiff enough with its normal diet of std pressure but manageable .. not to mention, the more concealable IMO. I know the price factor is a major one but - for me the R9 is in a class of its own really.
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I have shot +P loads from a S&W Airlite, but not .357 Magnum. Recoil is very subjective, but I find the R-9 with recoil to be very similar to +Ps in an Airlite. The Magnums would be considerably more stout.
You could buy both guns -- that is the setup I had before the R-9. First, let me say I love j-frames. However, the R-9 is the first thing I found to replace one. Unless you are carrying and profiicient with Magnum ammo, you are better armed with the R-9 -- 9mm hollowing points are as effective as .38 +P, but you have two more rounds on tap. The R-9 is also easier to conceal because it is flatter.
As to the 3AT, the size/weight difference is not that big and you give up a lot of firepower. I find I can carry the R-9 in all situations I carried the 3AT.
Also -- there is something to be said for carrying guns with similar functionality so you don't get confused. I would suggest going with the R-9 and then buying the next size larger pistol for carry when the situation allows. Get something with a similar functionality (i.e., a DAO or Safe-action type) and maybe even in 9mm for ammo sharing.
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DD Gator hit it on the head....if there are times you need something smaller than a j frame, why start compromising then with a kel-tec or any other 380 or 32 caliber. The beauty of the R9 is that it is so much better than the other small pocket guns , and especially when you HAVE to have something smaller than a j frame. I have, and regularly shoot and carry a 340. With Crimson Trace grips it is a very formidable weapon, especially at night. However, I guarantee you that 357 loads in it are MORE than a handful. I shoot them when I am feeling masochistic but I ALWAYS leave those sessions with a bloody hand that feels like its been hit with a hammer. So, if a j frame meets your needs 100% of the time for CCW, then that is fine. However, I have found there are times I need something even more concealable than a j frame and it is then I am much happier with the R9 than I would be with a Kel tec 380. A Kel tec is much better than nothing, but an R9 will trump a Kel Tec. If you have the money, get the R9. I am sure a 357 even out of a j frame is more powerful than a 9 mm. But, anybody who says a 357 out of a 340 is no big deal recoil and pain wise hasn't shot one. Bottom line for me is that I carry the 340 some, especially at night, because of the Crimson Trace grip option which I have found to be VERY effective FOR ME (YMMV). I ALWAYS carry the R9
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Guns are tools. A J frame isn't a pocket gun. It serves a different purpose than a Rohrbaugh.
If in 1980 you told me that I would become a pocketgun fan, I would have told you that you were smoking too much juju weed. Then one day, in a gun store, looking at the used gun trade-ins, I saw a Seecamp 25. It was love at first sight.
What the pocketgun allowed me to do, was to be armed when I wouldn't be otherwise. I carried that 25 in a Galco wallet holster for years, and in the process went from a Seecamp 25 to a Seecamp 32. Then to a Guardian 380 and 32 and now to a Rohrbaugh, with a side trip with a Kel Tec 380.
For some reason, people like to take compact firearms and try to claim that they are pocket guns. You want a test: here is one. Go into a gun store wearing jeans. Take a gun and put it into your rear pocket. If it can be totally concealed in your rear pocket, then you have found a pocketgun. If a little of it peeks out, then you have a small gun, but not a pocketgun.
Don't lie to yourself. A pocketgun isn't a substitute for a primary defensive firearm. What a pocketgun is is a BUG, an always gun. That little insurance policy that no one should know about except for you.
You like the J frame--buy it. But also consider a pocketgun as a BUG and as a gun that you can carry when you otherwise couldn't.
Think of it this way--a J frame is like a small travel clock. A Rohrbaugh is a watch. You could carry the travel clock in your pocket instead of a watch--but do you really want to do so? No. Likewise, when on a trip, do you want to rely on your watch instead of a travel clock? So you get both, knowing that each has its purpose, and in a pinch each can cover for the other.
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http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/OtherHandguns.htm
I think you may find some useful info at this site.
I, for one, have found the knowledge/experience of the members of this forum to be broader, deeper and more objective than at any other site I have visited. And while the group is generally quite positive about the Rohrbaugh, their feelings are the result of many years of wrestling with issues of self protection and concealability.
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Thx for that link rWt .. some interesting reading to be had.
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Lots of good thoughts on this subject here:
http://www.rohrbaughforum.com/YaBB.cgi?board=R9S;action=display;num=1092588684
The .357 scandium J-frame is the only gun that has actually drawn my blood from recoil when I shot it. The cylinder latch was slammed into my thumb hard enough to lacerate it. Trying to hold it in a manner that both protected my thunb and permitted accurate shooting was very difficult. For the same size gun, I'd rather make center hits with my Glock 26 than peripheral hits or misses with the .357 J-frame.
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I have shot .357 mag out of a Airlite J-frame before, did 10 rounds before I stopped. It was the most recoil I have ever felt, no I didn't bleed, or cut anything, but afterwards my hands felt slightly numb/stinging for a couple of minutes. Also during firing I felt debris block back on my face, could have been the ammo though (Winchester). So, it was manageable, but I only carried +P's because I just felt it was a little too much. The +P's bite, but after several cyclinders I don't feel any ill affects, most in one shooting was 40 rounds of +P. If you like the J-frame (none of mine have ever misfired) then I would try to find a 342. They are just as light, but cost about $450-500, check at gunbroker.com, they can shoot +P just not .357
If size is an issue, and you don't mind the weight of a R-9 versus that of a Kel Tec than I would get the R-9 (assuming money isn't a big issue). I don't own nor have I shot an R-9 but I have seen them and spoke with people who have them, and all say they are top notch. But in the end I say go with the Wheelgun if you can deal with the additional size (but less weight).
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Just looked on gunbroker and there are currently two 342's for $450 or less for each. There are also a few for like $560 or so also.
There is a 342PD (black one) for $580 also.
Just FYI......happy hunting ;D ;D ;D
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I'm looking at my S&W342 J-frame (the same thing as the 340PD but in .38 instead of .357) next to my R9S ...
(http://fud-files.netfirms.com/image/private/guns/f131.jpg)
... and there is no comparison. Being made of Titanium, the snubbie is an ounce or two lighter than the R9S but that's about the only advantage that it has. The R9S is more compact in every respect especially the width making it much easier to conceal. Plus it offers two extra rounds of firepower in a caliber that is equal, or even superior, to what the J-frame spits out.
True, the 340PD shoots .357s which are more effective than 9mm's but .38's are more than a handful for this light-weight revolver.
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I understand the .357 J-frames to be larger than the .38 J-frames.
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No -- a j-frame is a j-frame. They are the same size.
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I can't speak to the alloy J frames, but with the stainess versions, the 357 mag versions have the same size frame but the barrel is longer and the cylinder a tad wider.
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Fudster-10.8 vs 14.3 is 3.5 ozs.
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also "the only advantage" is the weight?
What about reliability?
How may failure to fires or malfuctions with your R-9 vs. the S&W?
My 342 has never misfired over 150 rounds and counting...
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From my personal experience, my 342, 442 and R-9 functioned exactly the same from a reliability perspective: 100%!
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During rapid fire sessions at the range, my 342 has seized up with less than fifty rounds through it.
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Wow. From what? Excessive fouling or bullet pull?
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I'm new to this forum. In fact I just discovered the Rohrbaugh today.
Some thoughts. I've owned a S&W 340 PD with an OA sights big dot sight for a couple of years.
Recoil: It is quite a handful when full of .357 mag, but it is not uncontrolable. Every time I go shooting, I make it a point to put 5 rounds through the little gun. It beats me up, but by forcing myself to consistently fire a small number of rounds through it, I am maintaining proficiency. I'm also now pretty used to the recoil. While I can't exactly double tap, my follow up shots can be pretty quick now.
Is it a pocket gun? Absolutely it is. I have a Kahr PM9, previously the smallest and lightest 9mm. I've found that the weight of the Kahr makes it impractical for pocket carry. In contrast the Jframe is so light that it can go in the front pocket of my jeans easily. Also, while it is thicker than a semi auto, the lumpy shape of the revolver breaks up its silhouette. Someone said that for it to be a pocket pistol it had to fit in the back pocket. That seems strange, I dont' know anyone who carries a gun in their back pocket.
With thiat said, I'm really interested in theis new Rohrbaugh. It will not replace my Kahr. I can shoot an IDPA qualifier with the little Kahr and do reasonably well (almost can shoot expert level with it). I think the Rohrbaugh is going to be too much of a handful for that.
Finally, my way of dress is such that before all these great little powerhouses came out, I stuck with my Seecamp. I typically wear jeans, khakis, shorts with a dress shirt or polo shirt. I don't wear vests or suits. So I have little opportunity to carry conceiled durring work unless it goes in my pocket. These are great times. The R9 looks like another great tool to keep on hand.
Don
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DDGator, I think it had to do with the heat. The cylinder just refused to turn. Even manually. I couldn't even open it. I started packing up and was getting ready to leave the range when I tried it again just before putting the gun away and it was movable again. I decided to continue shooting. Put another 20-30 rounds through it in quick fashion and the gun once again seized up just like before.
As a result, the 342 has become my 'house' gun. A gun that I carry in and around the house, the backyard, when I'm taking out the garbage, cutting the grass, shoveling the snow, etc. It is a gun to buy me some time if the situation ever arises, to reach one of my other guns.
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Hi dnmdcm:
I'm the rear pocket guy. I got into to pocket guns years ago with a Seecamp 25. I carried it for years in a Galco wallet holster. Over time converted to the Seecamp 32 (I now own 3 Seecamps), then the NAA Guardian 380 and 32, and now the Rohrbaugh. My personal test as to what is a pocket gun and what is not, is the guns ability to be fully concealed in the rear pocket of a pair of slacks.
The PM 9 and a J frame are both compact firearms, but they do not fall into my definition as a pocket gun. Granted, they may fit in some pockets, but that was not the original intent of the design.
On the other hand, the Rohrbaugh was intended to be a 21st century version of the derringer. A true pocket gun. The Rohrbaugh just barely meets my personal definition.
By the way, you should consider rear pocket carry. It is a very natural and easy way to carry a BUG. I've had people notice when I've carried firearms in other places, but no one has ever made me with a firearm in my rear pocket. People just don't expect to find a gun there.
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Hi Bob79:
The quality of the Rohrbaugh is unreal. I cannot think of a more reliable self-loading pistol out-of-the-box.
In April I transitioned from a J frame to a Glock 36 as my primary defensive firearm. I love wheelguns, but I love my Glock. If Kahr came out with a 45 ACP plastic framed pistol, I'd jump on it in a heart beat.
I only own 1 Kahr, and that is a K 40 Covert with a Black Diamond coat finish. I love the way the gun shoots, but I do not carry it.
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I think its odd your 342 seized up due to heat, what happened when you called S&W/sent them the gun? Really I've never heard of that. How fast were you reloading? Was it a constant quick fire 5/reload/fire 5/etc? I have put over a hundred rounds through my 342 at the range in one session, granted I didn't reload very fast, just a casual dropping of the casings, and reload by hand each round at a time. I never carry extra rounds w/ me anyways, so I have no need to quickly reload.
I have no doubt the R-9 is an awesome gun, I just have NEVER known one shooter with experience firing both semi-autos and wheelies, and said that the semi-auto was more relaible (including myself). I have both type of handguns, and if I knew for sure I was headed into a gunfight, and had a choice, it would be the wheelgun.
BTW-my 342 loaded w/ 5 GD 135+P weighs 13.5 ozs, and stats show that in the VAST MAJORITY of shootings, less than 5 rounds are even fired.
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I didn't say that the semi-auto was more relaible than wheelies. I said that in this particular case, I found my R9S to be more reliable than my 342. I've got a 640 that has not had this problem.
While I agree with you that most gun battles last less than 5 rounds (I think the average is 2.3 or 3.2 or something like that) and that should make a five rounder sufficient, I wouldn't want to be one of those 5% of case where a reload ([i[or miltiple reloads[/i]) is require and then discover that the gun isn't working.
That's why the 342 is now my "around the house" gun. It's small & light enough to throw into a pocket and forget about it. I can go about my business in the backyard, frontyard, answering the door late at night, etc.; without too much concern knowing that I am armed. In the event that I need to use it, I have fairly good confidence that I can get at least one cylinder fiired without a problem and if more is needed, those five rounds will buy me enough time to reach another one of my firearms. However, I do not have enough confidence to relie on it as being my sole means of defense.
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I have a 357 340sc and a R-9. Both had problems out the box. Both were sent back to the manufacturer and both returned and worked fine. I carry the one I feel like on any given day and have no second thoughts about reliability.
My 340sc does have significant recoil and the only time I put a full 50 rounds of 357 thru it, I ended up with a blister on the web of my hand. It did not show any difference from the first shot to the last.