Range Practice Surrogate

[hedrok]

A few years ago I found myself in the same situation.  Love the R9...hate to practice with it....it hurts and it's pricey.  Something I like very much about the Rohrbaugh pistols is the long, smooth trigger pull which lead me to the only other firearm that I've found that has that same long, smooth action and is easy on cost...a S&W 617...22lr revolver.  One handed shooting with that 22 WILL be good practice for trigger control.  The gun is a lot heavier...the felt recoil is a lot less...but in order to hit what is intended...IMO the trigger control is a must.  
I've probably put 6-7K rds thru the 617....Still can't win bullseye competitions but I have a lot of cheap fun and can keep 7 shots from my K380 in a 5" group at 50 ft. in less than 10 seconds.  Not great...But would certainly get the job done.

[Craigt]

All good input.

Now I am going to show my ignorance...

Could one load some under powered 9mm ammo, say similar power to a 380 round?  Just enough to fully cycle the slide?  The R9 might be too finicky for this but it seems as if the slide is cycled all the way back it should eject the empty and pick up the next round.

One's exact carry gun could be used for extended practicing without overly punishing one's hand or gun.

This probably requires setting up to reload or finding someone local that is already set up to reload to do it.  Might be expensive.

There must be a reason I have not heard of this technique.  So there it is.  I am not shy about asking silly questions.

Craig T.

[tracker]

Why not keep it as close to the reality of concealed carry as possible? If you start downloading your practice rounds you are defeating the benefit of practice to simulate an encounter. I think WWB and Speer Lawman FMJ, for example, are as far as I want to deviate from the carry round of Gold Dot or Silvertip.

[yankee2500]

Craig,
   I agree with tracker. The point of practice is not just to put holes in paper but also to keep you familiar with all aspects of your carry weapon, this includes recoil. Shooting extremely light loads is not going to give you the same feel for a followup shot.  
  
John

[kjtrains]

Craig.  I, too, agree with tracker and John.  What each said.  Keep it simple.  Don't try and make this too hard.  

[Craigt]

Now I am a little confused.  Before I continue, since you cannot see me, my body language, let me assure you I am not trying to be argumentative or put anyone on the spot.  I want to fully understand this aspect of self defense practice.

tracker, kjtrains and yankee2500, according to your last posts I should not practice with anything but my full powered R9.  I have no problems controlling this gun.  My only concern is after about 50 rounds in one session it becomes uncomfortable to shoot.  This comment has been made before so I am not the only one to express this situation.

This leads to two outcomes:  
  1. Practice only up to 50 rounds per session.
  2. Practice as much as I want and tuff it out.

In earlier posts in this thread it was suggested to use a .22 conversion for some other gun that I had.  I also got favorable comments on using my Colt Pony 380.  Both of these options include reduced to much reduced recoil and totally different to a little different gun (shape, size, operation, etc).  So if these are ok stand-ins for practice, why are down-loaded 9mm rounds in my R9 not a good practice solution?

I plan on finishing practice sessions with the full power R9 but the reality is I do not know if more than 50 rounds is productive and helpful.  Based on reading this type of comment numerous times here on the forum I know I am not alone with this sentiment.

Help me understand this...

Craig T.

[kjtrains]

Craig.  Certainly not trying to be argumentative either.  You really shouldn't have to fire more than 50 rds in a session.  That's the part I don't understand; 50 rds is a gracious plenty.

The R9, by words of the builder, is designed to be carried a lot and shot little.  

[tracker]

I think we are talking about two different things: there is target shooting and there is self-defense practice with your concealed carry weapon. That is why Rohrbaugh says, "carry a lot and shoot a little." Fifty rounds with the R9 should be more than sufficient for practice and reliability verification. If you are trying to improve your shooting skills such as target line of sight, breathing, and proper trigger pull, etc., take something else and fire it to the point of exhaustion if that is what it takes.

[tracker]

Sorry for the apparent duplication of thoughts. We were answering at the same time. There is also another practice shooting classification and that one is just for fun and enjoyment. I really enjoy just shooting my Gold Cup and Hi-Power, Glocks, and others at the range.

[yankee2500]

Craig,
   What I took away from the the "low power load" post was you were going to practice with the R9 with just low power loads. As long as you fire a couple of mags of your SD loads, I see no problem with it.
  About reloads, getting reloads from others can be risky and most shooters I know are very leery of shooting reloads from others. Reloading yourself is going to be pretty expensive. Most guys that reload do so for multiple calibers and the biggest savings are on the large calibers. It would not be worth while to load 9mm for just practicing with the pup.

John
  

[tracker]

If you really intend to shoot thousands of rounds all roads lead back to some version of the .22 for economy. The .380 certainly doesn't fall in the cheap ammo class but then there is the cost of a new gun. .22s are readily available and not very expensive weapons, such as a new or used Ruger, for example.

[kjtrains]

For goodness sakes, get a .22!    

[Craigt]

Thanks for the clarifications guys.

At this stage in my life journey my shooting is focused on self defense applications.  Target shooting is fun but at this point I am concentrating on self defense.

I did not grow up with guns and shooting, no hunting, and I am not as steeped in the shooting sports a most of you folks.  I learned shooting as an adult (late 20s) after giving up my wallet and briefcase coerced by the business end of a pistol.

I am still learning quite a bit about defensive shooting and feel that range sessions of more than 50 rounds could help me very much.  Two handed, dominant hand only, non-dominant two handed and one handed, etc., etc.

I am well tuned into 'practice with what you carry'.  So I am striving for as close as I can get to my R9 but less punishing on the hand.  Less cost would be nice but not the primary focus.

Tracker mentioned WWB and Speer Lawman FMJ.  Are these fairly low powered 9mm founds?  The ammo decision has so many variables that I have used Gold Dot 124 gr almost exclusively.

The Colt Pony is reasonably similar to the R9 except for the high trigger pull.

At some level, serious defensive shooting practice with almost any reasonable gun will be valuable but we are creatures of habit.  I have read enough accounts of actual situations that lend credence to the adage 'practice with what you carry' that this is what I am striving for.

Sounds like I am talking myself into a Rohrbaugh 380 doesn't it?

All good folks.  Any further input is most appreciated.

[tracker]

Craig,
I mentioned WWB and Speer Lawman only as lower cost FMJ alternatives to your Gold Dots, not as lower power. In aviation we used a term, "train to proficiency." That is similar to self defense training in that we only need to achieve a minimum level of proficiency to be effective and that implies repeatability but not perfection. Many of us feel that shooting more than 50 rounds in one session with the R9 may tend to be negative training and have a regressive effect.

Have you considered taking a weapons self-defense course? There are many good ones available such as Thunder Ranch and others that Duane may recommend. I'm sure you will find the right level to achieve your goals with as much thought as you are giving it. All the best to you.

[Craigt]

Thanks for that clarification Tracker.

Good point about proficiency vs. perfection.  Though I may sound like I am obsessing I am not looking for perfection.  (Isn't Perfection where the Graboids are found?)

The 50 round R9 "limit" is precisely why I want a practice stand-in that does not have that limit.

Also a good point about training courses.  I have a few under my belt.  Most certainly not as intensive as Thunder Ranch.  If I recall correctly my classes were from 100 to 200 rounds per evening class.  I hope someday soon to be able to attend some of the more intensive classes.  Until then, I want to get the most out of the practicing that I am able to do.

All good input.  You folks are the only on-line resources that I trust.  Any further thoughts are very much appreciated.

Craig T.