Author Topic: R9s Rohrbaugh - 2nd range test - ammo evaluation.  (Read 7890 times)

Offline R9SCarry

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R9s Rohrbaugh - 2nd range test - ammo evaluation.
« on: June 23, 2004, 01:55:01 AM »
Mike and Frank .. here ya go! :)

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This program was designed to primarily evaluate Gold Dot ammunition thru this gun ....... altho some additions were made.

The content of the test is quite detailed and lengthy and so I decided for clarity and relative ease of formatting, to build some HTML pages to put on one of my servers.

Do please go take a look at Rohrbaugh R9s range test #2  ........ and feedback would be appreciated.  I have checked so far for links etc but - possibly not enough to get all gremlins gone!  It's been a long day!
Chris - R9S
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Offline FJC

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Re: R9s Rohrbaugh - 2nd range test - ammo evaluati
« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2004, 08:25:10 AM »


Random comments as I read through the great info you posted:

 - Wow the velocities on the Gold Dot 115gr were very consistant.  I like the extra 50fps on the 115gr.  Did you notice any difference in felt recoil between the 115gr and 124gr, or did they feel pretty much the same?

 - I was surprised at the spread on the Federal 9BP.  I didn't expect it to be as tight as the Gold Dots, but didn't expect it to vary quite as much as it did.

- The expansion data was very interesting (and yes, I know, it's a small test with a small sample and people aren't made of wet newspaper).  I do think it is useful information to compare how these rounds do at the reduced velocities from the shorter R9 barrels.  It seems Gold Dots are once again showing how well they expand at lower velocities.

As for the primer marks, I know SIGs often show that sort of mark.  Supposedly they are engineered to keep the firing pin slightly protruded during the extraction phase to keep debris out of the firing pin channel, so you can get drag marks like that on the primers.  I've often wondered if the rearward movement of the slide just causes the firing pin to protrude slightly due to momentum and cause that.  Perhaps that's what happens on the R9.

Thanks very much for this great information!  This will be very useful to many people.  One suggestion - you might want to add one more page that just has one big chart of all the chrono data, with one row for each type of ammo.  Then as you test more (or others provide chrono data) you can have a one-stop page for comparisons.

Oh - and sticky this post up so everyone can find the link to your data quickly. :)

--Frank C. (FJC)

Offline shooterjb

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Re: R9s Rohrbaugh - 2nd range test - ammo evaluati
« Reply #2 on: June 23, 2004, 10:10:55 AM »
Hi R9sCarry,

Thank you very much for the link and your data. I know that it was a lot of work to compile and you presented it very professionally. I also want to thank Mike and Frank (the other Frank) for providing the ammunition for your very useful tests. I couldn't begin to do the polished work on the project that you did and I am sure that your data will be useful to many, including myself.

One of my best investments was in a chronograph because, as someone once said, it takes the BS right out of it. Your wet newspaper tests were super in demonstrating expansion though too and I really appreciate your post of the results. Your results are especially useful to me because, although I have settled on Corbon 115 grain JHP +Ps at an average of 1249 fps out of my Kahr PM9 for carry in the PM9, I can't use them in the R9s I have ordered. Based on your tests, I am going to get some 115 grain Gold Dots to use for when I get the R9s until I get the chance to try some RBCDs in it.

Eric Rohrbaugh telephoned me last Thursday to get shipping instructions and to let me know that my R9S will be done soon, so your information is very timely for me. In fact, after having been on this forum for a little while, I want to thank everyone who has contributed to it for the wealth of information that they have shared. At my request, Ron Graham also did a very good review of the R9s on his forum. Thank you especially though for the results of your ammunition testing since that is the kind of useful information that is hard to come by. I appreciate it.

Frank

Offline DDGator

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Re: R9s Rohrbaugh - 2nd range test - ammo evaluati
« Reply #3 on: June 23, 2004, 11:39:29 AM »
Very impressive, R9SCarry -- a great addition to the forum.

Thank you very much.

I had already leaned toward Gold Dots -- they are also the LEO ammo of choice in my area.  Clearwater P.D. did extensive testing in .40 S&W and felt the Gold Dots were the clear winner in their S&W 99s.

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Offline flyandscuba

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Re: R9s Rohrbaugh - 2nd range test - ammo evaluati
« Reply #4 on: June 23, 2004, 11:45:47 AM »
A question regarding the expansion tests:  Were the better performers fired in the center of the wet pack as opposed to a corner?  Did expansion performance deteriorate with the rounds fired later into the test -- those first shot, better performance?

The one Golden Saber that was so distorted may have hit an earlier fired bullet.  As the integrity of the wetpack is compromised with successive shots, the expansion performance  will correspondingly deteriorate.

Great range report!  I know how the heavy wet packs can be a pain to handle and transport.  My range will not even allow their use.  I suspect that limiting five or six rounds to a given wetpack may produce more consistent results.

Thanks again for the range report -- and hard work.

BTW - hopefully the "dead soldier" used to prop up the wet pack wasn't consumed prior to the range session... :)
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Offline R9SCarry

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Re: R9s Rohrbaugh - 2nd range test - ammo evaluati
« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2004, 11:47:00 AM »
Hi ''Franks both''!!

Glad the info is useful . Certainly opened my eyes a bit once i got the results laid out.

Recoil? .. 115 and 124 ..... to be honest I did not notice any obvious difference.  I guess a +50 fps or so with 115's is offset by 9 grains less bullet weight .. tho of course the bullet deformation on those 115's was impressive.

The data idea .. excellent ..... indeed i will collate all the data so far and add another page to hold it all together for inspection.  Not sure when but .. very logical idea.

Frank (JB) ... glad you will soon have your piece .... and that the info was timely.  I hope it'll help a number of people feel a little more informed .... glad it helps.
Chris - R9S
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Offline R9SCarry

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Re: R9s Rohrbaugh - 2nd range test - ammo evaluati
« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2004, 12:07:00 PM »
Fly ..... re expansion tests .... no I don't think sequence or position affected results much at all.  The pack held together well too.  The errant Saber bullet dove so much deeper but, I couldn't match that to another bullet re an impact .. didn't even seem to go near that Fed that lost the jacket.  I agree, it does appear to have whacked something harder than wet paper!

Here is a small diag, which maybe I'll add to report ....



This is how the shots were placed .... and apart from a top left one that was too close to edge and got lost ... all others were pretty well separated . Enough I think to avoid loss of effect of paper and any significant interaction.  The test of course is far from perfect but I think should give fairly uniform results.

As I mentioned, struck me the failures re ecpansion were probably to critically low on vel for bullet design.

The ''dead soldier''?? . haha .... I am pleased to say, it was retrieved from the trash barrel .. I never drink at range .... only after 9pm in evenings!  Of course - its presence does prove that not everyone follows that rule.!
Chris - R9S
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R9 FAQ Site
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Offline flyandscuba

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Re: R9s Rohrbaugh - 2nd range test - ammo evaluati
« Reply #7 on: June 23, 2004, 12:21:55 PM »
I know that it's a +P load -- but I'd sure like to see how the 100gr Pow'R ball performed out of the R9s into the wet pack.  I expect the polymer ball would effectively expand the hollow point, even with reduced velocity.

I wouldn't use it as a practice load -- but I'm still considering it was a carry load.  I like the way it performs out of my HK P7.  Actually, I've begun to carry it in several calibers (9mm, .357 Sig., .40 S&W, and .45 ACP).
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Offline FJC

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Re: R9s Rohrbaugh - 2nd range test - ammo evaluati
« Reply #8 on: June 23, 2004, 02:02:45 PM »
By the way, ammoman.com used to have 500-rnd cases of the recalled 115gr Gold Dots for sale pretty inexpensively (I think I paid $119 for 1000? Something like that, and it included shipping).  These were recalled from some large police department due to hard primers.  I've shot hundreds of those and recalled 124gr Gold Dots with no problems.  

I don't carry them (they were recalled for a reason, after all, so I carry factory-fresh from 20 rounds boxes), but they make for great practice and reliability-testing rounds.

Anyway, might want to check there to see if he still has them cheap.  (I'm not affiliated with ammoman.com at all, btw).
--Frank C. (FJC)

Offline flyandscuba

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Re: R9s Rohrbaugh - 2nd range test - ammo evaluati
« Reply #9 on: June 23, 2004, 06:57:27 PM »
Looks like ammoman may be having some website problems.  I've ordered SS109 5.56mm ammo from him before, but can't get the website to open today.
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Offline MurrayNevada

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Re: R9s Rohrbaugh - 2nd range test - ammo evaluati
« Reply #10 on: June 23, 2004, 10:11:45 PM »
Chris:

Outstanding work.  I will definately be staying with the Gold Dot. 124gr until I run out and then probably go to the 115gr.  I usually stick with 124gr in 9mm because the proponents of light and fast and the proponents of slow and heavy both offer such good arguments for the 115gr and 147gr respectively.  I figure If I use the one in the middle (124gr) I can't go wrong.  The accuracy results of the 115gr and 124gr Gold Dot were more than acceptable for me.  The expansion for both was also better than I expected.  1000fps is also more than I expected from the short R9S barrel.  Thanks again for your report.  The hard work you performed for us all is "above and beyond."

Offline R9SCarry

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Re: R9s Rohrbaugh - 2nd range test - ammo evaluati
« Reply #11 on: June 23, 2004, 11:21:51 PM »
Mike - glad you found it all useful.  My thanks once more to you and Frank (FJC) for the ammo supply ... that helped a lot. I must make time to follow Frank's suggestion - re a whole page devoted to all chrono data accrued thus far  - and will maybe place that on the site somewhere under a specific heading ... but link to it.

I too was pleasantly surprised re the Gold Dot velocities and thus the very respectable muzzle energy.  Noting too that the 115's yielded over 400 ft lbs thru my Hi Power .. means this will be my only 9mm fodder from now on - cos I doubt we'll find anything better.  I would like to sample other stuff over time - just to compare further of course.

I know PowRball is rated well and will (in theory) reduce risk of HP ''clogging'' with fabric but .. have to say, the performance of the Speer bullet design is nothing short of outstanding.  I have seen similar pics from ballistric gel tests too.
Chris - R9S
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Offline 9mil.mouse

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Re: R9s Rohrbaugh - 2nd range test - ammo evaluati
« Reply #12 on: June 23, 2004, 11:25:20 PM »
Chris, thanks and great job!  ;D I've been partial to 9mm 115s for a long time. Now thanks to your research it will be Gold Dot 115s in my R9s from now on. Thanks again.

Offline FJC

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Re: R9s Rohrbaugh - 2nd range test - ammo evaluati
« Reply #13 on: June 24, 2004, 09:27:44 AM »
Quote
Looks like ammoman may be having some website problems.  I've ordered SS109 5.56mm ammo from him before, but can't get the website to open today.


Apparently they were down to change servers.  Back up now.  I see they still have the "practice only" 115gr Gold Dots at $89 shipped for 500 (I believe when I bought 1000 for around $119 they were on sale).    Still a fantastic price if you want to practice/reliability test with this ammo, as that brings a box of 20 down to $3.56 shipped.
--Frank C. (FJC)

Offline justin2992

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Re: R9s Rohrbaugh - 2nd range test - ammo evaluati
« Reply #14 on: July 14, 2004, 12:14:01 AM »
I went to ammoman.com they must have just raised the price again.  It shows $99 shipped for 500 and $149 shipped for 1000 rounds.
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