R-40 and R-45???

[flyandscuba]

I've heard rumors of plans to introduce a .40 S&W and .45 (GAP or ACP?) variant in the future.  Any truth to this??

[GeorgeH]

When the original concept was introduced at the SHOT show 2 or 3 years ago, the gun--only a mock-up existed--the concept was for a striker based pistol. The gun evolved over time. At that time, some preliminary thought was given to other calibers in the future. So I suspect, that if the R9 takes off, and some profit starts rolling in, I have no doubt that other calibers or models will be developed.

[DDGator]

For what is worth, Rohrbaugh is already working on (maybe finished) a .380 version.  I know that seems odd -- its the same size as the 9mm -- but its really designed for export.  Apparently you can't import a "military caliber" like 9mm to most European countries.

[flyandscuba]

Yep, that's why Kel-tec even has a P-11 in .380 caliber for export -- as does Glock (Model 25 & 28).  Another option would have been to chamber it in 9x21mm instead of 9x19mm.  Ballistics are basically the same, just a slightly longer case so the ammo isn't interchangable.

[musician]

If Rohrbaugh wants to stay true to the concept of the smallest, lightest major caliber pistol in the world, going to a .45 seems an anomoly, unless the thought then becomes producing the smallest, lightest .45 in the world.  But to keep it small (as in true pocket pistol), I wonder what the mag capacity would be--4+1?  For me anyway, if I want to carry a .45, I strap on my Kimber Stainless Pro Carry II Ultra (7+1), which is about as small and light as I personally want to handle with the .45 recoil.  And there is a limit to how small and slim one can craft a .40 or .45, notwithstanding the use of wondermetals like titanium or scandium.  I bought my R9S because it weighs almost nothing--demonstrably lighter than my guardian in .380.  A pocket pistol should not pull your trousers down on the carry side.  I can see maybe .357 Sig, but anything larger would turn the gun into something other than what is was envisioned to be.

[GeorgeH]

Scandium is mixed into aluminum, and in very small amounts--think 1%. But it adds greatly to the strength of the alloy.

As to the current platform, a 357 sig is a good choice.

But if I was Rohrbaugh, and if I had some money for R&D, what I would do is to work with a European alloy house to develop a proprietary alloy. In places like Germany, they have a great deal of experience with aluminum alloys, and if you want to alloy it with scandium, well that's where it is mined.

Titanium is difficult to work with, and not a good choice for a pocket pistol.

There will always be a market for a smaller, lighter, more potent pocket pistol.

[meltap45]

any pistol into which one can fit a 40sw/357sig could be made smaller and fit just a 9mm. If they can fit a 40sw into the R9, I would rather they try to get the R9 smaller and lighter. I think in fact that they would have to make it bigger with a heaver slide to handle the 40sw, which would place it out of the vestpocket "always" sized piece.

I would prefer them to work on making the thing lighter - perhaps a polymer frame?

[GeorgeH]

I like the Rohrbaugh just like it is. I have no doubt that the Rohrbaugh brothers tried to make their firearm the smallest, lightest 9 mm possible.

Look at the Kel Tec 380--a fine firearm, but there are wear problems. That gun uses plastic grip panels over a stamped frame. Yet, the Rohrbaugh is a 9mm but has about the same footprint. I can't see anyone get the package any smaller in a DAO/closed breech design.

[Jeff_OTMG]

I would say that a .40 and .45 are a safe bet.  The .357 SIG will not happen as far as I know.  I agree though, it doesn't get more perfect than as a 9mm.

[flyandscuba]

George,

The Kel-tec uses a rectangular frame that is machined from solid 7075-T6 aluminum.  The polymer grip slides over the solid (not stamped) frame and is pinned into place.  I've had no abnormal wear problems in my KTs (.32 ACP, .380 ACP, 9mm, .40 S&W, .357 Sig -- and now an experimental offering in .32 NAA).

Granted, the metal frame of the R-9 has some strengths, but at the sacrifice of weight -- my KT P-3AT may still be my "always" gun.  The true test will be how it "feels" in an RJ Hedley holster riding in my pocket in comparison to the P-3AT.

[MurrayNevada]

I do not notice a difference with the feel of my R9S when compared to my P3-AT when carried in my front right pocket.  I thought I would.  I now believe that size is more an issue than weight when it comes to how well a pistol pocket carries.

[Fud]

I would say that a .40 and .45 are a safe bet.  The .357 SIG will not happen as far as I know...

While I prefer the .40S&W and the .45ACP over the 9mm, I'm not sure if I want them in such a small package. I would think that it would be difficult to hang on to but, of course, I could be wrong and if they can keep the recoil to acceptable levels, I would definitely be interested in those calibers.

[harrydog]

Titanium is difficult to work with, and not a good choice for a pocket pistol.

I think titanium is actually a great choice for a pocket pistol. 6AL4V titanium has a significantly greater tensile strength than either 7075 Aluminum or Scandium/Aluminum alloy. Plus it has  higher fatigue strength. But like you said, it's difficult to work with.
Eric told me the reason they decided against using titanium was because it would have pushed the price of the gun much higher and they wanted to keep the cost under $1K. So really, the only drawback to using titanium is cost.

[FJC]

I can see a .45 version being feasible, since it is a low pressure cartridge.  Of course, they'd have to expand the gun a bit to fit the fatter size.

.40 S&W?  I don't see that happening.  Pressures are pretty high in that cartridge, and as we know the R9 is for standard pressure 9mm only (Rohrbaugh emphatically stresses that in quotes in the American Handgunner magazine article, by the way - NO +P!).  I think there'd be issues just handling standard .40 S&W rounds in the current design.

Of course, if it were beefed up for .45, that extra steel might allow .40 S&W rounds...

If today there were three versions, with the 9mm being smaller than the .45 or .40 version, I think I'd still opt for the 9mm.   I want that small package!

[shelb]

I think titanium is actually a great choice for a pocket pistol. 6AL4V titanium has a significantly greater tensile strength than either 7075 Aluminum or Scandium/Aluminum alloy. Plus it has  higher fatigue strength. But like you said, it's difficult to work with.
Eric told me the reason they decided against using titanium was because it would have pushed the price of the gun much higher and they wanted to keep the cost under $1K. So really, the only drawback to using titanium is cost.

I think with carbon fiber grips, this thing screams for Ti.  Of coarse, I am speaking as a road cyclist, and virtually my whole bike is Ti and carbon fiber.  I have been toying with the idea of cnc'ing a Ti frame somewhere down the road.    Gets me all excited....imagine the finish of raw Ti against the slide