Speer Gold Dot "Practice Ammo"

[musician]

I recently bought a box of 250 124gr. Speer GD ammo.  It was packaged loose in a plastic bag inside the 6x6x6 square box, which was labeled "practice ammunition" and "not for sale to law enforcement."  it was drastically cheaper than buying GD's by the 20 round box.

I had shot my R9s #148 about 200 times by then, so off to the range last Saturday with the above ammo.  Visual inspection of the stuff revealed typical GD hollowpoint bullets, but I noticed that the nickel finish on the cartridge cases was not uniform: some were polished, some were satin.

Up to that point, my R9s was accurate with premium GD's, even out to an amazing 75 yards.  However, the GD "practice ammo" gave me erratic accuracy and some keyholing.  Most of the 200 rounds of the practice ammo I shot Saturday was aimed at bowling pins and gongs, so I don't know how many total keyholed rounds I fired (but I do know I missed a lot more than I usually do--some rounds hit the revetment a good five feet from point of aim).  But when firing at paper silhouettes at about 12 feet, I noticed that 5 of the 20 rounds so fired keyholed.

Logical conclusions: (1) with ammo, like everything else, you get what you pay for; (2) even Speer makes marginal ammo for "non-premium" purposes; and (3)  >:(don't shoot this stuff in your R9 unless you want to be frustrated.

[DDGator]

I thought there was a big lot of Speer GDs that were normal loads, but with primers that had some question about their quality -- so they were designated as practice only.

The stuff you got seems to be different if you could see visual differences in the rounds.

[Datan]

I just ordered some of what sounds like the same ammo from ammoman.com (although a pic of the box shows 115gr rather than 124gr).  I'll be disappointed if I find the same thing.. it is very cheap for GDs but still more than other practice ammo that I know is accurate..  I'll let folks know what I find as well... THX for the info musician.

[shelb]

I just ordered some of what sounds like the same ammo from ammoman.com (although a pic of the box shows 115gr rather than 124gr).  I'll be disappointed if I find the same thing.. it is very cheap for GDs but still more than other practice ammo that I know is accurate..  I'll let folks know what I find as well... THX for the info musician.

I just got some of the 115 gr gold dots from ammoman last week.  Fired maybe 50 rounds of them so far.  No keyholing yet, but did have  a few fte's    

[Bandit]

the GD "practice ammo" gave me erratic accuracy and some keyholing.  Most of the 200 rounds of the practice ammo I shot Saturday was aimed at bowling pins and gongs, so I don't know how many total keyholed rounds I fired (but I do know I missed a lot more than I usually do--some rounds hit the revetment a good five feet from point of aim).  But when firing at paper silhouettes at about 12 feet, I noticed that 5 of the 20 rounds so fired keyholed.

I sure hope Mr. Winkle doesn't see this.  Kinda weakens the credibility of Dr. Ward's "Fact 5" retort.  

[shelb]

Are you trying to contribute constructively or just stir up the 'dogpile'?

[Bandit]

8/03/04
 
Dear Musician,
 
I am writing this letter in rebuttal to your most recent post on the Rohrbaugh R9S.  I am gravely disappointed with your lack of partisanship, due to the obvious point that you should check to make sure all your comments are positive, before you actually post your question.  Since your post is full of embarrasing information that is now propagated and perpetuated, I feel that I must censor point out these flaws and provide the correct information.

Fact:  Keyholeing.  Nowhere else, in our testing nor current posts has this ever happened been reported.  I was told personally witnessed Mr. Ayoob place 6 headshots at 10 yards into a broad side of a barn regulation IPSC target that could be covered by a satellite dish silver dollar.  I submit that the weapon ammunition choices, or just “flinching” caused your problem.

Very truly yours,
  
VP Constructive Comments Division

[MurrayNevada]

Wilco... I mean Bandit:
Why not be a bit more collegial.

[DDGator]

Bandit,

What is your agenda here? I think that everyone has been very acommodating in addressing your questions... yet you seem very combative.

Dissenters are welcome here, so long as they express their opinion politely and with some semblance of a point.  Negativity for the sake of provoking responses just brands a person as a "troll."

I am not sure whether your comments about "censorship" are directed to me or to Rohrbaugh Firearms.  As far as I know, nothing has ever been censored here other than perhaps a single post of hateful personal attacks, and a few profanities here and there (done automatically by this forum software). Oh -- and part of your post above -- which I will explain.

Your post above insinuates that Rohrbaugh and perhaps others are in some kind of conspiracy, or are liars, or both.  I find that offensive.  I will leave it up because others will appreciate the glimpse into your personality and will better understand this response.

I did edit your post to take out the name and address that made your letter appear to be coming from Rohrbaugh.  Whether parody or not -- that is not appropriate.

Is this a "partisan" place?  YES -- by definition.  Go to the Glock forum and bash Glocks or the S&W Forum and bash S&Ws.  The reponses you will get are predictable.  This is a gathering place for people who LIKE Rohrbaugh guns, or who just want to find out more about them.

I will ask you to be more collegial in you postings.  Ultimately I have to ask myself whether a forum member is adding anything to the mix or just causing trouble.  If you aren't adding anything, you aren't worth the aggravation.

[Richard S]

Duane:

That is eloquent.  I could not have said it better.  Well done and well said!

RS

[shelb]

8/03/04
 
Dear Musician,
 
I am writing this letter in rebuttal to your most recent post on the Rohrbaugh R9S.  I am gravely disappointed with your lack of partisanship, due to the obvious point that you should check to make sure all your comments are positive, before you actually post your question.  Since your post is full of embarrasing information that is now propagated and perpetuated, I feel that I must censor point out these flaws and provide the correct information.

Fact:  Keyholeing.  Nowhere else, in our testing nor current posts has this ever happened been reported.  I was told personally witnessed Mr. Ayoob place 6 headshots at 10 yards into a broad side of a barn regulation IPSC target that could be covered by a satellite dish silver dollar.  I submit that the weapon ammunition choices, or just “flinching” caused your problem.

Very truly yours,
  
M. Shelb
VP Constructive Comments Division

Bandit,
I hope you realize my comment was directed at your person and not musician.  I don't mind negativity; its healthy for a the product.  In fact I posted of a negative experience with R9 earlier today.....but frankly, your posting in a manner that is antagonistic and lacks class.

[shelb]

Bandit,
Your post above insinuates that Rohrbaugh and perhaps others are in some kind of conspiracy, or are liars, or both.  I find that offensive.  I will leave it up because others will appreciate the glimpse into your personality and will better understand this response.

I did edit your post to take out the name and address that made your letter appear to be coming from Rohrbaugh.  Whether parody or not -- that is not appropriate.

How about removing my name from the childish diatribe?

[R9SCarry]

Funny how - from time to time - there comes along one of them itches - you just can't scratch!  

[Bandit]

DDGator-

My comments about censorship were not directed at you or Rohrbaugh.  The name that was signed to the letter, and the post that preceded it, was the reason for the parody.

I have no agenda other than seeing things from both sides of an issue.  When I find inconsistencies within heavily one-sided arguments, I call them out.

I find it amusing that my comments drew such ire, while ones similar to the ones below, routinely are overlooked or are somehow deemed "constructive":

What a great rebuttal Dr. Michael Ward presented to that [glb]useless, misleading, and self-serving  piece of drivel[/glb] published by Gun Tests!  [glb]Lo, how the pompous are deflated[/glb].

After reading Mr. Ward's rebuttal, I am canceling my subscription to Gun Tests. They are not only as bad as the regular firearms magazines, but much worse since they do such a good job of pretending to be objective. The word [glb]"Slimy"[/glb] comes to mind.

BTW, I don't have to bash Glocks at Glocktalk, because there already are plenty of members who highlight problems they experience with their glocks, and who are not insecure to discuss the issues they have or the limitations of their guns....that's what makes it such a great forum.

I believe you do a good job here too.  I especially like it when you post an entire review (or at least as much of it as you feel you safely legally can), and leave it for your readers to decide.  I don't much care for those, however, that feel they have to rush to the defense of the rohrbaugh, "bash" away at one side of an issue, then act offended when someone poses an alternate viewpoint.

I apologize if you feel my comments haven't been "collegial".  I guess in hindsight I didn't realize the continual backslapping and positive reinforcement some require to enjoy a discussion on a gun forum:

Hey! With that post, I just got promoted to full member.  Thanks, DDGator!

   

[BillinPittsburgh]

Hi Bandit,

I case you hadn't noticed, the original post in this thread discusses a problem with a specific type of ammo, not the gun.

The gun is already known to be ammo-sensitive, which is not unusual for something on the cutting edge of size/stopping power development, for example, Seecamp.

Even so, the ammo in question was labeled "practice only" indicating that the manufacturer didn't consider it suitable for anything else in any gun.