Speer Gold Dot Practice Ammo, the real story!

[akbound]

I read with interest the earlier post concerning the Speer Gold Dot.  Instead of someone offering the real information concerning the ammo, for the benefit of board members, someone uses the issue to troll another point.  (Or it appeared that way.)  So for the benefit of all who either have, or can access the Speer "Practice Ammo", here is the real story.  (As I learned from another forum member.)

Speer Gold Dot Bulk Ammo: Demystified
Just got off the phone with the CCI / Speer rep, who clarified things with the following details regarding their bulk pack Gold Dots:

* In late 2001, Speer switched from their normal foil-sealed ignition system to to a foil-less primer.

* In late 2002, in-house Quality Control tests 100 rounds from each lot and finds an "increase in misfires [equating to] 1 in 50,000."

* Decision is made (in early 2003) to not sell any ammo to Law Enforcement without a foil primer.

* All lots in question were again "retested" several times over, with Quality Control finding the lots "still met normal minimum [in-house] standards."

* Decision is made to sell Gold Dot (without foil primer) to retailers and thousands of 50 round boxes (once intended for LE) are emptied into larger boxes of loose ammo equalling 250 rounds.

* Speer legally covers themselves by selling it as "reclassified ammo" with new labels that identify it as practice ammo and not suitable for LE use.

* "Lots in question were made between late 2001 and early 2003."

Hope this clears things up; glad the PD's weren't foiled!  
__________________
Stick with American made ammo because prevention is always much better than redemption.

I hope this helps to answer some questions!

Dave

[GeorgeH]

Thank you for the up-date.

[musician]

'Afternoon, akbound--
     I started the original thread about this ammo.  MY point was to share anecdotal information I observed using this ammo in my pistol.  It took off on a huge tangent unrelated to the original posting, got ugly, and was locked down by Gator.  My experience with this ammo did occur, and I shared it.  Your post seems to attack my information, as if it did not happen or that somehow my information is fallacious.  I still have about 40 rounds left.  If you want to come to my range and shoot it up in my pistol, I think you'll have the same experience I did.  (In case you missed it, I did say the ammo shot fine in my HK P7.)

     I do appreciate the info you got from Speer.

Musician

[Datan]

I received the same information regarding the primer change from Eric @ ammoman.com.  He also reports that he has not received feedback from customers on a single misfire yet (you decide on the confidence level of info coming from someone selling you something.. I got the feeling that he was honestly representing the situation).  I ordered 1000 rounds of 115GR GDs at standard pressure for the R9S and another 1000 rounds of the 124GR +P for my other 9mm's.  I won't shoot the +P 124GR through the R9S so I can't add to the keyholing conversation of the 124GR.  I can say that I haven't experienced any issues in the 50 rounds of the 115GR GDs that I've put through the R9S.

[akbound]

Hi musician,

My mistake, I apologize.  Believe it or not I read the entire thread but obviously not as carefully as I'd remembered by the end of page two as I thought I had.  Bandit was the one that seemed to be trolling, not you.

As to the rest of the information I have no reason to doubt what you said happened to you, did in fact happen to you.  I did post the information I was provided elsewhere as to why the Speer ammo had been bulk packed.  I did that for the benefit of anyone wondering why.

Additionally I have purchased the Speer bulk packs in both 9x19 with 147 grain Gold Dots, and the Speer bulk packs in .40S&W with 180 grain Gold Dots.  I have personally shot over 1000 in aggregate in the two loads mentioned and have not experienced any of the problems you did, (or for that matter, any other problems either).  I've fired the 9x19 in a Glock G26, a Taurus PT92AF, and a XD9 SubCompact, (but never a R9 or R9S).  The .40 S&W I fired from a XD40 4", a Ruger P94, a Ruger PC4GR, and a SIGPRO 2340.  So in that regard I can only offer my anecdotal experiences as well for consideration.  

I can't explain the differences in observed performance.  But once again I apologize for my earlier mistake.  Hopefully you'll accept it?

Dave

[musician]

Good morning, akbound,
     Apology not necessary, but gratefully accepted.  My 9mil. experience is not as vast as yours (my only other 9mil. is a HK P7), but I'm glad to know that your broader experience with the subject ammo is all good.  Maybe I'll try another lot but of a different bullet weight and see how it performs in the R9s.  As I said previously, Speer's premium stuff works flawlessly and is accurate in my Rohrbaugh.

     Since you seem to have an information pipeline on ammo. do you know anything about why Federal's new version of the .40S&W Hydroshock is marked "Not for sale to Law Enforcement"?

Musician

[Bandit]

i don't agree with your interpretation either, akbound

i merely pointed out that the last person that alleged they experienced "keyholing" was ridiculed by Rohrbaugh VP and accused of "flinching", who went on to say no one else has ever reported this problem....pretty harsh words in light of musician's post i thought

BTW, its contradictory to champion one of the Bill of Rights while denouncing the others....

[akbound]

Hi musician,

My experience is by no means vast, for certain.  As a matter of fact the manufacturer's information I received about the Speer Gold Dot Bulk Packs I obtained by chance from a member on another forum that had made the call to Speer.  The anecdotal information I provided concerning those bulk packs listed was from my personal shooting experience of the ammo in question.

I haven't heard anything, (and have no personal experience), with Federal's bulk pack!


Bandit,

I didn't denounce your right to speak freely on any subject.  But that doesn't mean your post didn't appear "to be trolling" either, as "I interpretted it".  It wasn't the fact that you pointed out that musician's post accounted for a "second instance" of keyholing.  Which on it's surface could seem to be a corroboration of the earlier report of keyholing.  If you had done that, and then questioned the possibility of an issue or a problem, I wouldn't have perceived your posts the way I did.  It's the fact that you took musician's report and attempted to use it to show that the earlier refutation of the publication's review was blatantly false, on it's face.  Which in and of itself is not necessarily indicative of fact!  

If in fact that wasn't your intent, then you may correct me.  But my interpretation of what you posted certainly was as I just stated.  Now, would you desire to deprive me of my right to speak freely as I understand things!

For the record, I am in no way affiliated with Rohrbach, nor do I currently own one, and I have no ax to grind.  And I stand by my earlier assertions.  But I'm willing to stand corrected if I misread your original intentions!

Dave

[MurrayNevada]

Congratulations Bandit, akbound has been a member for less than a week and you have already pizzed him off.  You always manage to demonstrate your wonderful "people skills." May I suggest "How to Win Friends and Influence People" by Dale Carnegie?  It may make a difference in your life.  

[Bandit]

I believe it's called Wil-colitus.  Very tragic disease.

 Now THAT'S comedy.

Duane:
Can you put a RJHedley 14 day countdown clock on the site?

  Jocularities!

Murray - I can only dream of one day having as razor-sharp a wit as the above hilarious one-liners indicate you possess.  The class clowning in shop class has really paid off.  Why read that book you suggested when I can mire myself in your hilarious and informative posts? Thanks for the spiritual boost, buddy!  

[RJ HEDLEY]

"A troll is a bulletin board participant who posts for one or both of two reasons: 1) to disrupt; 2) to gain attention."

Bandit, you have arrived...

[MurrayNevada]

Bandit:
You just don't get it, do you?  Most of us enjoy getting along, joking a bit, and sharing common interests.  You seem to delight in being difficult.  

[shelb]

blah blah blah

[Richard S]

Bandit:

This is not my web site, but you are beginning to become . . . (How shall I say this?) . . . predictably boring?  

You obviously have some experience in matters relevant to the Forum and a good command of the English language, but you seem never to have anything constructive to add -- only criticism and disagreement.  It would appear that you are interested only in debate, not in sharing experience or knowledge.

You remind me of a line from one of my favorite movies:  "Always the negative waves . . . always the negative waves."  [From one of your previous postings, it would appear that you seem to have some familiarity with the movie, "Animal House."  Perhaps, then,  you will have seen the movie, "Kelly's Heroes."]  

Is there some reason why you choose not to engage in constructive dialogue on this Forum -- or is this all just a semantic game with you?  As I asked you in a previous posting (to which you never responded), "From where are you coming, and to where do you want to go?"  What is it that you want?  What is your agenda?

I am certain that you would be welcome here and not have to worry about any "double-secret probation" if you would just lighten up, "sit down at the campfire," and join the discussion in a constructive and collegial manner.

RS

[MurrayNevada]

Bandit:
I see that you think I'm funny.  I have a few questions about that:

I'm funny how? Funny like a clown? I amuse you? I make you laugh? I'm here to friggin' amuse you?  How am I funny, like a clown? What is so funny about me? What the FUGG is so funny about me? Tell me. Tell me what's funny