The Rohrbaugh Forum
Rohrbaugh Products and Accessories => Rohrbaugh R9 (all variations) => Topic started by: jhmedrano on February 24, 2011, 06:39:17 PM
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Ok guys so am at work and am bored, and i figure i start a thread about the second best micro 9mm because we all know wats the number one micro 9 in the world..of course its the pup :) well unfortunately for it cost me alot of time and money. Time, because well since i been carrying which isnt too long going on too 2 years i never knew about this magnificant lil pup, and as far as cost well i have bought ever micro gun in the market well alnost al from the kahr to kel-tec to the sig p238 and lcp, but we will stick to the micro nine only one i havent fired is the new kimber solo which is a joke in my opinion its still way heavier still bigger etc but anyways after much range time my personal experience i would say that as a second place nott a close second to the pup but just a second would be the kahr pm9, just wondering if u guys agree? And wat u guys thought about and of course pleasd compare against the pup. Gigi
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The lead dog has the best view. Why look backwards?
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IMO 2nd place is the pm9
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I would vote for the PM9 also, but the PM40 is nearly identical in size and only 1.8 oz heavier.
I would rather have that 180gr 40 cal slug.
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I would have to agree, the PM9 is no. 2 for now, however the Kimber Solo may just knock it off its perch.
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PM9, 2nd place, gets my vote.
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S&W 940? ;D
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Am glad most agree now as far as the pm40 am not sure if u own or shot one mr. Yakee but that thing is a handful and the weight and thickness is noticible but yes it does shoot the .40 slug, but will save it for another comparo since wer doing 9mm :), as for the kimber solo like one of the member mentioned i would find it a lil hard to dethrone the pm9 as second place cuz of its weight 17oz like tankee mentioned the pm40 if am gonna carry that heavy of a gun i rather carry a bigger caliber its not slimmer than the pm9 its prolly the same not counting the controls which u do have to include cuz some of those like p238 stick out enough to bug when ur carrying it iwb which is my prefered way of carry.
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I own a PM40 and had a PM9 but traded it for my second Pup, I also have the P380.
The two PMs are so close in size you can use the same holsters for them. Also the mag extensions I sell will fit the PM9.
I don't find the PM9 or PM40 to be a good pocket gun, too heavy for my liking.
The PM40 ______ PM9
OAL 5.35 _______ 5.3
High 4.0 _______ 4.0
Wide .94 _______ .90
Weight 15.8 ____ 14
W/O mag
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Am glad most agree now as far as the pm40 am not sure if u own or shot one mr. Yakee but that thing is a handful and the weight and thickness is noticible but yes it does shoot the .40 slug, but will save it for another comparo since wer doing 9mm :), as for the kimber solo like one of the member mentioned i would find it a lil hard to dethrone the pm9 as second place cuz of its weight 17oz like tankee mentioned the pm40 if am gonna carry that heavy of a gun i rather carry a bigger caliber its not slimmer than the pm9 its prolly the same not counting the controls which u do have to include cuz some of those like p238 stick out enough to bug when ur carrying it iwb which is my prefered way of carry.
I think that's the longest sentence I've ever read on a forum. lol
My vote goes to the PM9 as well.
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Wow! A S&W 940. I had one of those once. Beautiful little gun. A bit heavy and a bit to wide for me to carry concealed but a really nice piece, moon clips and all. 5 shots, I do not know if I could make it no.2 on this list but a nice gun.
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My vote is the PM9, for number 1 not number 2.
This is my opinion only. I have carried a R9 and a PM9. The R9 I owned had major reliability problems and the PM9 has been 100% reliable. I found the PM9 easier to shoot more accurately at a fast rate of fire. I think replacement grips and hooked extensions on the R9 would have probably brought the two closer together. I much prefer the conventional mag release and slide catch on the Kahr. With the "heel mag catch" I personaly do not think I would carry it as primary. The more I shot the PM9 the more I liked it.
My R9 weighed 18.0 oz. with 7 rounds of 115 gr ammo, the PM9 weighs 19.7 oz. Now that is 10% which is considerable, but I found it barely noticable in my pocket.
The reliability factor was probably what decided it for me. I decided on the PM9 instead of:
-Sending the R9 back to have the relibility issue fixed
-Spending money on replacement grips
-spending money on mag extensions or front strap checkering
I could have done all this and still prefered the PM9.
This is my opinion only! Gentlemen, carry what you are most comfortable with.
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Here where I live, the PM9 by far seems to be the carry gun of choice, almost everyone I know has one except me!
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I believe the Kimber Solo is going to come in around 17 oz. empty. Do not know how much the loaded mag will add, I assume about the same as the others. Oh yes, as I said I do agree the PM9 is number 2 at this moment.
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The Kahr PM9 was on my short list as #2 until I held one. I consider it too heavy for a pocket gun. Just my (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-forum/2c.gif) (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php)
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I just weighed my PM9 empty and it weighs 16.2 oz with an empty mag. That means the Solo should come in at 20.5 oz loaded if Kimber's advertised weights are correct. I have found that the advertised weights are usually lower than actual.
I would love to get a Solo but I haven't even seen one yet. One sold on GB yesterday for $1001.00 plus freight. MSRP is $725.00.
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Yeah I saw that on. Both the PM9 and the Solo are heavy for pocket. But both are easily concealable in other ways. I am going to wait for a little bit seriously look at the Solo. That price is ridiculous unless you have money you do not need. I would not pay more than the MSRP and I bet you will be able to get them for $100 or so less. It does look like a nice pistol though.
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Well mrc you are definitely right in alot of things, for one thing the pm9 is easier to shooot and can definitely go to the range and shoot 100 shots with no hurt like the pup, quite frankly if urs hasnt been reliable then its totally understanble to put the pup in the second place or even last right? I mean wat good is a gun thats not reliable.
But give the pup a chance to be reliable and youll soon put it in number one!
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As far as the ability to pocket carry certain pistols I believe we all, including myself, let an ounze or two of weight affect our decision on what to carry. I tried carrying the R9 and PM9 on an every other day basis and I surprised myself that I really did not notice the 1.7 oz difference in the two. If weight was the factor I would carry my LWS 380 every day, but I do not have much confidence in my ability to defend myself with that gun.
Presently I carry both a PM9 and a Kahr P380 depending on what I wear and where I am going. The bulge from the bigger PM9 is much more noticible to me then the extra weight.
Everyone dresses different and has different likes and dislikes, so it isn't a one size fits all world. I still would like to get another R9 but the only reason I can come up with is
I like "cool guns" and they certainly are that.
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Definitely coooll gun but functinal, yea i might get a .380 for work so i can ankle carry but the only .380 i can think of that i would anle carry is keltec p3at. Kahr p380 is nice but ishhh to many options for cheaper now if it wer smaller and lighter than the competition then i dont care how muvh money it cost, hence me buying the r9 :) but for that monry even though its heavier i like the p238 from sig. Just my two cents
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I also put the PM9 at #1 and the R9 at #2. I consider the R9 a last ditch, backup gun (but a very high quality one). The PM9 has actual sights (mine has night sights), is softer shooting and much more controllable, even with +p. Not to mention the PM9 locks the slide back on empty and has a frame mounted mag release. All things I want in my main carry gun. The PM9 is just barely pocketable for me, but I usually carry it IWB.
But the R9 is unbeatable as a close range, backup, back pocket gun. It's nice to have another 7 rounds available without a mag change.
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MRC, you have some excellent points regarding the PM9 and the R9. Let me add my thoughts into this "gentleman’s discussion".
I started with a PM9 and ended with 2x R9s. Let me start by saying that I feel the PM9 is an excellent pistol and as far a shootablity, follow-up accuracy and features (sights, slide release) it wins over the R9. However as a "pocket 9mm" the R9 is superior in my opinion for 3 reasons.
1) As a lefty the mag release on my Kahr (PM9) would always be inadvertently engaged both in my pocket and IWB. I would come home and empty my font pocket and have the mag hit the floor. I shudder to think what would happen in a defensive scenario. I know this is not an issue for allot of people but it is for me, the R9s and Seecamp heal mag release is preferred and it is a deal breaker for me. (Of note the LCP has a recessed mag release)
2) On two separate PM9 mags, I experienced broken mag followers at the range. This does not bode well for a carry gun
See photo http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd171/chihuahuatn/Guns/MAG1.jpg
3) I can barely pocket the PM9, where as I can always pocket my R9. I feel that the PM9 is a great IWB gun but not a great pocket gun. For the record I own a Kahr P380 and Kahr TP9 and I feel that Kahr makes great guns. I think a PM9 vs PPS is a better comparison.
I was delighted to see new “micro 9’s” being produced however I don’t think I will be getting any to replace my R9s. The Kimber solo’s length is too long, Sigs P290 is blocky and heavy 20.5oz not loaded (see Nutsnfancys review), and the LC9 dimensions are too big for pocket carry. I’m sure there going to be great guns and I probably will own one of them.
I am sorry your R9 experienced these problems
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The only time I have ever had any trouble with a conventional magazine release was with a pony pocket-lite and that was just once and I purchased a decent holster and that eleviated that problem.
I had my PM9 out yesterday weighing it so I carried it the rest of the day and night and it was no more noticable than my P380 which I have been carrying more lately.
Here are some comparison charts and really there is not much size difference. Add the thickness of the R9's oversize grips necessitated by their trigger bar system, the thickness is the same. The PM9 is "taller" just because it has real sights. The 10% weight difference is really the only factor and for me, it is negligible.
The main difference is the R9's 'sleek good looks' vs. the Kahrs 'ugly Glock-like square slide look'.
http://www.seecamp.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1297471836
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There is another subjective difference of the R9 and that is the "Rolex" feel of tactile quality that gives it an edge over most others.
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I still would like to get another R9 but the only reason I can come up with is
I like "cool guns" and they certainly are that.
MRC. Hope you do get another R9. I think your interest is still certainly there. A "cool gun" is great reason to get one. :)
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An interesting thread. My vote for 2nd best micro 9mm is:
" "
Yeah - that's blank on purpose - because I don't feel that there is any other true micro 9mm besides the R9.
I was tempted to vote for the Kahr PM9 until I handled one a few weeks ago and concluded that for me it is not really a micro - it's a small 9mm but not really pocketable, being both too heavy to be comfortable and too big to fit in my pocket and conceal well. While I'm sure it would be easy to carry IWB (as the R9 is) if I'm going to carry IWB there are a lot of other options I'd pick before I'd carry a PM9 - and for that matter there are other options I'd probably pick before carrying my R9 IWB. Most notably my H&K P2000SK in a Compu-Tac IWB holster is as easy to carry and conceal IWB as my R9 is but it's 9+1 of .40 S&W and I'll opt for the more powerful round when I can.
Unless I can carry a gun in my pocket and have it virtually disappear it's probably not the option I'd choose. I do have to admit that I have an IWB holster for my R9 and sometimes use it - but those occasions arise when the R9 is all I have with me and the wardrobe of the day dictates IWB instead of pocket carry.
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I do not think you can look at a gun I say it will not pocket carry. Look at he comparison charts and give me a legitimate reason. I say you must put it into your pocket for a few days. I had the PM9 before the R9 as it was in the summer of 2009 at the height of the CCW buying frenzy. When a R9 came up on GB in September at a decent price I jumped on it.
My first three trips to the range were disasters. Not a complete magazine with six different brands of ammo. I did not give up on it then. Thats when I decided to carry the two guns on an ervery other day basis for a comparrison to see if the R9 was worth putting $200 to $300 into to make it work and be more shootable. I decided the PM9 was the way to go.
The R9 also had an extremely rough bore which in my and my gunsmith's opion made it unsellable. I sent pictures to Rohrbaugh and Eric had Maria tell me that all their barrels looked like that and it doesn't affect function so why would I care. I asked to talk to Eric and they decided to buy the gun back instead of fixing it for a customer. The end of my R9.
KJ, you asked to see the pictures so I emailed them to you. Tell the forum members what you thought of the barrel.
If anyone one would like to see them, PM me your addres and I would gladly show you what Eric calls normal.
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KJ, you asked to see the pictures so I emailed them to you. Tell the forum members what you thought of the barrel.
If anyone one would like to see them, PM me your addres and I would gladly show you what Eric calls normal.
Well, I definitely didn't think it was normal. My first one didn't look like that and the two I have now doesn't look like that, however, I felt like Rohrbaugh would compensate you to your satisfaction and they did.
I really do hope you get another R9. I'm going for #3 soon as I find a Robar NIB.
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Thanks Kj.
I had two things in mind when I sent the pictures to Rohrbaugh.
1) I was sure that they would replace the barrel so I would be able to sell the gun.
2) While it was at the factory getting rebarreled, maybe they would fix the functioning problems and by the time it got back I would have calmed down enough to keep it.
Ultimately I got my money back sans the freight both ways($100) so I guess I got one of my goals. The one thing that pissed me off was I had to get mad before they would make a move of any kind and I have never been treated like that on any type of warranty work by any other manufacturer. Plus I nor anyone I have talked to have ever heard of a gun manufacturer "buying their problems" back. Have you?
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Have not! That being said, I am a Rohrbaugh fan and hope you will be one, soon.
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MRC, respectfully when you exam los's diagrams what is not apparent is the blocky appearance of the PM9. The slide of the R9 is not blocky but rather streamlined/curved (hard to describe in cross-section) and thats why it conceals better in the pocket. IWB is another story... I carry my R9 in a desantis superfly for the LCP/Kel Tec 3AT and it works perfectly, I can't do that with my former PM9.
The only issue I had with my R9 was one singe round of Gold Dot that would not fire; it would also not fire in my Hi-Power and 92 FS.
You know as gun affectionados we all discuss small details and insignificant points most of the time, but if you have reliable PM9 that suits perfectly as your primary carry concealed then there is no need for a R9. In other words life is good in the concealed carry world.
Mike
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Mike - I do agree with the slide profile being a factor. That is more important to the carryaility of the R9 than the 1.7 oz everyone complains about.
From an engineering stand point, the mass of the slide in my opinion, is what makes the PM9 easier to shoot. Changing the profile would improve the looks and concealablity, but it would also change the whole diynamics of the gun when firing. The heavier slide, the offset feed ramp, the lighter and more durable polymer frame, and the agressive texturing of the grips make the gun easier to shoot and able to handle +P ammo.
The R9 is made for your pocket, the PM9 is made to shoot.
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If the R9 is not made to shoot, a lot of us have wasted money.
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Mine shoots and has yet to show any vices.
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The R9 is meant to be carried often and shot very seldom.
That is not a quote of mine
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The R9 is meant to be carried often and shot very seldom.
That is not a quote of mine
Indeed, that paraphrases a comment once made by Karl Rohrbaugh explaining that he designed the R9 primarily for use as a self-defense weapon rather than as a recreational or competition range gun.
This link to a discussion back in 2004 might be relevant in the present context, particularly the third paragraph in the second part of the opening post:
http://www.rohrbaughforum.com/YaBB.cgi?board=R9S;action=display;num=1091220026;start=1#1
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And here is a link to the video (made in 2004, I believe) in which Karl Rohrbaugh is shown demonstrating the R9 and in which he made the comment paraphrased:
http://www.thingameez.com/vid-download/r9-karl-demo.wmv
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Finally, I can't help but post a link to my favorite review of the Rohrbaugh R9 series -- an article written by Roy Huntington, Publisher and Editor of American Hangunner magazine.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BTT/is_194_32/ai_n25469392/?tag=content;col1
Huntington's concluding comments mirror my own thoughts about the Rohrbaugh R9:
[size=10]I just bought a Rohrbaugh pistol, an R9S. It's the one shown in the photo comparing sizes with other small handguns. After all these years, all those dreams, all the small guns I've gone through during my searches over the years, all the frustrations when I've found them to be wrong; I can honestly say I found the gun for this role. I readily admit it's just my opinion, and I would be disappointed if everyone agreed with me. But I have to tell you, this is one very nifty pocket gun, and it delivers everything it promises--and a bit that's intangible.
Think about the feeling you have when you finally get that special pocket knife you've always wanted. The one with ancient ivory scales, Damascus blades, gold inlay and your name on it. It's safe, clipped to your pocket, and you are aware it's there at some level and you feel just a bit ... what? ... smug? And, you probably also feel, well, contented? You find yourself smiling for no particularly good reason. A mini-version of "All is right with the world." At least your world--at that moment.[/size]
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Good discussion. Thank you to tracker for his "Rolex" comment regarding the R9 and Richard for his nostalgic links to the past.
I looked at the Kimber Solo but I don't like hammerless guns. I have a Sig P290 on order and hope to get it within the next couple of weeks. The reason I ordered one is because of the options and features:
1. Frame mounted mag release
2. Sights
3. Slide remains open after last shot fired
4. Slide release/takedown lever
5. (Perceived) simplicity of takedown and reassembly
6. Shoots +P ammo
7. It's a Sig
I owned a Kahr in the 1990's, when the gun was new to the market, and had a double spring failure at the range after 200 rounds. That tainted my view toward Kahr and I have never considered one since. I do recall a very smooth trigger pull.
My expectation, with the P290, is that it will be slightly larger than the R9 and certainly heavier. I doubt that it will rival the "Rolex" quality of the R9 but I am really looking forward to this gun nonetheless.
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ACP; and thanks for your comments on the Sig P290. Always good to look forward to getting a new gun. Seems like I'm always antisipating something. Now have the Glock 17, Gen 4; so now two Glocks. These things just keep on ticking, so to speak.
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Thank you for your encouragement kjtrains. This is the first time since the R9 that I have purchased the gun without having had it in my hand.
They are two different guns but the price point on the P290 is compelling; 1/2 of what I paid for a standard R9 and 1/3 of what I paid for my Robar R9.
Time will tell if I like the P290 but I have a feeling that i am going to really like this gun; (despite its limitations of slightly smaller size, heavier weight and wide girth).
Some bloggers question why the P290 is so "fat" and heavy for a single stack carry gun, but again I can live with it. Please note, anything is better than living in New Jersey, my former state, in which all CCW guns were the same weight; Zero Ounces! (Think about it).
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I held the P290 at SHOT and didn't love it as much as I had hoped -- so far. I hope the shooting performance changes my mind.
My biggest issue was that the grip was so short I could barely get two fingers on the gun.
Nevertheless, I should have one of the first P-290s in circulation -- for review in Shooting Illustrated.
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Our Administrator has the advantage over me in that he has had a P290 in his hand. However, the grip doesn't bother me. My expectation is that I will be able to get two fingers on the grip leaving the little finger in my right hand without purchase on the grip; just like the R9.
Since I am an R9 partisan and will own both guns, it is not "either/or" for me. However, given the options and features of the P290, and its price point, I predict Sig will do well.
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I actually think the P290 grip is shorter than the R-9 just because of the way the gun is set up. I could be wrong. It was about 1.5 fingers for me.
I can post some picks when I get it. Sounds like still a week or two.
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Duane: I would love to see pictures when you have them. Right now I am 4 weeks invested into what was quoted as "2 - 6 weeks". Meanwhile, I have managed to offend the Sig Rep.
When I tried to expedite my gun he told me "those guns should be starting to ship next week so you should see your gun soon depending upon the order sequence." Italics added to illustrate my frustration.
I went back to the Sig Rep and said what he told me was the next best thing to information.
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Well guys am.back lol been busy hadnt had time to check the lil discussion i started, i have to it kinda took a diferent turn? But its still fun nonetheless, anyhow i seen that mr. Acp ordered a nee sig p290...... well if i may i will post my opinion on it first of i have to say am a big sig fan love sig!! Etc. There great and wen i heard that they were making a small ninr i was extatic to say the least, but....wen i seen the specs and stsrted to see the gun i was once again dissapointed by sig with yet another small ccw pistol the first one was the p238, (see my other post in other guns of my 1 to 5 best small .380) anyhow first of i can understand why someone would order it...its a sig!! Nuff said buy the fact that its chunky, pretty ugly in my book and it weight at almost 20 ounces in a market where we have a keltec at $300 weighing 12.7 ounces no mag of course that still shoots a 9mm, wat is sig thinking?????? And of course am noy even gonna mention the pup. You got diamondback brand coming out wit wat suppose to a 11 ounce pocket nine which is suppose to be pretty much the size of their .380 thats the kind of pocket nines i wish everybody came out wit, in my book sig p290 is very late cuz wen i think of a p290 sized gun i think i rather stick wit the glock 26. Sorry guys but it really bugs me that a company i love would come out wit such a big and heavy gun to today standards. Love the forums you guts are great sorry if a rammbled on. Lol
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My R9 #1. My PM9 sits in the case. It has been back to Kahr 3 times and I just don't trust it.
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Bowhunter:
Welcome; your experience with the Kahr is like my own, referenced above. I got rid of it and never looked back, although I am sure that there are those who like Kahrs.
I am not having a warm feeling about receipt of the P290 I ordered as I am getting feedback from dealers and word of mouth that Sig overstated their ability to deliver following the Shot Show.
This is typical with a gun that is new to the market with great demand and little supply and I don't know what is real and what is rumor. Do I still want the P290? Sure, but my Robar R9S continues to be my (coveted) EDC gun.
Have you ever considered carrying a concealed bow?
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I have a PM40 and a P380 I like both very much, they have been 100% from day one. The P380 is the best shooting small 380 I have ever shot.
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Bowhunter:
Welcome; your experience with the Kahr is like my own, referenced above. I got rid of it and never looked back, although I am sure that there are those who like Kahrs.
I am not having a warm feeling about receipt of the P290 I ordered as I am getting feedback from dealers and word of mouth that Sig overstated their ability to deliver following the Shot Show.
This is typical with a gun that is new to the market with great demand and little supply and I don't know what is real and what is rumor. Do I still want the P290? Sure, but my Robar R9S continues to be my (coveted) EDC gun.
Have you ever considered carrying a concealed bow?
I have some short axle bows, but none that short! What is the p290 you are talking about?
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What is an axle bow?
The P290 is the new Sig 9MM for concealed carry. Pictures are available on Sig's website and if you look at my earlier post on this string you will see where I enumerated the options and features of the P290 that I like.
It was announced in October and premiered at the 2011 Shot Show. It has a polymer frame and looks "Glocklike" at the business end as the dustcover is flush with the muzzle. The exposed hammer gives away the fact it is not a Glock.
Further, Sig has gotten beyond the polymer frame dilemma by offering grip inserts in polymer, metal and wood. All of this is theoretical as Sig is having difficulty filling demand. I think the gun is cute in an ugly sort of way, if that makes any sense.
Meanwhile, Kimber has come out with their sub-compact model called the Solo. Unlike Sig P290, some Kimber Solos have hit the market (i.e. gunbroker) but are selling for premium prices due to demand.
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"Short axle bow" this refers to the length of the compound bow, or the distance between the axels the cams ride on.
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John,
Thanks for bailing me out on my question. I don't have much experience and did not understand what was meant by 'axle bow'.
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New guy here. Like most others, there is a reason I have gravitated to the R9S. I have only shot one at the range as a rental, but I really like the new :o Ruger LC9 :o. Little but sparten and rugged. Goes blam each and every time. My R9 Replaced a Walther PPS, too Heavy and does not ever fit in a pocket. I bought a LCP to carry when the Walther is too big, but it is to low powered. Like most others, The reason to spend the $$$ for the R9 is that there is no other pistol that can meet the test that the gun the is too big, or the gun that is too small, but the R9 is Just right.
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* * *The reason to spend the $$$ for the R9 is that there is no other pistol that can meet the test that the gun the is too big, or the gun that is too small, but the R9 is Just right.
MOLSON:
That just about says it all! 8) Welcome and congratulations!
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That's pretty cool having an R9 as a rental at a range.
Good way to boost sales and exposure.