Selecting your defensive round for your pistol

[flintsghost]

Today, I was in a discussion with someone who was one of my students when I ran the state academy.  We started talking about ammunition for duty and off duty and he was stuck on one particular round for all his pistols even in different calibers.   He really liked  Federal hydrashock.   And he used the same bullet in different calibers for all his handguns, both duty, off duty and fun.   It came as a shock to him when I explained as tactfully as I could that every pistol barrel is a little different.  They are after all a product of the + and - factors of production machining.  I explained that you can't necessarily find the best round for a particular pistol by brand.  You have to try lots of stuff to come up with a particular "best round" for any handgun.    By way of example I took him through a number of the working pistols and revolvers that I have and use for a variety of different things.   Each and every one has had a lot of different rounds fired to come up with the most accurate round for each individual weapon.   Here's the list and the best round in each..so far.  I say so far because I never stop trying new stuff.   I also don't and haven't had the ability to use every possible manufacturer in every pistol but I've used a bunch.  In some like my R9S that fact that +P and +P+ are eliminated by manufacturer recommendation limits the choics also.

Remington Rand 1911A1  -  .45ACP reload 200 H&G SWC
                                     5.2/700X and a Win primer. for a
                                     factory round 230 Federal Gold
                                     Medal Match.

Colt Defender .45ACP - Remington 185 Golden Sabre Bonded

S&W Model 58 -  Remington 210 gr  JSP  (The original full
                       house load the .41mag was designed for).

SIG P220R Carry  -  Speer 200 grain GD +P

SIG P239 .40 Cal - Remington 165 Golden Sabre Bonded

H&K P2000SK .40 Cal - Speer 165 GD

S&W  637 .38 Spec  - Speer 135 grain GD +P Short Barrel

H&K USPc 9mm - Federal Hydrahock 147 grain +P+

SIG  P228 - Speer 124 Grain GD +P/Federal 124 grain HS toss
                  up.

SIG  P225 -  Federal 124 grain Hydrashock

Rohrbaugh R9S - Speer  124 Gold Dot

Those are the best I've found for each.   The Rohrbaugh is still a work in progress but I think my tests pretty much confirmed some of the information that was published on line by one person with the exception that I didn't have immediate access to any Winchester handgun ammo at all.   I tried rounds that I already had on hand.   But since I confirmed that the standard velocity Speer GD 124gr was  a similar result to what I saw on line,  I quit while I was ahead and had tried all the available rounds that were non +P or +P+ that I had on hand.   I do still want to try Remington 124 grain golden sabre bonded in it but so far I don't have any available at this time.  I wasn't impressed with the bullet performance of the golden sabre round at the low velocitys that the short barrel of the Rohrbaugh produces in the online tests.    I avoided Speers Short Barrel 9mm because even though it produces similar ballistics to the 124 grain standard GD in a longer barrel, it is rated as +P due to pressures and a propellant change which gives it those ballistics in a shorter barrel.  

I want to emphasize that this is what I found in my pistols and in particular in the Rohrbaugh.   I readily admit that I don't want to use a round smaller than 124 grain also.   The reason is that I prefer the penetration of the heavier bullet over the speed of the 115 grain.   If someone else likes that speed,  go for it.    But for me the deciding factor will always be accuracy and bullet size over speed.   Another round I want to try in the Rohrbaugh that I didn't have available is a Glaser Safety Slug (if they make a non +P variety).  They used to.   But it's been a long time since I shot any.   It would seem that they might be made to order for the Rohrbaugh.    For those who don't know what they are, do a little research and you might have a new door opened to you.
 

[Richard S]

FG:

That is a very insightful post. I also have different brands and loads for different guns in my collection, based on trial and error over the years.

Good stuff! Thanks for posting it.

[flintsghost]

FG:

That is a very insightful post. I also have different brands and loads for different guns in my collection, based on trial and error over the years.

Good stuff! Thanks for posting it.

Thanks, somehow my reply got sent to cyberspace.   Your signature line is not complete...it should say, "Go ARMY..Beat NAVY!"    I'm an army brat myself and grew up on Army football and still follow it regardless of how they are doing.

[Richard S]

Thanks, somehow my reply got sent to cyberspace.   Your signature line is not complete...it should say, "Go ARMY..Beat NAVY!"    I'm an army brat myself and grew up on Army football and still follow it regardless of how they are doing.

FG:

There are about five of us die-hard Army types around here and about as many from the Navy. It's been rough terrain and hard slogging for us but fair winds and following seas for them the past seven years at "game time."

[flintsghost]

FG:

There are about five of us die-hard Army types around here and about as many from the Navy. It's been rough terrain and hard slogging for us but fair winds and following seas for them the past seven years at "game time."

About 5 years ago,  I was pending have multiple bipass surgery, and I watched Army's opener at Michie Stadium against Rutgers.   They almost won and I got so excited yelling and screaming that the nitro didn't help.  My wife had to take me to the hospital.  I refused to leave till the matter was decided.  A few days later I had 6 bipasses.   I tried to go to West Point out of high school and couldn't quite pull a high enough score in math.   Rather than try again a year later I went on to college.   The only thing I regret is that I didn't get to play for Army.   I've been a fan since a child all through Pete Dawkins Heisman years and Carpenter's "lonely end" days.   Not much on TV then except Army/Navy but they were easy to follow in the paper.   When Navy has two Heisman's on the same team and some back to back National Championships then they can boast.   Belino and Staubach were great, but they didn't play together and neither got a championship.   When Navy and Air Force are playing and Army is not the opponent,  I root for them too.  But Army is the King, in my opinion even if they are temporarily on hard times.   They did manage a bowl this year though and that's something.

[ACP]

flintsghost:

I am ex-Army; (MP detachment Ft. Riley, Kansas). I hope your health is better than Army's football team.

[tracker]

Fear not; that old pendulum will swing back and the tide will turn for the Black Knights once again one of these days. The ghosts of Mr. Inside and Mr. Outside shall ride victoriously in Philadelphia but we just don't know when. Maybe this is the year.

[flintsghost]

I thought Bobby Ross might have the answer.  But alas not to be.   However,  they keep getting better and better.   Navy has the edge right now but it's always swinging back and forth.   Who knows.   Being a fan means loving to see them and yelling and screaming even in the hard times.   My health is much better now thanks for asking.    

[ACP]

Well said but I don't think the younger generation is attracted to the service academies as much as they are to the fame, glory and money of bigger schools.

In my lifetime the exceptions, (albeit long ago), were Roger Staubach and David Robinson.

[tracker]

Take heart. West Point was 27-0-1 from 1944-1946.

[flintsghost]

Well said but I don't think the younger generation is attracted to the service academies as much as they are to the fame, glory and money of bigger schools.

In my lifetime the exceptions, (albeit long ago), were Roger Staubach and David Robinson.

David Robinson of course was too tall for the Navy and thus was able to go straight into the NBA.  More recently there was a Air Force Academy grad as a pilot he flew in the original Desert Storm and who when his time was done, like Stauback, went to the Dallas Cowboys,... defensive line.   Name escapes me right now.   Don't forget Napoleon McCallum from Navy who played for the Raiders.   There are probably many more that we don't know about or can't remember.    The  fact is that the number of college players from any school who are good enough to play in the Pro's in any sport is so miniscule compared to the ones can't..that it's sometimes hard for me to believe that many want to try it, especially in hard times where the service academys give one the best education money can't buy and a ready made career upon graduation.      My son gave up a promising collegiate Baseball career and upon graduation joined the Army and is now an E6 18B/18D  Special Forces Weapons and Medic.  He served in afghanistan, earned his CIB the hard way,  and will probably be going back.  He doesn't miss sports at all and told me recently that he wouldn't trade being in MLB for what he does.   He said anyone can play baseball with work, but only a very select few get to do what he does, no matter how hard they try.  He has, I think, learned the wisdom of a sign I once saw on the desk of someone I knew who had served in Vietnam.  It said, "for those who fight for it and win, life has a spice the protected will never know."   It set right next to another sign with a 1st Div patch and a CIB on it, that said,  "if you got to be one, be a BIG RED ONE."  I always enjoyed those two signs.  

[Richard S]

FG:

I salute your son and thank him for his service to our nation!

[ACP]

flintsghost: Father and son are (rightfully) proud of what you describe.

I am embarassed to have forgotten Pat Tillman, Arizona Cardinal NFL player, killed in Afghanistan.

The rode not taken does not come with a yardstick. I was drafted in the 1970's during de-escalation of Vietnam. I tested very well; fresh from a liberal arts college in New England and didn't have a clue as to what I could have achieved had I said "yes" to officer candidate school, flight warrant officer (helicopter), CID and other opportunities.

Each required more time than the 2 years mandated by conscription. As I have gotten older I have come to believe that "wisdom" is acquired with age and has no place when you are young, headstrong and uninformed.

[flintsghost]

flintsghost: Father and son are (rightfully) proud of what you describe.

I am embarassed to have forgotten Pat Tillman, Arizona Cardinal NFL player, killed in Afghanistan.

The rode not taken does not come with a yardstick. I was drafted in the 1970's during de-escalation of Vietnam. I tested very well; fresh from a liberal arts college in New England and didn't have a clue as to what I could have achieved had I said "yes" to officer candidate school, flight warrant officer (helicopter), CID and other opportunities.

Each required more time than the 2 years mandated by conscription. As I have gotten older I have come to believe that "wisdom" is acquired with age and has no place when you are young, headstrong and uninformed.

Pat Tillman is in a special category all by himself.  What he did for the military when he decided there were things more important than money and quit the NFL as an all star player and joined the army as a buck private in the rear rank, can not probably be equaled.   The amount of publicity it gave to the overall effort and support was without measure.   The fact that the military fumbled the facts of his demise is unfortunate but understandable, I believe.   But he, my friends, is a true hero and patriot, regardless of how he met his end.

[Bri0242]

I just talked with Maria at Rohrbaugh about a rust issue on my new R9S, and she said that they recommend the Winchester Silvertip first & the Speer Gold Dot second. Weird....
Thanks to all the brave servicemen & women.