The Rohrbaugh Forum
Rohrbaugh Products and Accessories => Rohrbaugh R9 (all variations) => Topic started by: FJC on July 21, 2004, 08:58:11 PM
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I'm hearing that Gun Tests magazine did a comparison review of the R9s to the Kahr PM9, and resoundly picks the PM9. I don't subscribe to Gun Tests, but word on some others boards is that they are claiming the R9 is very finicky with ammo, and was doing a lot of keyholing.
That doesn't match up what I've been hearing from actual owners...anyone who has one already finding it finicky about ammo? Any keyholing?
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A Pair of Tiny Pocket 9mms: We Pick the PM9 Over the R9s
Kahr’s product was by “fahr” a better carry gun than Rohrbaugh’s R9s, in our estimation.
THR link:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=ed4f7730e5a5d2f1aeb88898359195c4&threadid=92874&highlight=gun+and+tests
EDITED by DDGATOR:
Sorry, Justin. I do appreciate the effort, but after consultation with my Intellectual Property counsel, I decided I couldn't let the verbatim text of the article remain here due to copyright concerns. I don't need the "cease and desist" letter!
ADDED:
No problem Duane. I was a little hesitant to post it anyway. No explanation needed. You are no glocktalk-nazi.
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Yikes! That's not a very good review at all. :-[ Looks like the Rohrbaugh is batting .500 in gun mags so far. ??? For what it's worth I've never had a keyhole in close to 500 rounds from the Rohrbaugh, and I also don't understand why the test piece only had one magazine, I believe they come with two mags from the factory.
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I have never liked Gun Test Magazine, I think they are just one man's opinion.. The idea of them buying all their test items, so as not to be beholden to anyone, is slightly askew. IMHO
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Thanks, Justin. This will generate a lot of comments.
The authors seem somewhat uninformed to me... but... I leave it to others to comment.
Why do they say (several times) that the R-9 only comes with 1 magazine? Did they get ripped off? ;)
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Notice they only seemed to have issues with ammo that they even admit wasn't appropriate for the pistol...and no problems (feeding or with keyholing) with more appropriate ammo like the Gold Dots.
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and I also don't understand why the test piece only had one magazine, I believe they come with two mags from the factory.
Maybe they bought their sample from Long Island Shooting Center:
http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976468090.htm
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The gun test weights:
PM9 - 16.4 oz.
R9S - 13.4 oz.
Published weights on mfg. websites:
PM9 - 15.9 oz.
R9S - 14.3 oz.
hmmmmm
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That review is about the most lengthy piece of self-aggrandizing drivel I have read lately. I have nothing aginst Kahr, which is involved with the manufacture of the NAA Guardians. (And I have carried Guardians for years.) But that Gun Test reviewer missed the mark with his article as widely as he apparently did when trying to fire the Rohrbaugh.
As an old trial lawyer, I wonder what his motive might have been.
As for myself . . . in my seventh decade of life, and having been in harm's way on two continents . . . I testify as follows: My R9s has never malfunctioned. It shoots tight groups. The recoil is entirely manageable, especially after familiarization. It has digested every type of quality 9mm ammunition I have found to feed it. I intend to carry it for the rest of my life and leave it to whichever heir has most impressed me at the time I execute the final codicil to my Last Will and Testament.
Further, Deponent sayeth not.
RS
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And by the way, my Rohrabaugh doesn't "keyhole," as was implied by that Gun Test review. I shall be surprised if any of the other Rphrbaughs do either.
RS
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"We could not reject it outright, we felt, because some of our test shooters liked it slightly more than the Kahr"
Then why did Gun Test prefer the Kahr? I own both and in my opinion the Rohrbaugh has a better trigger and is much more reliable (my PM9 needed stronger springs and then made a trip back to Mass and still sometimes needs a little help returning fully to battery).
The article makes it appear that the Rohrbaugh is only slightly easier to pocket carry. To me there is a huge difference in the size when I have it in my pocket. I don't know what the measurements are but anyone who has compared both in their pocket has to agree that there is a HUGE difference. I think the PM9 carries more like my Glock 27. The Rohrbaugh carries more like my Keltec P3-AT.
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Murray:
You asked: "Then why did Gun Test prefer the Kahr?"
Good question.
In the immortal words of the late, great George Burns, I should say, "Good night."
RS
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thanks for posting that justin! now i don't have to sign up for a 14-day free trial period (hee hee)
that writer did bring up one point that i never would have thought of which is not subject to bias.....what about clearing a jam? those make me nervous whenever they happen on any gun, but on a tightly fitted gun with a strong recoil spring and no slide lock....how do you guys feel about that?
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Justin, thanks very much for posting the article!
I think it's possible the author for Gun Tests is one of those folks who just prefers the Kahr's trigger to the Rohrbaugh's. There's no denying Kahr triggers feel very different from the Rohrbaugh's trigger, which is more like a very well tuned revolver's long double action.
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Richard_S
ME ,Me, me !! :-*
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"I don't know what the measurements are but anyone who has compared both in their pocket has to agree that there is a HUGE difference. I think the PM9 carries more like my Glock 27. The Rohrbaugh carries more like my Keltec P3-AT."
MurrayNevada
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I know there is a big difference in the piece of leather I use for the respective pistols. [Rohrbaugh vs Kahr PM9]
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Justin - let me add my thx for posting the article.
I took ''Gun tests for a year'' ... but frankly - was not impressed with their work ... across the board. I let the sub' lapse. The reports seem very detailed but somehow just do not seem to hold up to others when assessed ''across the board'' .. not entirely sure why. Being charitable, maybe they try their best but it don't wash with this ol' phart!
The ''only one mag'' is somewhat irrelevant IMO - no reason why a gun and single mag could not have been all that was supplied and so quite adequate .... I didn't think they had to purchase the gun.!
Keyholing .... I think the only time I saw something resembling that was with crap ammo - more than likely the A-Merc!! Feed decent stuff .. Gold Dots etc - and all is more than well.
As for takedown criticisms well ... that to me is a minor point - and as we know - this only requires a measure of technique and is hardly prejudicial to the piece overall.
They did make a point about machining quality etc ... which I guess is something.
Unfortunately I am in no position to relate to PM9 .. have not got or even handled one. I have tho no doubt that - as with any gun platform - there will be fans in both camps. No prob's there. Daresay too a PM9 would suit me just fine if I had it.
Maybe in part some of this is like comparing a compact Para Ordnance to a Springfield or Kimber etc ..... folks will always find plusses and minuses. Far as I am concerned the R9 is way out there .. and even if a gun takes a little ''getting used to'' .. the bottom line is does it perform and does it carry well. The R9 does IMO.
The quoted dry weight BTW for R9 (sans mag) is 12.8 ounces.
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Very opinionated writer, I would say.
I know a couple dozen gun show owner/ employees that talk JUST like the owner of GUN TEST.
I remember one in particular, said he would never own one of those over-rated Seecamps, for years. Then one day he traded in [STOLE] one. He kept it, of course, but from then on, it was the best thing since sliced bread..
I also think somebody ripped *GUN TEST* for a magazine ... ;D
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Beside the obligatory American Rifleman that comes with my NRA membership, the only firearms magazine I have subscribed to in years is Gun Tests. They are generally pretty good but have missed the mark on some guns in the past.
I have been carrying a Kahr P40 covert on my belt and a Kahr PM9 in my pocket for the past 18 hours today. I generally carry both and really like them. Both have been very accurate and dependable for me. The P40 covert was great out of the box but the PM9 was to the factory first and then to Teddy Jacobson before it performed as advertised.
I still can't wait to get my Rohrbaugh. The opinion of the Gun Tests writers is obviously wrong when I compare it to the experiences of at least a half a dozen Rohrbaugh owners whom I know, like, respect and trust. That business about the one magazine supplied made me wonder what was going on too. Apparently they didn't do any research or they would have known that the Rohrbaugh comes with two magazines.
Frank
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I've noticed that Gun Test Magazine's conclusions have often times been questionable, at least in my opinion. They always seem to dwell on some issue(s) that makes one of the guns unacceptable to the author. That issue may be insignificant to many other people or may be an isolated issue with their particular test gun, yet they still make a buy/don't buy recommendation and lots of folks probably take what they say to heart. A thinking person will take what they say into consideration, but will take it for what it's worth - one mans opinion of one particular example of a gun. At least they do find faults, which is somewhat refreshing. Most all gun rags simply sing the praises of everything they test, which is pure BS. I think there have been enough independent reports so far to conclude that the Gun Test experience with the R9 is not the norm. And I know that not all PM9s perform as flawlessly as this particular one did.
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My R9s is 'way more accurate than it needs to be: once I establish holdover, I pretty routinely can hit steel silhouettes at 50 yards. I've never noticed that a round keyholed (holes in paper and Silhouette strikes have all been round). Keyholing, in passing, is not necessarily a bad thing anyway if the target is hit. My brother was a Navy doctor in 'Nam, and told me some of the worst wounds he treated on enemy personnel were caused by keyholed rounds from early M16's which had the wrong twist rate for the rounds supplied. As far as reliability is concerned, why would you buy a first quality pistol and then shoot crap in it? My Kahr K40 will not tolerate any ammo but high-quality stuff: "practice ammo" fails to feed, period. Finally, regarding practice ammo, yesterday I discovered that Speer packages Gold Dot 124gr JHP ammo in loose, 250 round lots and labels it "practice ammo" at substantially cheaper cost than by the 20- or 50-round box! ($70 per 250 rounds vice +/-$175 for 20-round boxes) ;D
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so i guess we're all in agreement then that ANY criticism of the R9 is always per se invalid, that to question any aspect of its design is HERESY, and that anybody who disagrees is not enlightened as us!
now let's get back to our mantra...."Hare Krishna! Hare Krishna! Hare, Hare......"
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so i guess we're all in agreement then that ANY criticism of the R9 is always per se invalid, that to question any aspect of its design is HERESY, and that anybody who disagrees is not enlightened as us!
now let's get back to our mantra...."Hare Krishna! Hare Krishna! Hare, Hare......"
No, but those of us who own both will most likely take issue with portions of the review. In my opinion the reviewer loses some credibility when he writes that there is little difference in size of the two pistols. As far as reliability is concerned, take a look at some of the gun boards. It seems to be widely accepted that there is a great difference between the all steel Kahrs and the polymer ones. Give a call to the Kahr gunsmiths and ask about some of the reliability problems with the polymer Kahrs.
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No, but those of us who own both will most likely take issue with portions of the review. In my opinion the reviewer loses some credibility when he writes that there is little difference in size of the two pistols. As far as reliability is concerned, take a look at some of the gun boards. It seems to be widely accepted that there is a great difference between the all steel Kahrs and the polymer ones. Give a call to the Kahr gunsmiths and ask about some of the reliability problems with the polymer Kahrs.
I understand the Kahr products have had issues, but the Kahr forum members do not consider it taboo to discuss the cons as well as the pros (and hopefully how to rectify or improve the cons).
I do not own a Rohrbaugh, but have been intrigued by things I have read, including on this forum. It is difficult for me to spend $950, however, for a gun I cannot see and hold. Since you own both, perhaps you could post comparison photos from different angles (yes, for the last time, I am aware of the photo of the non-working demo R9 alongside the cast mold pm9, but I'd like to see the actual guns together -- call me crazy).
I'd also still be interested to hear about the "clearing a jam" question I posed earlier. Thanks.
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I was also offended by this statement:
Either gun would easily slip into a pocket, though holsters are available for them.
Followed by this statement:
The back of the front sight was angular enough that it could cause problems getting the gun out of a pocket, we thought, and that is something the individual owner would have to work out to his own satisfaction. Some pockets worked better than others for casual carry, we noticed. And there are “pocket holsters” that would provide a good solution to those who want or need them.
Am I being overly sensitive, or are they suggesting that either of these guns would be appropriate to carry in a pocket without a holster? ??? What kind of advice is that? Sounds like they are saying carry in a pocket, and oh..by the way... if you really think its necessary there are some things out there called pocket holsters that you could try...
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They are trying to make a living selling their publication, and are not to concerned with factual content.
I feel the same way as you, about the way they just dusted over a safety issue..
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This may not be a popular view and I know that everyone here enjoyed reading this article (even if not what was written).. do we feel okay about posting an article that should be paid for and is copyrighted? My feeling is that whether we like the content or not, this article should not be posted unless we have permission to do so. Think paraphrasing is okay... don't want the forum to get itself into trouble
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datan, why do you have to be such a wet blanket? :P
justin is merely presenting the contents of the article to stimulate intellectual discussion and debate, much like a teacher who has her class discuss an article placed in a newspaper or magazine; do you and your wife share the morning newspaper, or do you insist on her paying for her own?
since he wasn't passing it off as his own words, and he is not profiting from it, i don't think he did anything wrong by passing it on
and i am still glad i didn't have to sign up for a 14 day free trial period (hee hee) ;D
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Yeah.. I figured people would take my comment on this as a "wet blanket".. guess if there is a free trial it is okay.. I was thinking about another forum that got hit with some minor legal crap in the form of a letter requiring the removal of an artical. They were made to comply and it sounded like a hassle. Didn't want to see this here.
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Just another person's opinion, as far as I am concerned. I had my first experience firing the Rohrbaugh today, and it was very positive. If someone prefers the Kahr, more power to them, it is a fine weapon.
I could spend all day debunking aspects of this guys review or detailing what features I like better on one as opposed to the other, but in the end it is still my opinion. A decision that fits my needs, and the Rohrbaugh fit them better than the Kahr.
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I am aware of other instances when Gun Tests panned a product, and the manufacturer contemplated suing them because they were incompetent to operate it properly.
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[size=13] I had my first experience firing the Rohrbaugh today, and it was very positive.[/size]
Glad to hear that Shelby. And I'd say you are being honest about your appraisal as we all try to be. And equally if you found fault or a dislike you'd mention it I am sure.
Bandit .........
I know it seem sometimes like we are singing praises and nothing else .... but for most part the majority here as owners do not find major fault. Why? because we (all our opinions, no more) seem to reflect the quality of the piece and its engineering. I for one am not about to s**tcan something just because I feel something bad has to be said to balance the good! :D
Thus - there is a natural inclination to spring to the defence of what we find good - simply because we have not seen those bad points mentioned by just one other. Who is - naturally, entitled to his/her opinion ... but it more concerning when that opinion hits the news stands!!
I can if I try ''find fault'' .. tho fault is way too strong a term .... let's just say ''minor nit-picks''!
I would prefer a different color grip. I would prefer takedown to be a tad easier (but heck - not much practice needed fpr that) .... maybe too I'd like malfunction clearance to be an easier process too - but then unless ammo is crap it seems pretty unlikely with what most of us have found.
I could really go overboard and say ' shucks - it's just too damn small'' ;D But of course it's small - because it is a pocket piece - and 9mm at that.
I would still agree it is for sure one pricey mother ..... but - perspective needed here. It has been in development a long time - it is state of art re its engineering and ... Rohrbaugh has invested heavily (dread to think - insert figure here $xxxxxxx) ... and so has to recoup outlay. Quality does come at a price and we need to remember costs of some 1911 variants .. where $1,500 to $2,000 is far from out of the ordinary.
OK - the rambler rambles again ::) :P .. but I'll just repeat .. I will always defend what I consider good .. and tho never been a salesman ... would find this an easy gun to promote - simply because I would need no BS to do that selling .... I'd simply extol virtues - as I see them and let a potential customer make up their own mind.
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so i guess we're all in agreement then that ANY criticism of the R9 is always per se invalid, that to question any aspect of its design is HERESY, and that anybody who disagrees is not enlightened as us!
now let's get back to our mantra...."Hare Krishna! Hare Krishna! Hare, Hare......"
I understand the Kahr products have had issues, but the Kahr forum members do not consider it taboo to discuss the cons as well as the pros (and hopefully how to rectify or improve the cons).
Show me ANYWHERE on this board where someone was told it is taboo to discuss anything negative about the Rohrbaugh pistols. The gist of the comments have been that actual owners have not reported the problems listed in the Gun Tests review.
It is difficult for me to spend $950, however, for a gun I cannot see and hold.
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Then don't buy one. Wait until the supply meets demand and you can find them in stores, so you can see/hold it.
I'd also still be interested to hear about the "clearing a jam" question I posed earlier. Thanks.
I do not have my R9 as of yet, so cannot speak directly from experience - however, I doubt it would be any different from similar issues that other small pocket pistols have. The Kel-Tec P-3AT does not have a slide lock, either. I've practiced (with dummy rounds, of course), dropping the magazine, racking the slide, making a "flipping" motion with my wrist to try to eject rounds, then reinsert mag, tap/rack/bang. Naturally, if things get really jammed up, it's not easy (but it isn't with a larger sized pistol, either).
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I love Kahrs. I own only one, but I've most likely shot every steel model producted, but only one of the plastic versions--the P9.
But the Rohrbaugh blew my socks off. It is by far the finest handgun that I have ever owned.
I got 2 mag's with my Rohrbaugh. I had no FTF or stovepipes with mine. I found field stripping easy, but reassembly a pain.
Overall, my opinion is different that Gun Test. But I do like the puiblication and I use to subscribe to it.
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Gun Tests,I have subscribed then gave it up-2-3 times now..
Just did the "free" issue thing cause I heard they were going to do a Story on the R9..
They have billed me twice before I have received the free issue!! :o
All the mags have a bias one way or another on their reviews IMO..
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I would be the first to critcize my new R9s if I had seen any problems. I have only fired 200 rounds of PMC and Gold Dot (100 each) through it but NO bobbles, no keyholes, no nothing but BANG. And reasonably accurate BANG at that. I really am having trouble with Gun Tests' credibility when they state a major flaw with the R9S is that it comes with only one magazine. Well, a major flaw with their evaluation is that they are simply wrong on that point. Additionally, their article left me with the impression that the R9S is not significantly smaller than the Kahr.....HUH!!!! Maybe to them it isn't...to me it sure as hell is. Anyway, it seems to me most of the criticism I have heard of the R9S so far ....no slide lock, inability to quickly reload, small sights.....ignores what the purpose, the very reason for this gun is...a back up that is significantly more powerful than other guns of its size....hell, if I want a slide lock, big sights, target accuracy, etc I"LL TAKE MY SIGS, P99, BHP, Glock 17, etc etc. Any of those guns are better for general carry purposes than either the Rohrbaugh or kahr...but you know what...only my Rohrbaugh can go places the others cant...thats why I love it so far ! Its like criticising a sports car because it doesnt have a big trunk ....you make some concessions if you want what a sports car offers..otherwise, consider an SUV...peace
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;D As I replied over at THR. I own both the PM9 and the R9s, they do "not" compete with each other, they compliment whatever I'm wearing. Lets see, one reveiwer can't stand the R9s(it keyholes), while another can hit man-sized gongs at 75yds. Seems like, "he said, she said", and the real "truth" is somewhere in the middle. To me what matters, I'll trust either pistol to protect me if I do my part. Besides, it's my $$$ and I feel that I spent it well. ;D
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Sorry everybody... upon further reflection and consultation with my Intellectual Property Counsel, I decided it was best to delete the verbatim transcript of the article.
For those who have read the article here or elsewhere, feel free to continue to discuss it.
Sorry!
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No sweat Duane .. we've all gotten up to speed I reckon .... your board .. play safe etc... :)
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I own both the PM9 and the R9s, they do "not" compete with each other, they compliment whatever I'm wearing.
I think the above quote says it best. After seeing the pics posted by RJ, I now understand the "actual" size difference. It is only natural the writers found the Kahr has more range than the Rohrbaugh, just as they would find a Glock 17 has more range than both (and just as a four-inch barrel has more range than a snubbie). In order to gain concealibility, you have to compromise some long-range accuracy, as well as some power. Its up to individual preferences to decide what that balance should be. But aren't we fortunate to have so many choices?
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I subscribe to Gun Tests for the purposes of reading their reviews, which, in most cases are pretty accurate but I don't bother reading their conclusions since in most cases my opinion differs significantly from their's.
I haven't received this month's issue yet so I haven't read the article but I am looking forward to it.
DDGator, by the way ... Sorry everybody... upon further reflection and consultation with my Intellectual Property Counsel, I decided it was best to delete the verbatim transcript of the article.
For those who have read the article here or elsewhere, feel free to continue to discuss it.
Sorry!
I think you would have been fine leaving the article up there as you would have been safely covered by the Congressional Fair Use Act (http://fpc.state.gov/documents/organization/10923.pdf) which allows use of copyrighted works by the public for the purposes of criticism, comment, educational purposes & news reporting and is not considered an infringement of copyrights under those circumstances.
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Good afternoon, New here to the board,
I have been testing and shooting the R9's for a couple of months now and reporting the results to Karl and Eric. I am a dealer in AZ (no I don't have anymore in stock sold the last one today!) regarding the comments about Gun Test magazine, I too used to subscribe just to have something for the customers to look at and hopefully buy, but over time reading their reviews convinced me the writers not only don't know how to write very well, they aren't all that knowledgeable about firearms in general! Ray Odorica(?) compares a freedom arms to a taurus and determines the taurus is superior due to the fact that it costs less (apples to oranges) and that you can use 480 rugers in it! Freedom arms only recommends you purchase a seperate cylinder for smaller cartridges, but you certainly CAN shoot them. How about the comparison between the 10mm and 44 mag N-frames? he chooses the 10mm because it generates less recoil, well duh! How about the time they suggested you strip the ugly black paint off the FN 1949's SOG is importing (never mind it was the origional coating applied by the factory and the rifles have collector value. It was apparent to me that they are lacking in the objective comparison catagory.
As for the querey about the R9S and reliability, without going into too much detail, the guns are extremely reliable with high grade ammo, however the cheaper practice ammo has given problems to include Blaser Brass, Winchester, wolf and military ball. The usual failure is a failure to eject wheree the ejector lets go of the case before removing it completely from the chamber. To all who wonder, this is a very difficult jam to clear as the spring is very powerful no levers (not a condemnation merely an observation) and the mags fit flush so there really isn't much to hand onto when clearing. (If this were to happen during a critical moment you are hosed! switch to your knife and make your best warface).
Again with proper ammo it is a fantasticly reliable piece. Oh and I carry mine 24/7 (sorry J-Frame) so I do feel they got it right. But I call em like I see em' and if it ain't I'll say it.
Nice Forum, for those of you still on the waiting list it will be worth the wait.
Ben s
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The gist of the comments have been that actual owners have not reported the problems listed in the Gun Tests review....[As to clearing a jam] I doubt it would be any different from similar issues that other small pocket pistols have. The Kel-Tec P-3AT does not have a slide lock, either.
SIGH ::)
To all who wonder, this is a VERY difficult jam to clear as the spring is very powerful no levers (not a condemnation merely an observation) and the mags fit flush so there really isn't much to hand onto when clearing. (If this were to happen during a critical moment you are hosed! switch to your knife and make your best warface).
THAT'S the answer no one wanted to admit to!:o Thanks for not sugarcoating, Ben.
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Ben ... welcome! :)
Always to good to have dealer's views - usually nice and objective. The jam is a tricky scene ... and not something I'd relish in a tight spot. In my testing tho I did find that yeah, the ''inferior'' ammo brands are or will be the culprits . tho actually Ben I found WWB scored well for me.
My only ''method'' for jam clearance is (and I am lucky to have quite large hands) .. once slide racked back I have a hold with right hand whereby I combine a tight as tight hold on grips and slide ..... it's not something you can do for long but - I have practiced it and find it gives me a ''window of opportunity'' with left hand to try and clear things.
BTW Ben ... don't think I saw you mention a fave ammo ... what is your EDC ammo? I am currently in Gold Dot mode and doubt so far I will shift from that.
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This is my first post and perhaps a bit premature as I only ordered my R9S this past week. I did so due to this forum and Roy Huntington's evaluation in American Handgunner. I would clearly make the same decision even after having read the material From Gun Tests!!!! I felt Roy's article was complete and fair.... Gun Tests article did nothing to hamper my sleepless nights until Performance Firearms of Michigan calls to say my R9S is in!!! Have a great weekend, Jim (in the thuumb of Mi.)
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As far as ammo picks, so far the one I like best (cost is very much an issue) is the Federal HST that CDNN is selling for $9.99 a box of 50.
Ben S
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Hi Jim:
Where in the thumb do you live? Although I live in St Clair Shores, I've bought a slew of guns from Randy's Hunting Center in Bad Axe.
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Congrats on ordering and welcome to the forum, Jim! I have mine on order with Performance Firearms as well.
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Thanks for the welcome George and Frank, I appreciate it. George, I live in Caro about 25 miles for Bad Axe and I also help keep Randy in business!!!! Hey Frank, how long a wait do you expect from Performance Firearms on your R9? You fellows have a great weekend, your friend,, Jim :)
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The "fair use" exception could have possibly applied, but there are several factors to consider. Fair use is more likely to apply when you don't reproduce the work in its entirety.
Likely nothing would have happened, but why invite trouble?
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Good afternoon, New here to the board,
I have been testing and shooting the R9's for a couple of months now and reporting the results to Karl and Eric.
How many rounds so far?
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What I haven't seen a coment about is the fact that the Gun Test article mentioned that some of the test shooters preferred the Rohrbaugh over the PM 9.
What I would have preferred would have been a review of the Rohrbaugh with the Seecamp 380. These are both new guns, and both pocketguns. That would have made more sense to me than a PM9 v Rohrbaugh article.
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What I would have preferred would have been a review of the Rohrbaugh with the Seecamp 380. These are both new guns, and both pocketguns.
I agree, that would be a good comparison.
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I think their opinion it much like mine, very narrow sometimes. ;)
Their main goal is selling copy.
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Well..I probably shouldn't open my very vast and big mouth..but "I yam..what I yam..and that's all what I yam!"
My whole life has been "guns" in some form...making my living from them..in one way or another since I became an adult in 1968.
For the sake of argument..please except..I know guns.
I have seen them all..big and small.
As a top line holster maker..I have a wall covered with all of them. I own the Micro-Kahrs and several of the new and rare Rohrbaugh R9 pistols...and many..many ...others.
They are both fine pistols..and I am a big fan of the Kahr guns..however...the little Rohrbaugh R9 is just a sweet deal.
I've now put over 750 rds. of Speer Gold Dot..124 gr. JHP through mine..without a problem.
I have been written up well in "Gun Tests" in the past..and I like the magazine...however...I don't agree with them on this one.
They may have teated this pistol over a week or so...but I've been testing pistols for a lifetime..and this one..is the "real deal".
I wouldn't say that...for anyone I know...if I didn't believe it.
Best,
Ronbo-San
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Welcome Pale_Horse - glad to have your input. :)
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up to 500 rounds now...mixture of 124 gr. Gold Dot and PMC....still no bobbles whatsoever, and no apparent keyholing. Just ordered and received two more magazines from Rohrbaugh. They were very prompt and a pleasure to deal with. Maybe I got the extra magazine Gun Tests didn't receive with their gun :D I subscribe to Gun Tests but sometimes I really wonder about their reviews...they recently commented that Wilson KZ45 COMPACT came with 10 round magazine, when in fact it comes with 9 round magazine (full size KZ45 does come with 10 rounder). They make a big deal in their review of the R9S that it only comes with one magazine, which is WRONG. Sheesh, its this kind of stuff that really makes me wonder about their credibility and reliability as writers who know what they are saying.
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Guys ... one of the THR members has posted the article ... I have saved it but - if it's still there you can go look HERE (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?threadid=92874).
If gone I'll happily email a txt file for you. I am keeping it for reference.
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Doesn't that link just get you the first paragraph of the article -- unless you are a subscriber?
I spoke with Eric Rohrbaugh yesterday about the Gun Tests review... There will some info forthcoming from them.
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I received my free copy today..Have not read the article as yet,but with the Headline of "We Pick The PM9 Over The R9s"
I probably can figure it out.. :-/
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I haven't received my "free" copy yet. All I have received is 2 invoices.
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[size=13]Doesn't that link just get you the first paragraph of the article -- unless you are a subscriber?[/size]
Duane ... my link? That should (does) go to the thread discussing this on THR - viewable by anyone I think.
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O.k. Yes. The link in the THR thread goes to a "teaser" of the article with the first paragraph or so...
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GUN TESTS = BLIND RETARDED MONKEYS
I used to subscribe for a couple years but those guys are complete idiots.
I have a hard time coming up with an appropriate analogy...
dumber than...
-a sack of rusty hammers
-a box of rocks
Some of the stuff these guys say and do just baffles me. I know little kids with more hands on gun knowledge.
They often cannot even assemble/disassemble guns correctly. The Rorbaugh may be crap but I would never believe if they said it. Those dumb***** were probably shooting .380's in it.
-bevr from THR
My favorite quote in the artcle: "The grip panels were made of a stiff, light, and durable polymer, so far as we could tell,..."
Yeah it's called carbon fiber you idiots!
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Rohrbaugh Firearms has sent a response to Gun Tests magazine, which is reproducted in full in a separate thread. I think it is very enlightening.
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That response is HERE (http://www.rohrbaughforum.com/YaBB.cgi?board=R9S;action=display;num=1091220026) where Duane posted it for us.
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The Gun Tests review is posted on Kahr's website:
http://www.kahr.com/review_gtc_0804.html
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Oh geeze... Don't get me going on that again! ::)
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Not suprising that Kahr would put the review on their site, but their information is deceptive.
In comparing their gun to others, they list width across the slide while others list the width across the widest point. Kahr's width across the widest point is not much less than my Glock 26.
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"...people can come up with statistics to prove anything.....14 percent of all people know that. "
Homer J. Simpson ;)
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Not suprising that Kahr would put the review on their site, but their information is deceptive.
In comparing their gun to others, they list width across the slide while others list the width across the widest point. Kahr's width across the widest point is not much less than my Glock 26.
In their comparison to a "baby" Glock (g26/27) they conveniently leave out the difference in capacity.