The Rohrbaugh Forum
Rohrbaugh Products and Accessories => Rohrbaugh R9 (all variations) => Topic started by: Drumbum on June 29, 2013, 12:31:50 AM
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Just got my new Stealth R9s. Took it to the range today with a box of 115 grain Gold Dots as all seem to recommend & was surprised to have at least one FTF per magazine. Nose of the bullet catching on the bottom edge of the feed ramp. Thought limp wristing was the problem & gave it to my buddy to try. Same result. Had 8 FTF's out of 50 rounds. Now I'm hesitant to carry the damn thing & went back to my super reliable P3AT. Found the bottom edge of the feed ramp to be razor sharp so smoothed & polished the ramp. Gonna try Golden Sabers next due to the more rounded nose. No joy. Am I missing something?
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Hi Drumbum,
Welcome.
You may have seen it here, but try site search here for "the code" or "maria mag"
Bob
p.s. YIKES!
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Hi Guns,
Welcome again to the forum.
Lots of good people here, some one should know.
Picture may help. Maybe a call Maria at Rohrbaugh.
Bob
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Hi
Another forum member said during a call with me, that Maria said something like start with less rds. and / or pre-load / stress mag springs for a little while.
Polishing sounds good to me.
I want to test and learn more too.
I wonder what the forum thinks would be good break in (maybe 100 or 200 rds). ???
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Drum:
First, welcome to the Forum.
Without knowing which bullet in the magazine tends to hang up on the feed ramp (first, last, or something in between), it all sounds like a magazine problem -- possibly a spring that is a bit too aggressive. I agree with the suggestion of "de-stressing" the spring a bit. Also, I'm one of the apparent few around here who use Golden Sabers in my R9. I've never had a problem with them.
Suggestions: Clean and lube the R9 (I recommend FrogLube or Ballistol with a touch of SuperLube on the rails) and give it another range session with Golden Sabers, downloading the mag each time by one round and giving the piece time to cool some between strings of fire.
Good luck. I've been carrying my R9 for over 8 years now EDC. Admittedly, I'm obsessive/compulsive about keeping it clean and lubed, but it has shown no vices.
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Thanks for the feedback. The FTF's tend to be early. 1st-3rd round from the fully loaded mag. I'll try "downloading" the mag each time as Richard suggested to see if reduced spring compression helps. Loaded the spare mag today to de-stress & will try again when the Golden Sabers arrive. Also ordered a Lubrikit from http://www.lubrikit.com/ Used traditional gun oil first time. Thanks again for the help. I'll post after trying again.
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I had a one or two FTF the first time I brought my K380 to the range. My main problem was a FTE...which I had several.
A few things....I would put a little extra lube more than what was shipped with the gun. I personally use the Wilson Combat grease on the rails, and the Wilson Combat oil for everything else.
Also...loading up the mags for a while to loosen them up is not a bad idea.
Most importantly, make sure the right side grip screws are tight..the gun will malfunction if they become loose.
For me....the K380 is my off duty summer carry gun, so it needs to be perfect. I had a long talk with Carl about my issues, and sent him back my gun. He shaved down my extractor a bit and did something with the feed ramp. He shot 30 rounds through it with no problems.
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dmunofo - I rechecked the grip screws & sure enough, the one closest to the trigger was loose. I had snugged them before going to the range but had an old hex wrench & didn't want to risk stripping. Probably wasn't tight enough & shook loose during the range trip. I'll get a new wrench & not make that mistake again. Thanks for the tip.
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I'm surprised that screw was loose as I think the new ones are lock-tite from the factory. Maybe someone else can confirm. I have 50 Gold Dot 115 and 50 Blazer Brass 115's through mine which was purchased new a few months ago and have not had any issues. In viewing this thread I just checked my screws and they are tight.
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dmunofo - I rechecked the grip screws & sure enough, the one closest to the trigger was loose. I had snugged them before going to the range but had an old hex wrench & didn't want to risk stripping. Probably wasn't tight enough & shook loose during the range trip. I'll get a new wrench & not make that mistake again. Thanks for the tip.
Drum:
I might suggest some of "Yankee's" O-rings. I use them on all of my handguns to help keep the grips screws tight. They work for me.
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Oh yes.....forgot to mention about the grip screws. I have them as well and They do work. ;)
Glad we are ale to help!!
Dom
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I tried some of those O-rings and found that I could not get the grip screws to seat all the way down.
I put the O-ring on the screw and then tightened it as much as I could until I was afraid of stripping it and the screw was still slightly sticking up and you could feel it easily when running your hand over it.
I much prefer to just use a tiny bit of locktite and have the screws flush and smooth.
dmunofo - I rechecked the grip screws & sure enough, the one closest to the trigger was loose. I had snugged them before going to the range but had an old hex wrench & didn't want to risk stripping. Probably wasn't tight enough & shook loose during the range trip. I'll get a new wrench & not make that mistake again. Thanks for the tip.
Drum:
I might suggest some of "Yankee's" O-rings. I use them on all of my handguns to help keep the grips screws tight. They work for me.
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Now that is an issue I haven't encountered using John's new screws and "O" rings, initially introduced by Richard; whatever works for you but I avoid loctite on R9 screws like the plague. According to my nonscientific survey more problems have been caused by "too tight" than "too loose" on the screws.
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Here's the problem with loctite. Does it work, absolutely. BUT....applying it to the screw threads means that when they are screwed in, the loctite is transferred to the threads of the gun. When you take the screws out, the loctite can "thread walk" and move. Which means that when you reinsert the screws again, the material can get pushed down and go deeper into the threads, and possibly find its way into the gun and/or other areas that you may not want.
While this may not happen initially, there is the potential. Just my 2 cents for what it's worth...just trying to give a little insight. Hope this helps.
Dom
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I'm not here to knock Loctite® Threadlocker. In fact, I use it for some applications -- just not on the grip screws of my R9.
Although I don't always remove the right grip panel when cleaning my R9, I do so every couple of months or so and inevitably find an accumulation of dreck, including pocket lint, in the recesses of the trigger mechanism. I also believe it is important occasionally to remove the steel grip screws from the aluminum frame of the R9 to clean and lightly lubricate the threading for the purpose of preventing galvanic corrosion from the dissimilar metals. (Tracker knows much more about that phenomenon that do I.)
For these reasons, I forego the use of Loctite and rely on O-rings to keep the grips screws seated. Even so, during range sessions I keep a hex key in my bag just in case a grip screw begins to work loose.
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I tried some of those O-rings and found that I could not get the grip screws to seat all the way down.
I put the O-ring on the screw and then tightened it as much as I could until I was afraid of stripping it and the screw was still slightly sticking up and you could feel it easily when running your hand over it.
I much prefer to just use a tiny bit of locktite and have the screws flush and smooth.
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FC:
I don't know what size O-rings you have tried, but it could be that they are a bit too thick for use with the R9. The rings come in various sizes, some resembling miniature tire inner tubes. I tried some of those on my own R9 and found the screw heads, as you described, extended slightly above the surface of the grip. The next smallest in thickness worked as desired. The "miniature inner tubes" are reserved for my Colt 1911 .45 ACP and MR DE .50 AE.
However, whatever works for you and gives you confidence in your pistol is of course the way to go.
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It also occurred to me that your O-rings must be too large because my screws with O-rings fit below flush with the grips surface and are tight.
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Yes, the o-rings are too big. They are the ones I received from Yankee (I think) - whoever the guy is who sells the alloy grip screws on here. The screws were great but the o-rings just did not work as the screw could not be seated all the way flush with the o-rings installed.
It also occurred to me that your O-rings must be too large because my screws with O-rings fit below flush with the grips surface and are tight.
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Anybody got a link & size for the O-rings? I searched " Yankee" & came up dry. It does seem like a better idea than Loktite.
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I'm not here to knock Loctite® Threadlocker. In fact, I use it for some applications -- just not on the grip screws of my R9.
Just to clear the air to avoid any confusion. I was not trying to knock Locktite...I do use it frequently as well, but like Richard S ..... not for my Rohrbaugh.
My post was merely to offer the reason why I choose not to use it for gun applications. If the post offended anyone, I do apologize upfront. The Yankee O-rings cured my loose grip screw issue, so I highly recommend them. Just trying to help
D
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I have never had a grip screw work loose in my holster or range bag. Simple solution, tighten the screws every 20 to 50 rounds and after each time you clean the weapon (which should be after each time it is fired IMO).
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Anybody got a link & size for the O-rings? I searched " Yankee" & came up dry. It does seem like a better idea hipthan Loktite.
I hope this link is helpful. (I have no relationship or knowledge of the seller.)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/O-RING-SET-225-RINGS-UNIVERSAL-SIZES-RUBBER-O-RINGS-FREE-SHIPPING-/310696628328?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4856f65068
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Just got my 1/16" wrench today and checked the screws. The ones on the right side did need to be tightened. The left ones did also. The one that was the most loose was the left bottom one. Thanks for the info as I will make sure I check after every firing. I only have a little over 100 rounds through and plan on only firing two mags every 6 months.
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Back to the range today. Feed ramp polished, grip screws tight, mag de-stressed, lubed & ready to try alternating mags of 115 Gold Dots & 124 grain Golden Sabers. Same problem. Failure to feed EVERY TIME on the 3rd round plus a 2nd & 3rd round FTF on the second mag. Didn't think I could get any more frustrated, then the guide rod broke off it's base & flung down range causing the slide to lock part way back. Called Maria & back to the factory it goes. Really wanted this to become my primary carry weapon but after 40 years of shooting it has turned out to be the most expensive & least reliable handgun I've ever owned.
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I don't know what to say, Drum, except that there are thousands of flawless R9s out here and that the factory will make yours right.
All the best.
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Sure hope you're right, Richard. The accuracy was great on the successful rounds & I can't imagine a 9mm easier to conceal or carry, I'm just frustrated. Hopefully the factory visit solves my dilemma.
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I carry daily. I have several Bobergs, several Seecamps, a few other carry pieces, but my daily carry is an R9. This is a trustworthy carry piece but it needs quality care. IMHO the grip screws do not get loose unless the pistol is fired (or at least triggered a LOT on a snap cap?). THUS, IT MAKES SENSE TO ME, to simply tighten the grip screws after each range session, and check them occationally when the pistol has not been fired for several months "just in case". On the range I always have the appropriate equipment in my range bag to tighten the screws after every 40-50 rounds, and I do so when my aged memory allows. I do use Yankee's O rings, but I still find that the screws can become loose after 50 rounds or so through the spout. After cleaning the weapon, oil can get into the screw holes. Occasionally remove the grips and dry the holes with a pipe cleaner, then replace and tighten the screws appropriately.
I have owned only 3 R9's, and after a reasonable break-in and a little learning experience, only one has had a major problem, and that was related to a relatively rare malfunction (due to out of speck firing pin retainer, which a very few other owners have experienced), which Karl repaired at his expense. I now carry this one daily, and the others were without issue including the one I sold to buy the Covert (and which I now wish I had also kept).
Break it in. Give it time. Lubricate it well, but carefully. Hold it tight, treat it right, carry light but ALWAYS find out what premium ammo it likes best, whether Gold Dot, Golden Sabres, Federal Premium, etc. and give it what it likes. If practice ammo occationally jams but costs less, so what as long as your carry ammo always works. Most prefer 124gr or 147gr, but some 115 users disagree. Learn your weapon before you carry.
Shoot safely, shoot well, shoot a lot! This is still the best carry 9mm pistol available. (see my recent post about my new Kimber Solo from today).
Regards,
John
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Backup: I also carry daily & have for decades. Colt Mustang, P3AT & Ruger LCR. I checked the grip screws before today's range visit & have not used Snap Caps on this firearm at all. The first failure to feed was THREE ROUNDS into my session so it seems unlikely loose grip screws were the problem. I also doubt a broken guide rod was due to a lack of maintenance as the firearm was well lubricated & has only 72 rounds through total. I tried both Gold Dot 115 and Golden Saber 124 with the same result. No practice ammo. Only what I intend to carry. I'm not trashing Rohrbaugh & REALLY want this to work. It is my belief that this particular gun has a problem. Perhaps the guide rod was warped or there is another problem which Karl will uncover. I'm hoping for a solution & WANT to believe this is an trustworthy carry piece. My experience thus far has ben less than reassuring.
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Hey, Drum, sorry for your toubles! I have 4 great reliable ones that I trust my life with!
I wouldn't blame you for giving up at all. I hope you don't. I have my ideas of what the problem may be, but that don't mean jack. This is between you and the factory. Good Luck!
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Hi Reinz. I'm pretty sure the factory will make this right. It goes back Monday since Maria suggested it not be "in the system" over the weekend. Still, I'd be interested in your opinion. Noticed the guy running the 2000 round test thread had some of the same problems.
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Drum, sorry I missed the last post you placed before my last one...I was still on page one. You clearly have a problem pistol and rebuilding trust will take a while. Please consider checking the firing pin retainer...try to move it with a small screwdriver (gently but firmly). If it shifts to the right side it is the problem...it will rub on the slide during recoil and retard the speed of the recoil, causing all kinds of problems similar to those you have experienced. I had the same problem and it nearly ruined the R9 for me except that I had owned one before (stupidly sold it) that was perfectly functional. As previously noted, that pistol now is my carry piece and is completely trustworthy. Check this out, send it back...Karl will make it right...then start over.
As a prior president (not one of my favorites, but a quantum leap better than the present one) once said, "I feel your pain"!
John
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Also, take a look at the threat "pronunciation" that is one of the new ones...same problem.
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Hi Reinz. I'm pretty sure the factory will make this right. It goes back Monday since Maria suggested it not be "in the system" over the weekend. Still, I'd be interested in your opinion. Noticed the guy running the 2000 round test thread had some of the same problems.
Most of the problems I encountered were FTE, I think there was only one FTF and I remember it was likely from holding the gun the wrong way. I feel my R9 is somehow getting more reliable and easier to shoot? maybe it takes up to 500rd to really break-in? I have yet tried any hollow point rounds, though.
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Guncats, the R9 really does a more predictable job with JHP ammo, especially Gold Dot, some Federal premium ammo, and some pistols seem to like Remington Golden Saber. 124 and for some 147gr. ammo works best, and is generally felt the better choice for self defence. I use Lawman 124 for range work, but always fire 13 rounds out of a box of my choice (124 Gold Dot JHP) and assuming my beat-up wrist joints don't go limp, if all rounds from that box fire then I use the rest of that box for carry. This is a practice many now use because of the variability of ammo and primers even from lot to lot within one manufacturer...trust only the ammo from a box that works for carry!
Feed it the right ammo; learn the one it likes best. Keep your grip screws tight...tighten after each range trip...keep it clean and lubricated properly; learn your weapon through practice and carry it when you are confident that it will always serve your needs. It took me a while to break mine in and to trust it...now it never fails me as long as I treat it right.
Shoot safely, shoot well, shoot often.
John
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Backup: CONGRATULATIONS! I think you have identified the problem. Took your advice & checked the firing pin retainer. It's VERY loose & can easily be moved side to side with almost no effort. if this is the whole problem I will be one happy camper. Here's a few pictures. Maria said don't clean it so ignore the crud. Thanks for the expert advice.
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I have to chime in and say that my unscientific survey of this forum indicated that 124gr Gold Dots worked the most reliably across the widest range of owners.
I only have a few hundreds round fired through my R9 but I have not had any problems with 124gr Gold Dot, 124gr and 147gr Lawman, and 147gr Winchester Ranger "T" Series - RA9T.
I had two failures to fire in the first six Remington Golden Sabres I tried to shoot.
I noticed on the cases that did fire - I had very shallow indentations on the primers.
The top left two are fired Winchester Ranger T and Speer Gold Dot, the bottom left is a 147gr bondedGolden Sabre that fired and you can see the primer doesn't have a solid noticeable indentation, the green sealant made a strange ring around the primer after the cartridge ignited - I'm calling that "fried egg" primer.
The top right two are Remington 147gr bonded Golden Sabres that failed to fire.
(http://www.rohrbaughforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6686.0;attach=645;image)
I have nothing against them, I mean just looking at how they perform in 4 denim gel test I think they would be a great SD round, I'm just saying that they don't work in my particular R9s and if I were troubleshooting an R9 - I wouldn't use the Golden Sabres to troubleshoot it, I'd use 124gr Gold Dots to trouble shoot.
** In my range report I stated that I had 2 failure to fire out of 7 Remington 147gr bonded Golden Sabres, but I remembered that the last failure to fire I had was the second to last round in the magazine, and I actually never even tried to fire the last Golden Sabre in the mag - I put that cartridge back in the box, so technically it was 2 failure to fire out of 6.
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Drumbum,
This is the same problem that I had, a firing pin retainer that moved around. I also had it move when the slide was opened when firing the gun. As a result the gun jammed opened and the gun needed to be taken apart for the slide to move correctly. The company made this right after a few trips back.
I think it is a flaw they have in the gun.
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I think renrew is right. My problem was a while back, and Karl said there had only been one or two prior cases...I atributed my issue to having a Covert (an R9 sent off to be coated and tweaked by another well-known gunmaker), but there have been too many reports now of the same problem...sounds like a quality control issue that should be evaluated at the factory, and each pistol should be checked before sending it out. Anyhow, glad to be of help. I flat love mine, but I do wish it had more easily visualized sights...may have a gunsmith drill out the current ones and drop in a dot.
John
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The question is, when the pistols that have had the problem with the firing pin retainers moving around were new in the box, at that time was there movement with them, or did they become dislodged after some use?
I think there is a possibility that if one checked the FPR when the gun was new it would have looked fine and not had any movement, and only after the 9mm cartridges were fired in the little gun did the problem start.
It is too bad that the company can’t make a way so the retainer would not be able to move under any circumstances, as this is the only real defect I can find in these fine pistols.
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Got my "problem child" back from the factory. New guide rod, firing pin retainer & repair of an out of spec ejector. They also included two new recoil springs which I thought was a nice touch. Finally got a chance to head back to the range this morning. Added stick on traction grips to the front & back straps plus a piece on the front of the trigger guard. Nice addition to a "slippery when wet" gun. Used up the rest of my ammo with alternating mags of 115 Gold dots & Golden Sabers.
WOW! What a difference. 63 rounds total. No problems WHATSOEVER with the Gold Dots (28 rounds). The Golden Sabers (35 rounds) were another story. 3 failure to feeds, one failure to eject & 2 hard primers that required a second strike. It's odd to me that my P3AT lights up the Golden Sabers every time but the heavier R9 had a problem. Still, you can't argue with reality, so it's Gold dots for me. Gonna try to find 124 grain this time. The grip screws had to be tightened after every other mag but I haven't added o-rings or Loctite so that issue still has to be addressed.
Overall I'm very pleased. Haven't cleaned it yet so I'm not sure if the FPR is loose. Seems unlikely based on performance. Another 50 rounds of Gold Dots without problems will equal redemption for this gun.
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When a gun works - you love them. Naturally the FTF, and FTEs, wear thin real fast. Normally ammo is 99% of the problem.
I doubt it's quality control, or poor manufacturing. The factory loses most of the profit when a gun is returned to be debugged.
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Hello Drumbum,
Any further successes or failures?
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Drumbum, glad you now have a functional R9. Mine continues as my EDC and is still the easiest carry of all.
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Mine continues as my EDC and is still the easiest carry of all.
I agree wholeheartedly!
And to add- it is/was my Holy Grail of EDC! The search has been over for 7 yrs.
The only other EDC that I buy is another R9 :)
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Have not been on this site for quite awhile, but read this forum topic with interest.
Took my R9 to a new range in the area just last week. I carry it or have it in my possession almost constantly, but have not given it much range time recently. My friend and I put about 84 rounds through it. The first 14 were Gold Dot 124's. Perfect performance. Then we tried 70 rounds of Herter's, purchased at Cabelas for about $20/50.
We don't ordinarily do this because most ranges will not allow it, but we tried to duplicate an emergency situation where we had to fire seven rounds as quickly as possible, single handed, with full arm extension or from the hip. The very tolerant range master was impressed. These rounds are not premium by any stretch of the imagination, yet we only had one FTE fully (case was wedged between slide and new cartridge) and two FTF. The FTF's fired on the second pull.
I think this is pretty good under the circumstances. We did find both right side screws were a little loose about 1/2 way through the session and we did allow the gun to cool for a couple of minutes between reloads. The R9 was filthy, but a thorough cleaning was easy, and a treatment with Froglube followed. Great little gun!
By the way, I posted some questions a few months back about purchasing a 1911 as a gift. I bought my friend a stainless Les Baer 1911. What a firearm! It took a lot of breaking in because the tolerances are incredibly tight, but it is an awesome piece of machinery. Thanks to all who recommended it. Doc ;)
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I will be always be your friend. :)
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Just thought I'd make a last update to this thread. Put an additional 100 rounds of 124 grain Gold Dots through over the last couple weeks with a single failure to feed. That one was toward the end of a range session & probably due to limp wristing. Gotta say this pistol is now problem free & I'm one happy camper. Thanks to all for the advice.
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Keep your PUP clean and shoot the ammo that it likes and it will treat you good.
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Again, this is some more good information to know, and keep in my memory bank.
So..... Gold Dots appear to be one of the better choices for the R9 ?
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This thread seems to have more lives than a cat -- perhaps because of the provocative subject line.
Z has said it well just above. In any event, keep the R9 clean and well lubricated , feed it premium ammunitiion (none of that Russian s*** out there), change the outer recoil springs every 200 rounds or so (they're cheaper than a cup of "designer coffee"), maintain a tight grip when shooting it (this is the smallest and lightest pistol every chambered for the 9mm Parabellum cartridge and needs a firm platform for the recoil properly to feed the piece), and it will serve you well and for a lifetime.
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Yes ... for a pocket pistol of this status, I would prefer all my ammo to feed like it was intended. I was never one to buy low cost ammo anyway, so I expect my firearm to function at it's best.
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I have always used 115 grain Gold Dots and have not experienced any malfunctions.
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Yes ... for a pocket pistol of this status, I would prefer all my ammo to feed like it was intended. I was never one to buy low cost ammo anyway, so I expect my firearm to function at it's best.
Feedramp, I would agree for a low quality pistol that most everything should feed (but it won't), but small close-toleranced high quality pistols have specific design requirements that make issues like OAL, JHP vs round nose, primer sensitivity, etc. important to the success of a short, rapid, violent slide action...very little room for error and therefore significant sensitivity to quality and design of ammo, even within the same maker and the same type of ammo from different lots. Hence, even for the Gold Dot 124 that my R9 favors, I fire 13 rounds from every new box...if function is flawless, I load the other 7 for carry...a hint I learned from Larry Seecamp on his forum.
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All this R9 ammo talk is making me anxious .... :o
My local dealer has a Stealth and Platinum in stock, so I plan to stop by today for an inspection.
But, I also have looked into a "Special Forces" model. Current price is at $1900.00, but I'm pretty sure someone will pay more.
Are the "SF" models really worth that much more $$$ ?
There were reports stating only 24 of them were made.
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One shouldn't load inferior ammunition in a Rohrbaugh R9, just as one shouldn't put inferior fuel in a Ferrari or feed inferior grain to a champion racehorse.
With regard to the latter item, in a former life I maintained a small Thoroughbred horse farm and racing stable up in Maryland. There was a story making the rounds of the track barns that the great horse, Secretariat, would not be allowed into a paddock to graze until an "expendable" horse known to be entirely healthy had been held there for a week or so and observed for any ill effects. 8)
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All this R9 ammo talk is making me anxious .... :o
My local dealer has a Stealth and Platinum in stock, so I plan to stop by today for an inspection.
But, I also have looked into a "Special Forces" model. Current price is at $1900.00, but I'm pretty sure someone will pay more.
Are the "SF" models really worth that much more $$$ ?
There were reports stating only 24 of them were made.
They are worth what one is willing to pay in my opinion. They are making them again I believe. Call Maria and see what the MSRP and delivery are.
Good luck
As far as ammo for R9's, I have had two R9's, my current one feeds everything I have put in the magazine (which has all been premium SD type ammo). The first one would not feed anything so it's pot luck in my opinion.
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Stopped in to my LGS today.
He stated he had 8 Rohrbaughs come in on the last shipment.
Today he had 1 survivor, which was the Platinum. Some lucky individual had purchased the Stealth model a few days earlier .... :-[
So, I fondled the Platinum for a while, and have to agree, that it's one marvelous little pistol. Perfect edges all around.
Listed at $1795.00
Hmm ....
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What do you mean by Platinum? Is that the Tribute model? Platinum is a Boberg model.
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What do you mean by Platinum? Is that the Tribute model? Platinum is a Boberg model.
I was wondering the same thing.
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Yes, you are correct. My bad... :o
I was thinking of another pistol line.
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I do like the Tribute Edition. It's a Sweet looking PUP! :)
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I own a Boberg Platinum (long) and it is a marvelous pistol, but suitable only for OWB holster carry and not any more concealable than a compact 1911 .45. The R9 Special Forces is just an upgraded but collectable R9 with a somewhat more durable finish, but at a premium price...not really any different from my Covert and, frankly, no better than a stealth model...If you plan this as a carry piece instead of an investment or a barbecue showoff piece, then realistically no one other than your wife and a close friend (or an unexpected, threatening, unwelcome "social" acquaintance) should ever see it. Be that the case, how it works takes precedence over how it looks...I bought the Covert because for carry I like black handguns that don't reveal their presence when presented in an emergency and the stealth was not available to me at that time. Whatever your pocket book and wishes allow, you will not go wrong with an R9 of any style as a pocket or IWB/OWB carry handgun.
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The only model left at my LGS is the Tribute. If my SF offer falls though I may rethink the Tribute.
If it's still there next week, I'll see if I can do some dealing ...
(http://i814.photobucket.com/albums/zz67/jeffdavis_photos/715000874_1.jpg) (http://s814.photobucket.com/user/jeffdavis_photos/media/715000874_1.jpg.html)
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The only model left at my LGS is the Tribute. If my SF offer falls though I may rethink the Tribute.
If it's still there next week, I'll see if I can do some dealing ...
(http://i814.photobucket.com/albums/zz67/jeffdavis_photos/715000874_1.jpg) (http://s814.photobucket.com/user/jeffdavis_photos/media/715000874_1.jpg.html)
Good luck in your decision!
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That is one nice looking pistol!