Author Topic: Disturbing incident pertaining to CCW  (Read 15872 times)

Offline pelahale

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Disturbing incident pertaining to CCW
« on: March 30, 2011, 04:25:22 PM »
Was hoping for Advice/input about a bad situation.

A family member lives out in the countryside -
He was walking through some woods late in the day on his land with his 11 year-old daughter when he spotted a small pack of dogs (3) off in the distance down the trail, maybe over a football field away.  He slowly tried to turn away to go back home, but the dogs sniffed him out and started barking aggressively and chasing him up the trail.  He thought about running but he was worried for his daughter and frankly about rabies also which has been fairly common in his county in recent years.  As he stood his ground, the dogs started getting closer - they were a couple of pitbull mixes and a Chow mix dog, fairly large and menacing dogs.  He took out his Sig 228 and fired a warning shot into the ground between him and the dogs, now about 50 yards away.  The dogs briefly halted, then started racing full speed at him and his daughter.  Without thinking twice he emptied the magazine into the 3 dogs, hitting each one at least once before they got to him.  He was able to drop 2 of them dead and maimed the third enough that it was spinning wildly and making a lot of noise along the trail.  As the third dog lay dying, he realized his daughter had been screaming the whole time.  

Very shaken up by the whole incident he rushed his daughter home and thought about what to do.  He wondered if his neighbors (maybe about 6 families spread out maybe hundreds of acres all around him) heard the screaming and the gunshots and called 911. His wife came home after dark and he told her what happened and it frightened her very much also but she was about to call the police when he stopped her.  He was worried that his concealed carry license would be taken away at least during the investigation, and possibly for good.  They live out in the rural parts of the county, the area with the highest rate of drug crimes (mostly crank) in the state.  Without guns, he and his family are sitting ducks for many antisocial elements living all around him.  

In the early morning in the dark after a sleepless night, he went back with a flashlight & a shovel to the trails where the dogs' corpses lay and he dugout and buried all 3 dogs.  He says none of the dogs had collars, but this is fairly common for even house dogs in that area.  He also managed to find 11 of the 13 brass casings he had fired earlier.  

This was about a week ago.  After trouble sleeping for several days, he asks me whether he should go ahead and notify the authorities as to what happened to him (and possibly lose his concealed carry permit for good?), or whether he should just keep this quiet.   Being a devout Christian, he's probably going to end up turning himself in and surrendering his CCW license.  I worry about what the legalities of this situation is.  Any advice or ideas on the laws surrounding a likely self-defense episode against a pack of dogs? The 1 week wait before reporting it probably looks bad also I assume?  Does he stand a chance of retaining his CCW license?

Offline dano

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Re: Disturbing incident pertaining to CCW
« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2011, 04:45:20 PM »
I don't know what state that you are in and I am not a lawyer. It appears to me that he was on his own land and and he can pretty much do what he wants, as long as he doesn't cause problems for the neighbors.  At least that is the way it is where I live and this act would be considered riding the property of wild life nuisances.

Does your state not allow for open carry on your own property or for target practice, for that matter?

My advice, in this case, would be to "let the dead dogs lie".
« Last Edit: March 30, 2011, 04:52:06 PM by dano »
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. Edmund Burke

Offline tracker

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Re: Disturbing incident pertaining to CCW
« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2011, 04:46:06 PM »

The first question is, did he do anything illegal? Subject to local laws, proximity of buildings, etc., probably not. It may have been wise to have called 911 initially because he clearly was in fear of his and his daughter's life and would be deemed to have been justified in shooting the dogs. There are more than a few attorneys on this forum who might advise otherwise but I would rather run the risk of a few more sleepless nights than to open that can of worms. It was probably a pack of wild dogs, anyway. This is just an opinion, of course.

Offline gbelleh

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Re: Disturbing incident pertaining to CCW
« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2011, 04:48:56 PM »
Why would he lose his CCW for defending himself against dogs on his own property?  If it's already been a week, it seems he shouldn't have any problems at this point.  I'd just be glad I was able to defend myself and daughter and move on.
gbelleh

Offline yankee2500

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Re: Disturbing incident pertaining to CCW
« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2011, 05:08:18 PM »
I think after waiting a week and burying the dogs he should leave it alone. Seek some religious or psychological counseling for himself and his daughter.
"THE KING OF BATTLE"


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Offline kjtrains

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Re: Disturbing incident pertaining to CCW
« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2011, 05:14:53 PM »
I do agree with leaving the situation alone; and counseling, as John says, would be a plus.
Let us have faith that right makes might, and in that faith, let us, to the end, dare to do our duty as we understand it.  Abraham Lincoln

Offline yankee2500

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Re: Disturbing incident pertaining to CCW
« Reply #6 on: March 30, 2011, 05:25:10 PM »
You never know, as soon as you say something one of the neighbors dogs will have been reported missing and according to them he was the sweetest most loving pet in the world. Now you have to deal with the Humane Society and the Animal Rights People will be picketing outside his house calling him a murderer.
"THE KING OF BATTLE"


"Cha togar m' fhearg gun dìoladh"

"The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it."
Thomas Jefferson

Offline Reinz

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Re: Disturbing incident pertaining to CCW
« Reply #7 on: March 30, 2011, 05:46:09 PM »
Quote
You never know, as soon as you say something one of the neighbors dogs will have been reported missing and according to them he was the sweetest most loving pet in the world. Now you have to deal with the Humane Society and the Animal Rights People will be picketing outside his house calling him a murderer.


So what?  

The dogs were not leased.
The dogs were in a pack.
The dogs were in Attack mode.
The dogs were on HIS land.

NO Brainer.


I lost a beloved companion/family pet to a pack of dogs.
She went on someone else's land.  I knew there was nothing I could do about it.

Except wait for members of the pack to step off their property.  
And one of them did.
NRA- LIFE  TSRA- LIFE  SASS-LIFE

Offline Phsimone

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Re: Disturbing incident pertaining to CCW
« Reply #8 on: March 30, 2011, 06:17:33 PM »
That is horrible, especially for his daughter, I agree with Ken and several others, leave it alone and immediate professional counseling for his daughter just to determine the damage and then proceed as CCW and the counselor feels necessary. I am truly sorry to hear something like this, truly horrible. I cannot imagine how terrified the little girl was.
Sorry CCW, I will add you and your daughter to my prayers tonight.
Phil

Offline Phsimone

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Re: Disturbing incident pertaining to CCW
« Reply #9 on: March 30, 2011, 07:07:22 PM »
After appropriate correction was received my prayers this evening will be re-directed to the family member and his daughter. I was worried about CCW for a bit there.

Offline jimtexas68

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Re: Disturbing incident pertaining to CCW
« Reply #10 on: March 30, 2011, 07:18:48 PM »
I would be more concerned with his daughters emotional state. She just saw her dad burn down three dogs with a very loud gun and probably the first time she witnessed death first hand of an animal. I'm sure with lots of talking with his child she will be fine. As for the dogs, I'm with the posters that say let it go. He was on his own land and for that matter protecting his daughters life. No brainer IMO. I'm just happy he actually had the Sig in his pocket or this may have been a totally different story.

Offline pelahale

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Re: Disturbing incident pertaining to CCW
« Reply #11 on: March 30, 2011, 07:32:21 PM »
Appreciate all the input.  I think I might let him read of your comments here for his peace of mind.  He is very shaken up by all this.  I suggested he talk this over with his preacher.  I think in my state (NC) there is clergy-client confidentiality, but not psychologist-client confidentiality.  I also think leaving this alone sounds like wise advice at this point.  He's just freaking out that someone might report something and the detectives might start snooping around, then convict him.  He definitely feels like he's a murderer and that he has sinned etc.  I think him seeing several people including me agree that he did the only thing possible will give him some relief.  

THe only technical point is if he did call 911 or at least call the police immediately after this incident, he'd probably be in the clear? Or would they have confiscated his weapon & cancelled his CCW license?  Should he have called/obtained a lawyer first?  I don't know about this.

Offline Richard S

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Re: Disturbing incident pertaining to CCW
« Reply #12 on: March 30, 2011, 07:37:35 PM »
Dogs? What dogs?
(1963-1967) "GO ARMY!"

Offline Reinz

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Re: Disturbing incident pertaining to CCW
« Reply #13 on: March 30, 2011, 07:39:39 PM »
Two things he HAS to get over, regardless of religious conviction:

1 - Dogs are NOT humans!  

Even though Disney, Hollywood and PETA have implanted otherwise.

2- Legally - he did what any normal and reasonalble man would do.  (sans the coverup)
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Offline tracker

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Re: Disturbing incident pertaining to CCW
« Reply #14 on: March 30, 2011, 07:48:09 PM »

Time will heal the wounds. It is important to talk, console, stay private, and not overreact.