Author Topic: Help Please, updated (Karl called)  (Read 26246 times)

Offline backupr9

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Help Please, updated (Karl called)
« on: February 10, 2012, 03:53:07 PM »
I left a message at Maria's number this a.m. re:  info on what was done to my R9 Covert which was failing to feed and finally got stuck with the slide about 3/4 inch open (I got it to close and sent it back for repair).  Karl very kindly called me back this afternoon to explain what was done.  In the process, I related the problem with the stripped grip screw.  (See my prior "help" post for details of that problem).  Explanations as follow:

1.  He said that the firing pin retainer was the culprit, only the "2nd out of 6000" documented.  It was out of speck, rubbing on the slide (accounting for the failures to feed) and catching (failure to return to battery).  He replaced it with an in-spec piece, replaced with a stronger extractor, and I think generally cleaned things up.  Don't know if the trip to Wilson Combat for the Covert upgrade could have had anything to do with the problem.

2.  He gave me a UPS number and asked me to sentd the pistol back ASAP so he could take care of the screw problem.  He said they use the lighter steel screw because people over-tighten the screws, and when the gun comes back they have to re-thread the stipped threads in the aluminum frame.  Word to the wise, use a little locktite blue, and re-tighten after each use if necessary, but don't overcrank those screws!

He is a great guy to shoot the breeze with.  I feel a lot better about my pistol for carry knowing what the problem was and what was done.  I'll put a hundred more rounds through it and start carrying again if all works well.

Suggest anyone who has taken down their pistol gently push on the firing pin retainer to see if it moves or rotates, especially if you have FTF and don't think you are limp-wristing the shots.
Thanks to all for the help on the previous post, and thank you Karl if you "are listening!"
John
"Those who would sacrifice a little freedom for a little order, will lose both, and deserve neither." 
Thomas Jefferson

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Offline Z

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Re: Help Please, updated (Karl called)
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2012, 04:06:36 PM »
I am glad Karl put you mind at ease.
I know it can be a frustrating situation to be in.

They do offer excellent customer service! :)

Offline kjtrains

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Re: Help Please, updated (Karl called)
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2012, 06:31:39 PM »
backup.  Thanks for the update.    :)
Let us have faith that right makes might, and in that faith, let us, to the end, dare to do our duty as we understand it.  Abraham Lincoln

Offline BlueC2

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Re: Help Please, updated (Karl called)
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2012, 06:33:54 PM »
The fact that the founder of the company called you personally makes me very proud to own Rohrbaughs!
-Ryan
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Re: Help Please, updated (Karl called)
« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2012, 07:12:48 PM »

backupr9,

Did I understand you correctly when you said that the factory uses light weight steel screws because we, the customers, have a tendency to overtorque the screws? As many here know I had a screw head failure at the range while firing and I had never touched the screws with a driver.

Offline MRC

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Re: Help Please, updated (Karl called)
« Reply #5 on: February 10, 2012, 07:31:58 PM »

backupr9,

Did I understand you correctly when you said that the factory uses light weight steel screws because we, the customers, have a tendency to overtorque the screws? As many here know I had a screw head failure at the range while firing and I had never touched the screws with a driver.


I guess if you are satisfied backupr9 I am glad for you.  As far as I am concerned it is time for Karl to stop talking his way out of this problem and fix the design which is causing it.  This problem pops up about 5 times a year on the forum and who knows how many other times which aren't discussed here.

I have had no problems with my grip screws.  I use 'Yankee's alloy screws' and tighten every couple of magazines fired.  As ridiculous as that sounds, that has been my solution.  Of all the guns I own and shoot, this is the first time I have heard of  this problem.

Offline backupr9

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Re: Help Please, updated (Karl called)
« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2012, 07:54:33 PM »
Apparently not all are as gentle with the screws...there have been multiple returns to the factory with stripped threads in the aluminum frame due to over-torquing the screws.  I have John's screws but have a similar set that came with the VZ carbon fiber grips, and have been careful not to over-tighten.  I, too, use a little Loctite blue and re-tighten as needed after each range session.

Some firearms, like some cars and most women are high maintenance, but worth it.  When there are problems, sometimes it's the horse and sometimes it's the rider.  So far, for me, it seems that the horse was the problem, but I'm hoping that all will be better.  I do love the weight, the feel, the way it sits on my hip at 4 o'clock in a good piece of leather, so I'm going to give her a little slack.  The plain Jane R9s that I sold last winter never gave me a minute's trouble...wish I had kept it also.
"Those who would sacrifice a little freedom for a little order, will lose both, and deserve neither." 
Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Help Please, updated (Karl called)
« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2012, 08:04:39 PM »

Well said.

Offline Robar233

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Re: Help Please, updated (Karl called)
« Reply #8 on: February 10, 2012, 08:21:45 PM »
Backup9,

 Thanks for the update it is good information to have. I am very glad Karl called you, that does speak well for the company and the product.
 
 Many pistols have there own little quirks about assembly/diss-assembly the R9 is no exception. Given that it is such a small frame and is taking a fair amount of recoil; the fact that grip screws might come loose should not be a surprise to anyone. If it happens to your gun use the Loctite and be done with it.

 I have seen my share of sights and safety/decocking levers falling off of big name brand duty pistols to know that stuff happens. I got rid of two pistols of a competitor of the R9 because they turned out to be to "quirky" for me.

 Is the R9 the perfect EDC gun, not in my opinion. I am not a huge 9mm fan, I think bigger is better. But it is the best thing that I have found for EDC. I have not had ANY failures or screws coming loose in 120 rounds. I will put some Loctite on before my next 60 round range date this spring.

 I guess a 9mm in the pocket every day is better than a .40 or .45 in the safe any day.

 Robar233

Offline BlueC2

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Re: Help Please, updated (Karl called)
« Reply #9 on: February 10, 2012, 08:33:26 PM »
I remember reading a post once but cant remember who said this but these are some words to live be with respect to adjusting grip screws:

Use a small 1/16 "L" shaped allen wrench. Hold the long part of the wrench and insert the short part when loosing screws, and this is the important part flip the wrench around and hold the small part and insert the long part when tightening the screws. This will significantly limit the amount of torque you can achieve when tightening the screws.

Also, as others have said use loctite blue.

-Ryan
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Re: Help Please, updated (Karl called)
« Reply #10 on: February 10, 2012, 09:00:32 PM »
The best description I heard a long time ago is,"finger tight." This has nothing to do with the long end or the short end but just common sense. Also, as has been said many times here loose screws are not the issue.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2012, 09:02:51 PM by tracker »

Offline C0untZer0

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Re: Help Please, updated (Karl called)
« Reply #11 on: February 11, 2012, 01:34:43 AM »
Mistakes can happen, but when I hear stories like this I have confidence in Carl and his company.


Offline MRC

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Re: Help Please, updated (Karl called)
« Reply #12 on: February 11, 2012, 07:55:41 AM »
I still feel the whole problem could be aleviated with a simple design change.  Is this asking too much from a $1200.00 pistol?  No one else has this trouble that I have heard of.

Offline Richard S

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Re: Help Please, updated (Karl called)
« Reply #13 on: February 11, 2012, 09:35:10 AM »
I have previously posted my preference for using rubber mini O-rings rather than Loctite to secure the grip screws on all of my handguns. I purchased an unmarked assortment through eBay and just pick and choose from the lot to find the right size for each pistol or revolver. However, since the Rohrbaugh's grip screws have a shank diameter of 0.096" . . .

http://www.acbsystems.com/boards/rohrbaugh/basefile/gripscrews.htm

. . . I believe AS-568 Dash No. 005 on this chart from Mid-Atlantic Rubber Co. would be the choice:

http://www.midatlanticrubber.com/pdf/oring_chart.pdf

« Last Edit: February 11, 2012, 03:09:54 PM by Richard S »
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Offline MRC

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Re: Help Please, updated (Karl called)
« Reply #14 on: February 11, 2012, 10:00:31 AM »
As an Engineer I am beginning to find this whole thing humorous:

   1. Buy your grips from VZ
   2. Buy your screws from Yankee
   3. Buy your o-rings from Richard S

Wow!  Problem solved.  There must be an easier way Karl.