Help Please, updated (Karl called)

[Richard S]

As an Engineer I am beginning to find this whole thing humorous:

   1. Buy your grips from VZ
   2. Buy your screws from Yankee
   3. Buy your o-rings from Richard S

Wow!  Problem solved.  There must be an easier way Karl.

And as a Lawyer, I calculate the potential returns from the resale of O-rings as being insufficient to justify the costs of incorporation, business licenses, capital outlay, inventory control, bookkeeping, and tax reporting.

I add custom touches to every firearm I own (except the "Crufflers"). If I were in the business of manufacturing firearms, I think I would keep things as simple as possible and leave after-market variations to the customers. Many gun owners prefer Loctite to secure their handgun grips. I personally do not, since I am prone to change out grips periodically just for the sheer he*l of it. 

[MRC]

This thread has gotten my curiosity up so I took my Kimber Solo off the nightstand and unloaded it to see how Kimber has approached fastening the plastic grips to the alloy frame.

I do not have a screw gauge here, but Kimber's grip screws take a 3/32" allen wrench and all four of the screws were tight.  I have put about 300 rounds through this pistol and I have to admit that I have failed to check them.  The screws are shorter than I expected and have no locktite on them that I could see.

The grips sit in an "inletted space" in the alloy frame as to make them nearly flush with the frame.  This also gives them support on all four side limiting  lateral movement.  The steel screws are anchored in fairly large steel bushings set into and fastened to the alloy frame.  Appears to be a very strong and well thought out design not unlike the steel bushings in Lightweight Commanders.

I have had no troubles, but Ammo Toad expressed that he had grip panel trouble on his Solo. Looking at this design I feel very confident with it.

While I was investigating this I also got out my Colt Pocket Nine.  Colt utilized screws which require a 5/64" allen wrench and are drilled and tapped into the alloy frame similar to Rohrbaugh.  I have never had any trouble with loose screws on the Colt with mavbe 500 to 1000 rounds.  They use soft rubber Hogue grips which probably work like Richeard's o-rings.  Just my guess.

[Trailblazer]

I like the idea of O rings.  Where can I get them?  What size?
Thanks

[Richard S]

I like the idea of O rings.  Where can I get them?  What size?
Thanks

This post has a link to the source from which I purchased my assorted lot:

http://www.rohrbaughforum.com/index.php?board=3.0

I think it took less than two weeks for delivery from the UK. Or you might try the Mid-Atlantic Rubber Co. link in my previous post.

[Dr. Gonzo]

As an Engineer I am beginning to find this whole thing humorous:

   1. Buy your grips from VZ
   2. Buy your screws from Yankee
   3. Buy your o-rings from Richard S

Wow!  Problem solved.  There must be an easier way Karl.

there is an easier way:

1. use the factory grips/ factory screws with a "drop" of blue loctite and snug them up after trip to said range.

2. use VZ grips/ VZ screws with a "drop" of blue loctite and snug them up after trip to said range.

is it that difficult? 
A couple of guys have a issue with screw-heads stripping (all the stories vary i.e. : too tight, too much loctite, i made a whoops...) and it becomes an inherent design flaw on the "thousand dollar gun" which is completely unacceptable b/c it's a "thousand dollar gun".

I remember last year i was shooting trap with my Beretta AL391, and part of the stock cracked. 400 rounds through the gun and a crack. i called Beretta and reminded them i payed 1150.00 out the door, didn't get through the second case of remington gun-club lights and the stock cracked. they said to send back the stock and they would send a new one...2 weeks go by and i was a happy camper with a new butt-stock. A part failed on the gun, it's still worth every penny of 1150.00, and doesn't make me wonder about it's obvious design flaws or question it's quality. If Karl stands by the R9 and calls you directly, that speaks volumes. I wonder what Mr. Beretta was doing that was so important that he couldn't call me 

[hoserack]

Just cleaned my R9 today and used a drop of blue loc tite on each screw.
I torqued them in really tight though, used the long side.
Will this mess something up?
Also since I put loc tite on screws do I still need to retighten screws after range time?

[MRC]

Dr Gonzo said

"there is an easier way:

1. use the factory grips/ factory screws with a "drop" of blue loctite and snug them up after trip to said range.

2. use VZ grips/ VZ screws with a "drop" of blue loctite and snug them up after trip to said range.

is it that difficult? 
A couple of guys have a issue with screw-heads stripping (all the stories vary i.e. : too tight, too much loctite, i made a whoops...) and it becomes an inherent design flaw on the "thousand dollar gun" which is completely unacceptable b/c it's a "thousand dollar gun"."

The method you are promoting has caused lots of trouble with more than a couple of guys here.  This is the method used at the Factory and backupr9 just stripped out the head of these tiny screws warranting another trip back to the factory even using added heat to soften the locktite.

I believe it is an inherent design flaw(tiny, soft screws without bushings) and it is unacceptable in a $300 gun let alone a $1200 gun.

Steel screws in an alloy frame without bushings is bad design especially when #3 screw are used. 

[yankee2500]

As an Engineer I am beginning to find this whole thing humorous:

   1. Buy your grips from VZ
   2. Buy your screws from Yankee
   3. Buy your o-rings from Richard S

Wow!  Problem solved.  There must be an easier way Karl.

there is an easier way:

1. use the factory grips/ factory screws with a "drop" of blue loctite and snug them up after trip to said range.

2. use VZ grips/ VZ screws with a "drop" of blue loctite and snug them up after trip to said range.

is it that difficult? 
A couple of guys have a issue with screw-heads stripping (all the stories vary i.e. : too tight, too much loctite, i made a whoops...) and it becomes an inherent design flaw on the "thousand dollar gun" which is completely unacceptable b/c it's a "thousand dollar gun".

I remember last year i was shooting trap with my Beretta AL391, and part of the stock cracked. 400 rounds through the gun and a crack. i called Beretta and reminded them i payed 1150.00 out the door, didn't get through the second case of remington gun-club lights and the stock cracked. they said to send back the stock and they would send a new one...2 weeks go by and i was a happy camper with a new butt-stock. A part failed on the gun, it's still worth every penny of 1150.00, and doesn't make me wonder about it's obvious design flaws or question it's quality. If Karl stands by the R9 and calls you directly, that speaks volumes. I wonder what Mr. Beretta was doing that was so important that he couldn't call me 

The problem with using loctite on the factory Stainless screws and then trying to remove them is it can lead to the head stripping out because the Stainless is soft. By using Alloy Steel screws you minimize this issue.
  Sending the gun back to the factory on your dime is pretty expensive for a screw removal that in all likelihood may have been avoided if the factory had used alloy screws or even a larger size screw.

A cracked stock is a little different type of issue because it's not man made, unless you had a plastic stock, which i doubt.
 

[Jack_F]

Just cleaned my R9 today and used a drop of blue loc tite on each screw.
I torqued them in really tight though, used the long side.
Will this mess something up?
Also since I put loc tite on screws do I still need to retighten screws after range time?

I just changed my stainless screws with a new set from Rohrbaugh. They had been in and out of the gun for eight years. I have NEVER used locktite and they have NEVER came lose. I examined them under magnification they were starting to round out but still worked. If I have to use loctite on any of my guns I will sell or trade them off. I have shot over a 100 rounds in a single practice session.

[hoserack]

I have shot 1000 rounds at least out of my R9 with no problems.
I have had to tighten screws every other cleaning.
I recently stripped a screw out.
I was able to back it out and I replaced that one and loc tited them all in today.

1. I have always tightened them as far as I could without stripping the screws. Nothing seems to have mal functioned so far.
2. Will the loc tite hold or should I try to tighten them after shooting still?
3. What gets damaged by over tightening the screws?
4. What will I have to do to back out screws now that I have used loc tite?

[tracker]

Just buy John's screws, a Hudy driver, or maybe use the o-rings on the factory screws, no loc-tite; and fuggedaboutit--enough already. All you have to do is gently retighten once in awhile.

What you have to do to back out the screws as you described is to use the Hudy driver and if that is a problem, put a hot soldering iron on the screw head for a few seconds and that should loosen the loc-tite; that is what worked for me.

[Dr. Gonzo]

The problem with using loctite on the factory Stainless screws and then trying to remove them is it can lead to the head stripping out because the Stainless is soft. By using Alloy Steel screws you minimize this issue.
  Sending the gun back to the factory on your dime is pretty expensive for a screw removal that in all likelihood may have been avoided if the factory had used alloy screws or even a larger size screw.

A cracked stock is a little different type of issue because it's not man made, unless you had a plastic stock, which i doubt.
 

ok, i gotcha on the alloy screws now! I should have said that i use the Loctite only when i shoot it at the range. Apart from that, i wouldn't put it on and leave it. Then after i shoot i snug them up.

believe it or not, it was a plastic stock. One of those Dick's sporting goods specials...Black Synthetic w/ Nickel Receiver. Crack was right at the start of the grip/ meeting the rear of the receiver.

[Robar233]

 I have the C/C in hand and will order the below items today!

 MRC Sig Sauer has started shipping their P229's with Loctite on the screws from the factory due to the fact they loosen up. I think any small to mid sized aluminum frame pistol, of significant caliber, is going to be prone to this problem. I am not an engineer like some here but I have been to several factory schools to work on different firearms for 25 years. This is just a factor of the forces and materials used. I don't think you can re-engineer this problem away. Just figure out the best solution for you and stick with it.

 Robar233

 

[MRC]

I have the C/C in hand and will order the below items today!

 MRC Sig Sauer has started shipping their P229's with Loctite on the screws from the factory due to the fact they loosen up. I think any small to mid sized aluminum frame pistol, of significant caliber, is going to be prone to this problem. I am not an engineer like some here but I have been to several factory schools to work on different firearms for 25 years. This is just a factor of the forces and materials used. I don't think you can re-engineer this problem away. Just figure out the best solution for you and stick with it.

 Robar233

I just happen to have my 229 sitting on the table beside my desk.  I have never had any rouble with the screws so I have never looked at it.  It appears that there are no bushings looking into the mag well.  The plastic grips wrap around the backstrap so when the 40 cal or 357 goes off it recoils into the grips and really not putting much force on the grip screws.  I am not going to remove the screws but they are a large pan-head type.

I do not have trouble with locktite.  I have trouble with the soft, #3 screws that they use.  I found that Rohrbaugh's OEM grips to be less than desirable and wanted to replace them as a large number of owners do and this has been a continuing problem for them. 

         How many forums have long threads on grip screw removal?

         Using soft screws so the owners don't strip out the frame holes?  You have to be kidding.

You don't have to be an engineer to see something is wrong and has a simple solution if you care to solve it.  Just my opinion.

[JohnBT]

I bought a used R9 5 years ago - R6xx  fwiw - and the screws would not budge, so I've left them alone. I shoot it regularly and carry it everyday and it doesn't appear to me that the grips need to be removed in order to keep the gun in good working order.

The design seems just fine so far.

John