The Rohrbaugh Forum

Rohrbaugh Products and Accessories => Cleaning and Maintenance of the R-9 => Topic started by: OCD on November 10, 2007, 06:55:26 PM

Title: Spring replacement
Post by: OCD on November 10, 2007, 06:55:26 PM: Hi all, just had my R9S Stealth delivered. The manual says to replace the recoil spring every 100 rds. I thought I read somewhere that it is now 200 or 250?? Anyone know for sure?? Thanks.
Title: Re: Spring replacement
Post by: shakermountain on November 10, 2007, 08:52:27 PM: I shot 100 rds of Winchester White Box 115 gr. JHP's and my new R9 didn't even belch. The spring still looks identical to the other unused one that came with the gun. I'm going to shoot another box with the used spring just to see what happens. If I get a FTF or a stovepipe I'll change the spring out.
Title: Re: Spring replacement
Post by: kwesi on November 10, 2007, 09:42:47 PM: Quote
Hi all, just had my R9S Stealth delivered. The manual says to replace the recoil spring every 100 rds. I thought I read somewhere that it is now 200 or 250?? Anyone know for sure?? Thanks.

The original springs have one close and and one open end and should he changed every 100 rounds.

The new springs are closed on both ends and Rohrbaugh recommends it be changed every 200 rounds.
Title: Re: Spring replacement
Post by: OCD on November 11, 2007, 12:04:58 AM: Mine has the closed at both ends. Thanks
Title: Re: Spring replacement
Post by: theirishguard on November 11, 2007, 11:46:47 AM: OCD, strong hands works ;) Tom
Title: Re: Spring replacement
Post by: OCD on November 11, 2007, 09:07:26 PM: Quote
OCD, strong hands works ;) Tom

I am not that strong but was able to use my fingers. So is 200 rounds the "offical" recomended change interval??
Title: Re: Spring replacement
Post by: Savior_6 on October 02, 2008, 10:00:46 PM: kwesi, thanks for the explaination on the difference in springs. I did not realize that the ends could be open on one end and closed on another until I disassembled my weapon today. Unfotunately some dumbass (probably me :-[) put the spring on the wrong way and it caused some slight damage to the guide rod base. It is also most likely the reason that I had some FTFeeds when last at the range. It's more asthetic than functional, but none-the-less could have proved fatal in undesired circimstances. I have replaced it with another older style spring, but put it on the proper way this time, now knowing the difference. Again Thanks ;)
Title: Re: Spring replacement
Post by: kwesi on November 07, 2008, 09:55:46 AM: Quote
kwesi, thanks for the explaination on the difference in springs. I did not realize that the ends could be open on one end and closed on another until I disassembled my weapon today. Unfotunately some dumbass (probably me :-[) put the spring on the wrong way and it caused some slight damage to the guide rod base. It is also most likely the reason that I had some FTFeeds when last at the range. It's more asthetic than functional, but none-the-less could have proved fatal in undesired circimstances. I have replaced it with another older style spring, but put it on the proper way this time, now knowing the difference. Again Thanks ;)

You are welcome. Don't be too hard on yourself though...most of us can relate in one way or another. Has it corrected the FTFeeds?
Title: Re: Spring replacement
Post by: Carter on November 18, 2008, 11:15:57 AM: The required recoil spring replacement is the one thing that gives me hesitation about the R9S I'm picking up next week.

I understand the basic idea, but I can't understand why there isn't way that a more robust spring can't be used.

If a spring is expected to suffer significant degradation after only 200 cycles (so much so that it needs to be replaced), then what are the statistical odds of it failing within just 10 or 20 rounds occasionally?

There's got to be a better way.

With that said, I'm very happy to make this my deep conceal CCW pistol when I need to travel "light".
I just think there has to be some simple design change that would allow a more permanent fix for something so critical to the operation of the pistol.
Title: Re: Spring replacement
Post by: tracker on November 18, 2008, 12:12:57 PM: Your concern about springs has been the subject of some prior
discussion. Some of us thought that chromium-silicon alloy springs
might answer the question of "set" and spring life.
Apparently, Rohrbaugh looked into this and decided to go with the
springs that are currently offered, the second generation of springs.
Title: Re: Spring replacement
Post by: alligosh on November 23, 2008, 12:07:40 PM: The new springs are supposed to be able to go up to 500 - 700 rounds without any issues, but Rohrbaugh suggests changing every 200 as this is designed as a life saving tool and a $5 spring every 200 rounds is a small price to pay to be sure it will work 100% when needed.
Title: Re: Spring replacement
Post by: Slick on November 23, 2008, 06:32:31 PM: Quote
If a spring is expected to suffer significant degradation after only 200 cycles (so much so that it needs to be replaced), then what are the statistical odds of it failing within just 10 or 20 rounds occasionally?

I just replaced my spring this week and you can see the difference comparing a new spring and one that has had 200+rds of use. I'm sure they'll go up to 500rds or so, but then again, the early replacement recommendation is to help reduce wear and tear. I can't see a spring failing as you mentioned above.
Title: Re: Spring replacement
Post by: theirishguard on November 30, 2008, 01:14:15 PM: OCD, now that you have your pup, join our little group, pull up a chair and sit close to the campfire and enjoy. Tom
Title: Re: Spring replacement
Post by: Carter on December 01, 2008, 08:00:01 AM: I just got mine last week and it came with a card that said it was produced just a week before I got it.
So on the premise that you can never have enough information, my serial number is 31xx, so I guess that defines how many have been made, being in the 3100's?

While still not delighted with the required spring replacement at each 200 rounds, I don't really have an issue with it.
The $5 for a spring is only a small fraction of what the 200 rounds of ammo for each change costs, so that's not a big deal for something that keeps the R9 in top reliable form.
And being a specialized self defense pistol and NOT a range plinker, this pistol probably won't see much more ammo through it than to insure it's reliability with that ammo.
Training?.. What training? It's an up-close and personal kind of pistol that only requires that you know where it's at and that you can get ahold of it. ;)

I think what I'll do is to just get a dozen of the darn springs and keep them in the case. Probably won't ever have to buy them again if I go that route.

By the way, this R9S Stealth is a real sweetie! My favorite "small" carry pistol, a 1974 PPK, has now been permanently retired to the safe.

The only decison yet to make is if I want to mount a CT on the R9, although I'm leaning in the direction of not to.
Title: Re: Spring replacement
Post by: theirishguard on December 01, 2008, 11:30:13 AM: Carter, When you start shooting and carrying the pup, the spring replacement issue will be forgotten. it's a good idea to order some extra springs. Bond should also replace his PPK for the R9s like the other agent. Tom
Title: Re: Spring replacement
Post by: Slick on December 01, 2008, 11:42:52 AM: Don't forget to make sure the grip screws are tight. They do come loose.
Title: Re: Spring replacement
Post by: Savior_6 on December 30, 2008, 01:30:47 AM: kwesi, a bit late on the reply, but the Pup seems to be working fine. I had a buddy of mine give it a go, but we only had about 1/2 an hour to work with at the range so he only did a few rounds for fam fire. I'm positive that the problem was solved as I notice the problem during manual cycling of the slide and have not felt the same problem since.
Title: Re: Spring replacement
Post by: mefly2 on September 28, 2009, 10:07:54 PM: May I ask at what OAL measurement the spring sho8ld be replaced; my new / removed from pistol spring measures 1.5065 inches ?
Title: Re: Spring replacement
Post by: tracker on September 28, 2009, 10:32:20 PM: I don't think this is an exact science: 200 rds. or whenever you feel you need it; for example, someone asked if they should change the spring after not firing it for two years: probably so.
Title: Re: Spring replacement
Post by: mefly2 on October 09, 2009, 12:13:01 PM: I'll still hold out for some dimensional numbers. The recoil impulse will be different with regard to CBon light mass HP rounds versus 147 grain FMJ rounds. Likely that is some of the variance/wear between changing out the main recoil spring at 100 rounds versus the previously stated 500 rounds. The pistol is designed for serious social encounters and I would like to know the criteria for spring evaluation rather than a variable round count.

It is akin to saying that a Rolex needs service at a specified interval as well versus automatically replacing the mainspring at x-years of use. As a leo, it would be more comfortable knowing the length criteria for change as opposed to number of rounds ... sometimes that count is easily lost. I will measure & post my spring lengths at various intervals - but that will not take into account variations in wear due to differences in cartridge manufacture / mass of bullet / velocities. Thanks for your input.
Title: Re: Spring replacement
Post by: Chinook on February 16, 2010, 08:05:53 PM: I just did a spring replacement after about 200 rounds. I've changed the spring before but never measured it.

My old spring was approximately 1/8" shorter than any of my new ones. My new ones are 1 19/32".

It would be interesting to measure a given spring after 50, 100, 150 and 200 rounds to see if the shortening is linear. That would be pretty easy to do for me as I seldom shoot more than 50 rounds at a time and I always (OK, usually) clean after shooting. But don't watch this space; I'm not very reliable these days (ask my wife...).

Regards
Title: Re: Spring replacement
Post by: Writer_Ron on February 18, 2010, 11:12:09 PM: I've been meaning to ask ... does racking the slide (which obviously compresses the spring) count as a "round"? AFAIK, compression coil springs don't wear out unless repeatedly compressed into a "solid," which must happen during an R9's recoil.

Ron
Title: Re: Spring replacement
Post by: tracker on February 18, 2010, 11:25:09 PM: I don't change the spring on the number but just check the length of the spring compared to a new one. Recently, I changed one at about 150 rds. It is mildly irritating that these springs must still be changed so frequently.
Title: Re: Spring replacement
Post by: Chinook on February 19, 2010, 12:24:19 AM: At what delta-length do you change the spring? Mine was only 1/8" less; would you have changed that one? Thanks
Title: Re: Spring replacement
Post by: kjtrains on February 19, 2010, 07:46:23 AM: I probably would have, although don't think it would be necessary. I would go by the round count; now that's just me. In your case, since I had it out, I would have changed it just because I knew it was shorter.

A comment on Ron's question on racking the slide. I have heard that you should count racking the slide as a round, but whose counting. Others may disagree and that's OK.
Title: Re: Spring replacement
Post by: ultrared on April 14, 2010, 03:14:11 PM: Does the same rule of spring replacement apply to the .380 cal. pistols?
Title: Re: Spring replacement
Post by: FloridaCCW on April 14, 2010, 06:31:58 PM: no :)
Title: Re: Spring replacement
Post by: kjtrains on April 17, 2010, 09:10:21 AM: ultrared. Welcome to the Forum. Post often.
Title: Re: Spring replacement
Post by: Richard S on April 17, 2010, 11:33:53 AM: Quote
Carter, When you start shooting and carrying the pup, the spring replacement issue will be forgotten. it's a good idea to order some extra springs. Bond should also replace his PPK for the R9s like the other agent. Tom

This agent? ;)

(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y30/RichardS/QuantumofSolaceOlgawithR9.jpg)
Title: Re: Spring replacement
Post by: kjtrains on April 17, 2010, 11:49:44 AM: I believe that's the one! :)
Title: Re: Spring replacement
Post by: cordy on April 30, 2010, 02:36:42 PM: I have shot/racked my Pup about 100 - 150 times and from the get go I have a FTF almost every other time I shoot so I from the start I tried several (4) types of different ammo to see if that was the problem. Two of the ammo changes were very good critical Defense Ammo (Hornady & Winchester) & still 50% FTF. Could I be having a spring problem that would cause 50% failures? The cartridges that don't fire look like they are not hit hard enough compared to the ones that go off. My spring has lost about 1/8" of it's length in the 2 weeks I have owned it & the 100-150 shots/racks. What do you think?

Jim
Title: Re: Spring replacement
Post by: MountainMan on May 05, 2010, 01:00:16 PM: Quote
I have shot/racked my Pup about 100 - 150 times and from the get go I have a FTF almost every other time I shoot so I from the start I tried several (4) types of different ammo to see if that was the problem. Two of the ammo changes were very good critical Defense Ammo (Hornady & Winchester) & still 50% FTF. Could I be having a spring problem that would cause 50% failures? The cartridges that don't fire look like they are not hit hard enough compared to the ones that go off. My spring has lost about 1/8" of it's length in the 2 weeks I have owned it & the 100-150 shots/racks. What do you think?

Jim

Jim,
I have been absent from the forum for awhile.
You don't say how old your R9 is. I know many older ones that had FTF (Feed) problems had them solved by going to the new stronger magazine springs.

If your problem is FTF (Fire) from weak primer hits give Rohrbaugh a call.

Dave
Title: Re: Spring replacement
Post by: cordy on May 05, 2010, 09:38:31 PM: My Pup is 2 weeks old & the FTF (Failure to Fire) problem is the that it won't shoot 90% of the factory ammo so I'm left only shooting 2 types of ammo (Speer Gold Dot & Fed American Eagle FMJ) because I can't get Win Silvertip.
Title: Re: Spring replacement
Post by: tracker on May 05, 2010, 10:46:07 PM: Cordy,
Don't despair; many of us have been through similar difficulties and inevitably it will work out; just keep using the ammo that works for you.
Either the gun improves or the factory will fix it.
Title: Re: Spring replacement
Post by: cordy on May 05, 2010, 11:37:54 PM: I guess I'm stuck with it for now but I love the little burger and would really like to shoot the best/newest ammo out there, if possible, but I'll live with it. Question: My recoil spring is now measuring 36.14mm after about 250 shots/racks. A new one measures 40.3mm & I wonder how short it will go or when it will start to fail so I'll have a gauge for replacement. I'll slow down on shooting it as soon as I get fully use to it, get fully comfortable & secure with the CD ammo & John's grip extension he made for me.
Title: Re: Spring replacement
Post by: tracker on May 06, 2010, 12:14:34 AM: There is no fail point with the spring and you should change it at the recommended interval; like now. Did you say CD ammo as in Critical Defense? If so, don't bother and try something else that works.
Title: Re: Spring replacement
Post by: Chinook on May 06, 2010, 12:05:19 PM: I only buy and use two types of ammo in my pup. Winchester white box for practice and Speer gold dot for carry (and occasional practice). I have never had either fail.

Don't forget that, while Walmart usually carries WWB, they are NOT shooter friendly (don't let their large supply of hunting supplies confuse you on this important point). It will cost a few pennies more per shot, but try to support your local gun shop!
Title: Re: Spring replacement
Post by: cordy on May 06, 2010, 07:08:10 PM: I think the factory recommends 200-300 shots/racks doesn't it? What affects will you encounter if you go to long on the spring replacement? I'm shooting the hell out of it now that I got the right ammo.
Title: Re: Spring replacement
Post by: kjtrains on May 06, 2010, 07:52:25 PM: The factory recommends 200 rds and change springs. I don't know what would happen if you continue to shoot. Probably, failure to eject. I just do what the factory recommends and go from there and everything works as it should.
Title: Re: Spring replacement
Post by: Richard S on May 06, 2010, 09:14:25 PM: The cost of recoil springs is minimal, and I have a bundle of them in reserve. Actually, I view the routine changing of recoil springs as simply one step in the process of keeping the "instrument" in tune. Even Fender guitars, Stradivarius violins, and Lamborghini Murciélagos need to be kept in tune.

The Rohrbaugh R9 is the smallest, lightest, pocket pistol yet designed and produced for the 9mm Parabellum cartridge. It's tolerances are precise and minimal. As has been said before, "This ain't your granddaddy's 1911." 8)
Title: Re: Spring replacement
Post by: sslater on May 06, 2010, 11:48:42 PM: I'm with Richard. The 9mm Parabellum is a high pressure round (38,500 psi) so that little recoil spring is what keeps the slide from battering the frame to death during recoil.
There have been pictures posted of wear on the frame down below the rails. I think most of that wear occurs when the recoil spring has gotten weak.

Hey, look at it this way: At about $5 per spring, that's like 3 or 4 rounds of premium ammo at today's outrageous prices!

So we should all do ourselves and our R9 pistols a favor and replace those recoil springs sooner rather than later. :P

Steve
Title: Re: Spring replacement
Post by: FloridaCCW on May 09, 2010, 09:58:04 PM: New thread on Glock Talk

http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1218737
Title: Re: Spring replacement
Post by: gdavis2265 on May 09, 2010, 10:47:06 PM: wow - great report
Title: Re: Spring replacement
Post by: kjtrains on May 10, 2010, 07:25:56 AM: Quote
New thread on Glock Talk

http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1218737

Thanks, CCW! I guess you've picked up your new .380 by now!