Oil instead of Grease?

[Michigunner]

I've been wondering if the R9 owner could stop using grease, and switch to ordinary oil, maybe Rem Oil or Mobil-1, and  certainly apply a generous amount.

My theory is if you only intend to shoot 6+1 and then stop, it seems like oil should be sufficient for that small amount of activity.  I would think oil could even handle two magazines during a shooting session.

The thought of all that grease is contrary to our earlier education about firearms.  Of course, I recognize that Rohrbaugh knows what is appropriate for the R9.

I would never take the risk of voiding the warranty by using oil, but it is an interesting topic.

Bill

[MountainMan]

Teflon dangers in gun lubricants and possible problems using Blazer ammo.

Bill,

I've also wonder why Superlube - what about a good gease like Militec

Doesn't Superlube have teflon in it?  I could be wrong but I thought it did - misplaced my tube for now to look.

Larry Seecamp on the Seecamp forum mentions some possible problems using teflon lubricants.

The link to that thread below also address something very interesting.  Seecamp has had problems with misfires when people use Blazer ammo.  Seems the aluminum from the case plates itself to the chamber and resizes it = the only way to remove the aluminum plating is to use  a reamer - something a normal Joe may not attempt on his own.  Read the entire page - interesting.

http://seecamp.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl/YaBB.pl?board=lws_32;action=display;num=1134749000;start=7#7

[tracker]

Bill,
I agree with you.

[Michigunner]

Assuming that only 1 or 2 magazines would be fired, oil is starting to sound good to me.

The only negative thing is the possibility that the system is "timed" based upon the use of grease.  Most likely it was meant for extended firing sessions where oil was insufficient.

I just ordered 200 Silvertips last night.  The temptation is great to experiment with one magazine.  If that works, then the other magazine could be considered.

[Michigunner]

Dave, thanks for the important link about teflon.  I never have felt good about using Superlube.

Now, Mobil-1 is another matter.  That sounds like a winner.  You can go all over the internet and find people using it for their firearms.

While I'm thinking about it, my new HK USP 45 user manual says not to use oils that bond to the metal.  Of course, you would imagine they mean Militec-1.  They say that the lubricate may harm the primers.

I always keep it away from the primer, but nevertheless have followed their recommendation and not used it on the big 45.

Sorry about putting this oil topic in the wrong section of the forum.

[R9SCarry]

I had a spell of concern with my SIG last year - and having used on that Tetra grease and Militech grease, found that the grease was getting ''crud-bound'' - sufficient to slow the slide with drag such that std pressure ammo was giving trouble.  +P was OK.  Forget round count but it was not a huge thruput.

I ''retired the gun for a while while I analyzed the trouble - switching to SW99 and R9.  I satisfied myself that grease was indeed a problem.  SIG said I may need more break-in but - that was not it.

I am very concerned with R9 that having SS running on Al allow, that lube is good - but must confess I am now more inclined to lube with Militech1 or Mobil 1 and strip/clean/relube way more often.

I am confident that there will never be a gun running dry - and also feel happier that no crud ''thickening'' effect with grease will be experienced.

I respect Karl and Eric's recommendation re superlube but still feel better with my grease-free approach and relube often - minimal lube i might add, not a bath!  Less is more and adequate if frequent.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Bill - moved this to maintenance forum

[Michigunner]

Sounds good to me.  I'm switching to oil, and then strip and clean more often.

It's good to know others have reached the same conclusion.

  

[harrydog]

I've been using Militec-1 on mine almost from the beginning and sometimes I mix it with a bit of Militec grease. But I don't think grease is the best solution, especially in very cold weather.

[Michigunner]

harrydog,

I'm a big Militec-1 fan.  Bought a larger bottle after receiving the free sample.

Bill

[harrydog]

Yeah, I think Militec-1 is an outstanding lube.
 
On another note, if I were going to use a motor oil to lube my gun (which I'm not), I think there are better choices than Mobil 1.
Redline uses a basestock (polyol ester) which has an affinity for hot metal. In other words, it actually clings to metal as opposed to running off like the PAO basestock used by Mobil 1.
It also has a higher film strength and a lower coefficient of friction. At $8.00/quart it's expensive for a motor oil, but still dirt cheap as a gun lube.

[Michigunner]

I may have to back down about not using grease.   It looks like grease is mandatory.  No ifs, ands, or buts.

I intend to do normal carry with oil only, but always apply grease just before any Non-Emergency shooting.

The owner's manual has the following warning about the warranty.

Lubrication: Use quality grease on the barrel and frame as shown. It is imperative that you use grease in these areas. Failure to do so will cause the frame rails to wear prematurely and void your warranty. You may use quality gun oil for the rest of the firearm.

[R9SCarry]

Good point you make Bill - and as I said before I respect Eric and Karl's mandate.

That probably is way to go - but I do have reservations still on slide drag possibly induced by crud laden grease - my SIG problem proved that for me beyond all doubt.

Bottom line is anyways - clean and relube more rather than less.

[dctfn]

I have used Militec-1 oil on my Sig slides for a very long time without any problems whatsoever. A typical range setting for me is 2-3 hundred rounds through one pistol. When I disassemble for cleaning there is still plenty of oil in the slide and frame grooves. Actually I applied Militec grease to my P210 and racking the slide was very sluggish. I guess mainly due to such tight tolerences. Wiped it off and back to the oil.

IMO the grease thing is overstated, and the only advantages is less chance of getting lub on your cloths and holster. The other is firing a pistol that has been setting in the safe or holstered for quite some time without checking for lub on the slide.

Now with smaller pistols, there may be an entirely different applicable scenario that I am missing, and I would very much like to be educated on those facts.

Tomorrow my new pup heads to the range for some breaking in and I plan to experiment with Militec-1 grease and oil.

Range report provided over the week-end.

Thanks for listening!!
Fred

[R9SCarry]

Additional lube thoughts.

Still not wishing to go against the R policy but as I have mentioned re my SIG experiences - I am firmly of the opinion that grease ''drag'' can be a factor.  I am tho equally cognisant of the need for good lubrication betwen SS slide and allow frame.

I'll just restate my thinking that a good oil will be persistent enough between frequent clean/lube cycles and seems to be a safer bet for carry.  The protection needed is primarily for sliding - not compression like auto engine big end shells - and yet modern lubricants can take that enormous load well and so the sliding protection is I feel easily managed.

Tight tolerances and grease are where I feel the potential problem can exist - and I too have noticed on stripping R9 or SIG, that after significant useage, the oil presence is well apparent - it does not get lost.

For all else other than slide I still think grease is best - all the points shown in Eric's pic sequence.

I stress I am only thinking out loud and not making a recommendation to countermand the R policy - Eric may yet chew me out for thinking this way!  I will tho for reliability sacrifice my warranty to achieve this and as an aging engineer feel satisfied that I am not in fact prejudicing the gun's wear at all.  Strip/clean/lube is no big deal any more even if made way more frequent.

[dctfn]

R9SCarry

Well stated and +1.

Another thought just struck me in comparing small to large pistols that may very well be out in left field, but here goes. Oil placed full length of longer slide/frame, therefore more oil by volume displaced along the entire surface during cycling. Conclusion longer slide =longer oil life per application.

Short slide/frame just the opposite effect. A very light coat of grease my be a better application for short slide/frame

Whew, time for a shot of Wild Turkey 101.  

Fred