Extraction Failures

[musician]

I have R9S #128.  My dealer has R9 #127.  I took both to the range for reliability testing.  Through #128 I shot 50 rounds Sellier & Bellot FMJ, 50 rounds Blazer Brass FMJ, 14 rounds Speer Gold Dot 115g HP and 14 rounds Gold Dot 147g HP.  I had a total 31% failure rate, all of them extraction failures.  The extractor would pull the empty about 1/2 way free of the chamber then let it go, jamming the slide back (in the slide's attempt to strip a new round from the mag, the new round was trapped by the 1/2-out empty and had no place to go).  The pressure of the new round against the empty prevented clearing the empty with a fingernail.  No. 127 had a similar failure rate, all extraction problems.

We've sent both guns back to Rohrbaugh, who confirmed what I deduced: the magazines are too long (by only .002").  This I concluded caused the top round in the mag to press up against the empty coming out, which caused the extractor to let go since the horizontal plane of the extractor pull and empty was broken.

Don't have the guns back yet, but Karl insists we'll get 'em back working perfectly.  I'll let everyone know.

Incidentally, the literature which says to change out the recoil spring after 500 rounds was printed before they changed recoil springs.  Now it's either 4,000 or 4,500 rounds (I forget which).  that would pretty much be a lifetime of shooting these guns, since I don't know anyone who would WANT to shoot 'em that much and endure the recoil!

[pocketman]

Thanks for the report.

There has been a magazine change correct? It may have been to solve the problem you had??

[musician]

Don't know about a magazine change generally.  Karl said our two guns may have gotten out of the factory before they solved one small problem they discovered with the initial batch (he thought they had examined and "fixed" all the guns before shipment).  I presume we're getting new mags of the proper length.

[pocketman]

I'll have mine tomorrow, my dealer told me there was a magazine issue that was being fixed and my R9 would be shipped when the new mags came in.

I'm not sure if he was just tring to calm my nerve's but that is what he told me.

[Meggacatz]

Of about 160 mixed ammo rounds (both FMJ and HP) I had failures on: the first round (FTE), about round #4 (failed to chamber as the FMJ nose was stuck near the base of the feedramp. Gentle pressure on the back of the slide fixed the misfeed), about round 80 (another FTE). Other wise my 1st experience was positive. Although I did notice the base on my mags seems to come off quite easily, especially when the mag is empty. Sometimes the heel clip would push the base off when the mags is inserted into the pistol. This should be an easy fix.
Otherwise mine works well, just need tweaked. I'm satisified.

[R9SCarry]

Forgive me plugging my own range report ... again!  I only do so cos it's relevant to this discussion. .....

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?threadid=81781

I had one FTE and that was with some rubbish UMC ammo!!  My very first mag of ammo tho, when Eric brought the gun to a March PA shoot .... I had an FTE which was limp writing (hahaha ... I mean wristing - of course!) .. so I know that can happen.

I waited extra time for my gun .. and that IIRC was mostly due to them wanting to resolve the mag issues.  I can say so far mine is very reliable ... even cycled with junk ''A-Merc'' 9mm .. which had velocities worthy of a worn out air weapon!!

[DDGator]

Musician,

Karl is trying to get ahold of you regarding your gun.  Check your private messages here or your e-mail.

Thanks.

[musician]

Spoke with Eric Friday early a.m.  Both Karl and Steve (gunsmith) are gone until Tuesday.  Steve wants to discuss the problem with me, since Eric said they have shot both #127 and 128 "extensively" with no failures.  If they cannot find a problem, then of course I may have to admit the problem lies with me, since I am the only one who has shot both of these guns.  That is a subject I will discuss thoroughly with Steve (and Karl).  If I have modify the way I customarily shoot semi's, of course I will, and I'll post the substance of my conversation on this topic.  When the guns are returned, I'm taking the owner of 127 to the range, so that if the problem still exists when I shoot, I'll turn both guns over to Bob and let him shoot them, and see what happens.

[RJ HEDLEY]

"Although I did notice the base on my mags seems to come off quite easily, especially when the mag is empty. Sometimes the heel clip would push the base off when the mags is inserted into the pistol. "   quote
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`

I noticed this as well..

[musician]

UPDATE.  I spoke with Steve, the gunsmith at Rohrbaugh, late Tuesday afternoon.  My conversation with him was a bit less than satisfying or educational.  When my dealer returned the guns (#'s 127 and 128) to the factory, they were accompanied by charts I made showing how many failures occurred in each magazine load and which ammo brand was used, a narrative of my experiences, and an 8x10 photo showing a typical failure.  Steve seemed to be unaware of the facts thus set forth, even though he said he had my paperwork laid out in front of him.  I even had to straighten him out that the failures were extraction failures, not feed failures.  The only thing he told me was what I already knew: they couldn't duplicate the problem with either gun.  I therefore do not know what to conclude from all this.  When I get the guns back, my dealer and I are both going to the range, and HE will shoot them while I watch and then I will shoot them, which should confirm whether the problem lies with the guns or with my shooting syle.  More later as the story unfolds.

[musician]

FURTHER UPDATE:  I told my dealer (owner of #127) about my phonecon with Steve (gunsmith).  He phoned Eric, who told him that one of our guns (couldn't recall if 127 or 128) needed to have the extractor adjusted because it wasn't set strong enough to reliably hold onto an empty case.  Eric said that they also adjusted ditto on the other gun, even though its extractor tension was within spec.  Our guns are being shipped back today.  If we get 'em in time, Dealer and I are going to the range early Saturday, and he will initially shoot while I keep the record.  I'll let you know how we do.

[R9SCarry]

I'll be interested to see how this works out.

[musician]

Got #128 back today.  Dealer and I are going to the range at 0700 tomorrow.  When I got it back, I immediately tested the extractor spring tension by pushing in the rear portion with my finger.  The spring has been adjusted now so that I must use my thumbnail and considerable pressure to move the extractor.  (When the gun was new, I could easily move the extractor with just fingertip pressure: I thought it was pretty wimpy at the time.)  I'll let everyone know how the range session goes.

[R9SCarry]

Just checked my extractor ... fairly strong pressure from thumbnail seems about it.

Look forward to hearing (good I hope) results from the range test.

[musician]

PROBLEM SOLVED!!!  My dealer and I went to the range just after dawn this morning, with a mixed bag of ammo (WWB, Blazer, Remington ball, Speer Gold Dot 115s and 147s, and 7 rounds of Extreme Shock Fang-Face ammo.  After firing about 60 rounds of the mix in each gun, neither gun had an extraction failure, so it appears that the factory adjustment of our wimpy extractor springs solved the problem.  the Extreme Shock ammo (really expensive, "explosive entry" rounds) would not reliably feed in this little gun, probably because they are markedly shorter than the usual fodder with a rounded (but fang-faced) bullet nose.  Thanks, Karl and Eric, for working hard to solve the problems.  Now I feel comfortable carrying the little beast, knowing it will bite if necessary.