Author Topic: R9s price increase and grip material change  (Read 10272 times)

Offline TW

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To shoot or not to shoot...is that the question...
« Reply #15 on: October 11, 2004, 06:59:44 PM »
"One thing I wonder is whether they might be rushing it too much as is.  Incursion's posts (http://www.rohrbaughforum.com/YaBB.cgi?board=R9S;action=display;num=1091 549418;start=75#75) on his 3% failure rate thus far may reflect a need for them to slow down, rather than speed up, production.  (Or it may reflect all sorts of other things, but this is the type of out-of-box-experience that costs companies a lot in both support costs and repuation.)"...From T-Cat

I doubt Incursion's problems stem from rushing things on the production end, otherwise I should think more folks would likewise be having similar problem with their guns...yes...?...no...??  One or two with problems out of the 200 plus guns sold does not, in my mind, justify recall/reputation tarnish.  That said, I think the problem(s) do deserve further examination and fix, if possible and as appropriate.

From all that I have read regarding problems incurred by Incursion my first thoughts were that shooting technique was the culprit...something about how the gun is positioned...squeezed...whatever.  Unfortunately we do not have the means to view Incursion's shooting style on this forum...maybe you can work on that, Gator - LOL.  

As I think I raised elsewhere on this topic - perhaps this gun is simply not the gun for Incursion...!  I must say I am surprised to hear how much Incursion shoots this gun...hundreds of rounds at a session...?  I realize he is trying to figure this gun out but it is simply not made to shoot all day long.  Also, for any other gun - cleaning it twice at the range in a 300+ round session would sound a bit extreme.  But as I understand it from Eric the R9 should be broken down and cleaned every 50-80 shots.  This says to me that Incursion's gun may in fact be under lubbed for how it is being shot...again, indicating this may not be the gun for Incursion?  

I also question the idea of whiping off the factory lube???  Again - would be great if Gator could set up video loops on the forum so we could see how Incursion lubes this gun vs. factory instruction.  

I am not at all saying this as a put down of Incursion...rather an examination of his use and treatment of this gun compared to how it is meant to be treated.  Somehow I have this vision of a guy in the trenches of WWII taking on the enemy alone with his trusty Colt 45...cilp after clip after clip...  The R9 is not to be treated like the Colt.  It's more of a walking down the street late at night being confronted by the Biker King for your money and life - type of gun...as in - you say what...?...bam, bam, bam with four left over.

To Incursion...wish I had an original Colt .45 in primo condition to swap you for your R9.  But then I'd probably keep that Colt...  

Just my thoughts.  Feel free to pick them apart...but always remember how we have been taught to care and use the R9...TW<<  

Offline RJ HEDLEY

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Re: R9s price increase and grip material change
« Reply #16 on: October 11, 2004, 07:47:50 PM »
As I read of Icursion's R9 experences, he is seemingly having some bad luck with the R9,  but I must agree with *TW's* thoughts.

I further believe, the Rohrbaugh's are quite thorough in their assembly, and pre-ship testing program.  The guys that assemble and test these weapons are not just your average employees, they ARE the heart of the Company !!  

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Offline Incursion

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Re: R9s price increase and grip material change
« Reply #17 on: October 12, 2004, 02:11:44 PM »
I'll break it down every 50 rounds this weekend.  I've been using FP-10 as the lube.  I put a drop on each of the rails and a drop on the barrel.  Everything else is just wiped down with a patch that has a single drop on it.

Offline TW

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To lube the R9...
« Reply #18 on: October 12, 2004, 03:20:10 PM »
>>I recently received the following note from Eric when I asked about using other, non-recommended lubricants for the R9.  Over and over again he has stressed to me here and elsewhere the importance of keeping this gun well lubed - and with the lubricants they use at the factory...anything other and you can expect problems.  In a phone conversation he went so far as to project the life expectancy of the R9 as being something over 5000 shots.  I can put that many rounds through a favorite 1911 in a year...!  The R9 is not meant to serve as a 1911.  Once an individual finds the right ammo for his/her gun and becomes proficient with it - it is meant to be kept in a pocket until needed...with perhaps a clip or two put through it from time to time to keep up our skills with this very purpose built tool.  Take all this for what it's worth to you...this is not new info...as I've read bits and pieces of everything in this post here on the Rohrbaugh forum in one place or another.  This post somehow morphed from a thread topic of finances, go figure...TW<<


"...the best way to ensure the reliable function, as best we can with this firearm due to the extremely close tolerances used in it's manufacture, it is best to take the slide off after every 50 to 80 rounds and give it a wipe down and some fresh lube. The R9 is a specialty built firearm and it needs that extra bit of care, due such a machine, to be ready when you need it. This extra care will pay off with dividends! We use Super Lube PTFE on the rails, the lockup area of the barrel, a little bit on the cone of the barrel (front bushing area if you will) and the barrel lug area itself. Other areas use Mobil One Synthetic motor oil 0-30 weight. This is good for the trigger pivot area, firing pin, magazine latch area and hammer area. Do this and she should perform very well for you. Most of the guns returned to us for warranty repair have all been absent of lubrication and dirty beyond belief!  We simply can not believe it."...Eric Rohrbaugh / 4 October '04

Offline Incursion

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Re: R9s price increase and grip material change
« Reply #19 on: October 12, 2004, 06:22:27 PM »
TW, why do you question wiping off the factory lube?  I shot 6-7 mags with the factory lube and couldn't get through a single magazine without a malfunction.  Once I got rid of the Vasoline-like lube that they use, it ran much better.  I'm going to try and keep a more detailed record of when/how my pistol jams this weekend.

Offline TW

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Re: R9s price increase and grip material change
« Reply #20 on: October 12, 2004, 08:10:17 PM »
Quote
TW, why do you question wiping off the factory lube?  I shot 6-7 mags with the factory lube and couldn't get through a single magazine without a malfunction.  Once I got rid of the Vasoline-like lube that they use, it ran much better.  I'm going to try and keep a more detailed record of when/how my pistol jams this weekend.

>>Hi Incursion...

I question wiping off the factory lube because it was put on by the folks who not only created the gun but have more experience with R9 function than all of us on this forum combined.  If this was a case of some dollar two ninety-eight grease monkey slapping universal oil on a Ford...then I might say it's ok to experiment beyond the box, but it's not.

As to problems you are having before and after wiping off factory lube...seems that you are having issues with the R9 across the board...yes...?...no...??  That being the case, it would seem to me your problems with the R9 go beyond lubrication (although proper lubrication is important)...could be your technique(?)...maybe anxious vibes flowing from you to the gun(??)...maybe gremlins(???!!!), who knows.  Maybe it is just a "bad" gun...but then why would it work well for Rohrbaugh as it originally left the factory and then again after they re-lubbed it at the factory before sending it back to you...??  I think we all believe Eric and Karl are honest guys...so where does that leave us...?  The only thing I can think of is to examine your grip and firing technique.  Can you or anyone else figure something else to look at...?

Incursion, at this point you have a forum full of folks who would like to know what the real issue is between you and your R9.  For one - I'm sure everyone here would like to see you happy with the gun.  It's also something which may have direct implications to the rest of us shooting R9s at one time or another...so you see we have an invested interest.

To end off here I would again encourage you to lube the R9 as per Rohrbaugh factory instructions.  If you shoot the gun any other way...like too dry or dirty - it is all but insuring you will have problems.  Lube it properly - then dig for the root of your problems.  That's the best free advice I have - lol...!  I wish you all the best of luck trying to figure this all out.  Thanks for sharing in the first place...TW<<

Offline Incursion

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Re: R9s price increase and grip material change
« Reply #21 on: October 12, 2004, 08:59:05 PM »
Well all I know is that I couldn't get through a single mag for 6-7 mags with their lube.  I shot it straight from the factory.

If worse comes to worse, I'll borrow a digital camcorder, and you guys can watch me shoot it.  I'll divx the damn thing so it'll be in high quality.

Offline R9SCarry

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Re: R9s price increase and grip material change
« Reply #22 on: October 12, 2004, 09:03:29 PM »
Had a brief shoot late this afternoon again, with my #2 pup .... a few more mags of cheap FMJ Igman went thru perfectly ... and that was with integral and intact factory lube.  I will now clean it after the approx 40 rounds so far put thru.

Buddy with me tried a coupla mags full ... first time he'd shot anything that small .. no probs.
Chris - R9S
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Offline Incursion

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Re: R9s price increase and grip material change
« Reply #23 on: October 12, 2004, 09:05:54 PM »
Man it's frustrating when everyone else's R9s works perfectly.  I have to get this thing working in my hands.

Offline TW

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R9s price increase and grip material change
« Reply #24 on: October 12, 2004, 10:24:23 PM »
>>Incursion, I can relate with your frustration, believe me.  I'm usually the odd guy out who can't get mechanical things to work.  But then I have this bad habit of not reading directions until I have something totally disassembled all over the floor...

Where do you live...?  Perhaps you will be close enough to one of us so that you could plan a shooting session/R9 workshop at a local gun club...?...!  What do you think???

Hmmmmmm.  Better yet - how about we grovel some to Eric about setting up an R9 Clinic somewhere...  I would be happy to chip in on it to make it worth his effort.  Besides...Eric needs to get out of the shop to enjoy the autumn air...ya know...?  What better excuse than a customer education excercise...?  Just a thought.  Hang in there, Incursion...TW<<

Offline Incursion

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Re: R9s price increase and grip material change
« Reply #25 on: October 12, 2004, 10:40:49 PM »
I'm in Houston, TX.

Offline Jax

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Re: R9s price increase and grip material change
« Reply #26 on: October 13, 2004, 02:17:06 AM »
Yo, Incursion...

Didn't you used to come up to Austin to go to school?

I live in Austin and have an R-9.  I'd be happy to go to the range w/ you and, if req'd, loan it to you for a couple of weeks so you could try it out side by side w/ yours.

If we could meet up somewhere, that'd work as well.

The only malf's I've seen w/ mine in several hundred rounds were directly attributable to user error when I have introduced new shooters to it - not gripping it tightly enough.  I, personally, have never had a malf w/ it.

Let me know,

Jax

Offline RJ HEDLEY

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Re: R9s price increase and grip material change
« Reply #27 on: October 13, 2004, 10:45:03 AM »
Just maybe...... :)
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Offline R9SCarry

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Re: R9s price increase and grip material change
« Reply #28 on: October 13, 2004, 11:25:01 AM »
Welcome Jax :) ...... indeed, I have been thinking for some time of the benefits possible thru another R9 owner getting in on this - comparison etc.  Could be way to go.
Chris - R9S
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Offline Incursion

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Re: R9s price increase and grip material change
« Reply #29 on: October 13, 2004, 12:20:38 PM »
Yea, I went to UT.  I'll probably go up to Austin next weekend.  I have a friend in Liberty Hill, TX (Coronelli on Park Cities Tactical, Usual Suspects Network) with his own range.

My email address is incursion2@yahoo.com