The Rohrbaugh Forum
Miscellaneous => The Water Cooler -- General Discussions => Topic started by: yankee2500 on October 26, 2010, 08:04:59 AM
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I received this from GunsAmerica and thought anyone using it may want to read this.
Hi Everyone,
This message is about the 3rd party payment service for guns known as Gpal, or GunPal before that. Down this message a bit you will see a link to file a complaint if you feel you have been wronged. The image on the right here is the form. If you have not been involved with making or taking payments through Gpal this message does not affect you.
This is solely a public service announcement. Gpal/GunPal has never been an authorized payment system on GunsAmerica. There is some confusion about this because some of the other sites where you can buy and sell guns did endorse and even integrate Gpal/GunPal into their websites. We did not, even though we were offered a "deal" out of the profits like everyone else, and it was for a reason that we didn't. A Paypal-like system for guns with similar fees in the 3% range is impossible for the gun industry.
Several years ago GunsAmerica tried to create our own third party payment system for guns. We even own the domain guncash.com. Unfortunately we discovered quickly that, when it came to "underwriting" such a system, our industry is too small. There is not enough money in it to risk the tens of millions of dollars to underwrite and FDIC insure all of the money coming and going.
It took us years to even find a Merchant Services company (merchant credit card accounts for gun dealers) that would deal with guns being sold online. To our knowledge, our Live Payments system through Electronic Transfer Inc. is the only merchant account approved specifically for guns online (FFL dealers only) through a secure internet gateway that is also approved for guns online (authorize.net is not). If a sales rep or anyone else tells you different, or if you are offered another 3rd party payment system for guns, question it. It is not necessarily that the banks are anti-gun. They are anti-risk, and we know what it is like to make your way up the banking chain explaining the very small risks involving guns and credit, even online. The chargeback rate for guns is far below the national average for other products.
Now, back to Gpal. Because even though we never endorsed Gpal or integrated it into GunsAmerica, a number of our sellers did take payments through them. Many have emailed us that they are unable to withdraw their funds now and have asked for help. We also have a lot of buyers who buy guns on all the online sites who are caught in the middle and have emailed us to see if we know anything.
I spoke to Carl Chapman from the Marin County District Attorney's Office, who is in charge of managing this case. The Gpal case is an open investigation, not a case that has been labeled criminal at this time. There are several agencies involved and as far as I can tell, nobody should assume right now that Gpal did anything illegal. Everyone who made and accepted payments with them trusted them to be a successful enterprise. This could just be a speed bump from which they have yet to recover. Even PayPal had speed bumps, and they too were accused of fraudulent activity at the time.
We are sending this email to let you know how to file a complaint. We have nothing to do with Gpal and have no knowledge of their relationships with other online gun buying and selling sites and/or internet discussion forums. We elected to not do business with Gpal from the start because of exactly these concerns.
Mr. Chapman has asked that all complaints go through The Internet Crime Complaint Center. The URL for the form is at http://www.ic3.gov/complaint/.
Don't worry, this is not a black hole of government inaction. All the complaints for this case go right to Mr. Chapman in spreadsheet form that is easier for him to deal with than individual complaints on the telephone. There are SEVEN TO TEN SCREENS to click through of questions to get to the final form (which you see hanging on the right here). Hang in there! The questions don't really fit this case, but answer them as close to what makes sense. I clicked through a few times with different answers and it didn't seem to matter how you answered them. They all lead to the final form.
Hopefully the situation with Gpal will resolve itself and everyone will get their money back. Many small gun dealers, accepting the endorsements of trusted entities (GunsAmerica not being one of them), trusted Gpal and took payments through them. They need those funds! We pray that Gpal does make it through and that no fraudulent activity is found so that everyone gets their money. The gun industry is a very small place and we are attacked from the outside by people and organizations every day. It is better for all of us to assume the best in each other, not the worst, and let the problems work themselves out if at all possible.
Whether you choose to use Gpal now or in the future is up to you. We do not authorize any third party payment system. It is still a free country to some extent. And we most likely will not be updating our information about Gpal in the future as we have nothing to do with them. The only public support forum we know of was recently closed by those hosting them. Regular customer support at Gpal is support@gpal.net and the customer support phone number is 1-800-813-4725.
Thanks as always for being a part of GunsAmerica. -ph@ga
This is an official GunsAmerica Email Notification.
John
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Thanks for that info, John!
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I started to open an account several months ago. After I did some checking on the forums I'm on I saw a few complaints and decided to wait. Glad I did.
John
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I had used GPal a couple of time with no problems..
Then read of other's issues,and have not used since..
There needs to be another option than Paypal for online payments..
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Brenden,
I agree, but the guy who started Gpal spent four years setting it up and it still doesn't work. I'm sure it is a very difficult system to get off the ground and be successful with.
John
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I just set up a G-pal account, and a merchant account as well. So far I have had not problems. I even run credit cards with no problems. Payment to my bank is not as fast a merchannt services, but the fees are quite a bit less.
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I wish you continued luck with it, it sucks when your money get stuck in a black hole. :'(
John
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WOW! Maybe it's good I didn't know about this system! :)
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I hope they can get everything straightened out as it would be nice to have an option to paypal.
John
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I do too. Another option is always good!
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Here is some updated info on this issue and it doesn't look good for GPal.
Here are 3 posts from The High Road
(1) GunPal/GPal (Whatever they want to call themselves)
I am not very happy with this company! I had utilized their services when I created ExtremeGunCare. I thought it was a great idea to do business with a company that was geared towards Gun Owners. But when they changed their name, things went down hill.
I stop using GPal services in Aug. 2010 for not receiving funds. I still have not received funds from customer orders. GPal said they were having bank issues so I tried to withdraw the funds again with no deposit. Surprise Surprise!
In my book, don't use GPal! They have a forum and almost all my posts had been deleted. They delete any negative response on their forum. I was giving accurate information on various things from installing the GunPal Module on Zen Cart to troubleshooting. I have lost complete trust with GPal!
Good Shooting,
Jason Lumetta
ExtremeGunCare
(2) from the cal guns thread
We had our arbitration final hearing today, we have been awarded the full amount + damages against GPal. Our arbitrator has also referred us to the FBI and has given some great advice for the next steps to shut this disaster down. We may never see the money, but we will get this individual behind bars where he belongs.
(3) State of arkansas is about to officially barr them from doing business there as part of ongoing investigation/prosecution
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John, thanks for the info; definitely won't be doing business with GPal even if they stayed in business.
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I have never bought a gun or parts online or through an auction, how does one actually do this type of transaction safely?
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I have never bought a gun or parts online or through an auction, how does one actually do this type of transaction safely?
It's not difficult. First you must find a dealer in your area for the transfer. Find a dealer with the gun. Send him a certifed check or money order for the firearm. Have him ship it to your dealer. When it comes in, do the transfer to you. There is usually a small fee.
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The dealer you find will need to Fax, email or snail mail a copy of his FFL to the seller before they will ship so they know they are shipping to an FFL.
I always like to use a USPS money orders for payment, if there were any shady dealings you have Mail Fraud and the Postal Inspectors to look into it. If the money order is lost after 45 days they will replace it if it is not cashed.
If the purchase is from an individual you will need to make sure you receiving FFL will accept a gun from a non FFL.
It's no big deal I have purchased and twenty plus guns on the forums, I just got my 340PD from an individual on one of the forums.
John
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I from time to time do a google search of myself and I found my post from another forum on here to be used as an example. While I do not mind, because I feel strong about my opinion I had made. It would of been nice to have been let known. That being said. GPAL STILL SUCKS IN MY BOOK! Now I go to my account and it is shown zero balance. I have lost a few hundred dollars to these bastards. Ever since they changed their name from GunPal to GPal things went soon south. And for those who say they are getting paid since Oct, Nov, Dec....I still would not trust them for screwing hundreds of people like myself from June, July, August! I made a complaint with the BBB but felt like I was just being brushed off. I still have not received payment!
Good Shooting,
Jason Lumetta
ExtremeGunCare
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Jason,
Welcome to the best gun forum on the net.
Sorry I didn't ask permission to use the post but being it came from an open forum (The High Road) it didn't seem necessary.
I was only trying to make the members on here aware of the issues with Gpal many are not on multiple forums.
John
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Not a problem. I admit we need to get the word out about GPal and their scandalous behaviors. I do not want others to fall into the same trap I did.
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With pals like this, who needs enemies?
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Jason. Welcome to the Forum. Looks like you have some excellent products.