The Rohrbaugh Forum
Rohrbaugh Products and Accessories => Rohrbaugh R9 (all variations) => Topic started by: CAB on October 13, 2005, 08:03:08 PM
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On my second trip to the range, after shooting 70 rounds flawlessly on the first trip, I decided to practice shooting my R9s loaded 6+1. Out of ten magazines, on two or three occasions the slide cycling after the first shot caused the magazine to pop-out slightly, which caused a failure to feed, and necessitated using my left hand shove it back in. I was very careful after the first instance to make sure the magazine was very well secured before shooting. I would be interested to know whether any one has experienced this problem. It did not exhibit this problem when shooting 5+1. I theorize that the magizine spring is bottomed-out when loaded with 6, so the rap the slide causes going backward over the full magazine is enough to knock the mag loose, whereas the spring is able to absorb some of the blow when only five rounds are present. Any insights into this problem would be appreciated. I would like to carry it 6+1, but this experience has blown my confidence. Thank you.
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CAB,
Welcome to the forum. Glad you are here.
I have not heard reports of the magazine coming out. Some of the other members will know, however, and may be able to offer suggestions.
Bill
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I've not had your problem but have had other magazine-related problems, including the heel plate sliding both forwards and backwards. Have you checked the slot in the heel that the catch anchors into? Maybe the position or size of the cutout is out of spec. Or call Eric; he may have your answer.
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CAB - welcome :)
This is pretty rare I'd say - and I shoot 6+1 for practice. The mag release is IIRC the ''other end'' of the mainspring and should be well able to retain the mag. Eyeball from side to make sure the release has an undercut profile - which it almost certainly should have.
Check mag base plate too - just to make sure it has not drifted fwd a bit. I think many issues folks have had with R9's come back to something magazine oriented.
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I suspect I can solve your problem very easily.
I had this exact problem (EVERY time I loaded the gun), and I wound up sending it back to Rohrbaugh in August. They were mystified and could not duplicate the problem (with Karl and Eddie shooting it all sorts of ways), but modified my mag release for me. When I got the gun back, it did the same thing for me.
I had a friend try it, and it did NOT jump out for him. His son reminded me that I used to have functioning problems with a Kel-Tec P-32 that I used to own, and a light bulb went on in my head.
I have odd-shaped hands. My palms are very thin, but the heel of my hand and the base of my thumb are meaty. When I shoot (in a Weaver stance, with front-to-back pressure on the gun's gripframe), my hands tend to create a "cup" on the side of a gun's stocks.
Not a problem with most guns, but with thin-framed guns like the Rohrbaugh and the baby Kel-Tecs, it's an issue. (My friend's regular-shaped hands, and presumably those of the folks at Rohrbaugh, did not create this cupping, and the problems did not occur for them.) What I had done to get the K-T to work was I had inserted the thumb of my off-hand vertically alongside the handgun's gripframe, and I had grasped the thumb within the grip of my primary hand (thus creating a fatter profile for me to hang on to). This completely solved my problems with the P-32.
I tried the same thing with the R9s, and ALL MY PROBLEMS WERE SOLVED! ;D I was happy as a hog in slop! I've since fired about three hundred rounds without any problems whatsoever. (I promptly emailed Karl Rohrbaugh an explanation of what happened, so it may be he's passed my experience on to you already.)
(I would point out that a person shooting with an Isoceles stance and it's side-to-side pressure on the gripframe, is unlikely to encounter this sort of malfunction.)
What I can't tell you is how the gun's frame moving slightly within my palm (bear in mind that I was NOT limp-wristing the gun, it's just that the grip I was using was not providing adequate support to the thin, slick stocks) caused the gun to pop its mag. It apparently did, though, because the issue completely stopped when I fixed my grip on the gun.
I hope this helps. Please feel free to PM me if you have any Qs, and please let us know if this solution works for you.
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Thanks to all who replied, especially Erich for his detailed response. I think he may have the answer. My hands likewise are thin in the middle. After the first instance, I was playing around with my grip as I thought maybe my small finger was hitting it during recoil. Since I was changing my grip, that could explain why it did not happen all the time. Looks like what is needed is another trip to the range, and this time I will do more controlled experiments with the grip. Also, I will compare the two magainze and see if it happens with both or just one. The short term solution is to carry 5+1 instead of 6, as it never happened with 5. Unfortunately, I will not have time to go to the range for awhile, but I will provide a follow-up post when I find some answers. Otherwise, a great gun and a great forum.
Brian
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Brian, I feel your pain, and sincerely hope the fix works for you.
I initially also thought that my pinkie was hitting the mag release (a subsequent range trip showed that it wasn't - I fired with my pinkie extended out in front of the gun, parallel to the barrel and it still happened). Then I thought it was a mechanical problem with the mag release spring being too weak. Eddie at Rohrbaugh cleared that up: the mag release is attached to the mainspring, and if there was a problem with it, the gun wouldn't fire.
Try my trick of wedging your off-hand thumb alongside the pistol's stocks within your primary hand's grip. Hopefully the additional friction and pressure will keep the pistol properly situated in your hand and you'll never have this problem again.
By the way, if this does solve the problem, you might email Rohrbaugh to let them know that you, too, experienced this problem - I'm sure they're going to get more calls from folks like us as they sell more pistols, and it would be good for them to hear about the problem/solution occurring for folks than me . . . if it occurs enough, perhaps they'll mention it in their literature so that new owners know what to do.
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CAB:
I haven't experienced the problem you describe, but Erich presents a compelling analysis. All I can add here is to welcome you to the Forum.
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Thanks again Erich, I will let you and the forum know how my next trip to the range goes.
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Thanks for the reply - I was just wondering whether you'd had a chance to hit the range yet. I'll await your report! :)
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Cab, welcome to the forum, I think you will soon be enjoying your shooting time with the pup soon. Just listen to Erick, he is the captain of the loose mags ship. He has spend a lot of time and effort on this mag problem.
Tom
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I should have known to write a while ago that I had this exact
same problem, and a wise old man at the range came back to the
lane and watched me. He noticed my thumb was actually in the way of the slide, causing the slide to slow, and therefore not eject my round or chamber the next. The same minor modification of my grip as Erich spoke of made my gun completely reliable.
That and some good lubricants...
Steve
BTW-I had a horror site the other day. I pulled the R9S out of my pocket and I noticed something sticking out of the barrel. Caramba!
Upon close inspection, I found it to be dryer lint from my jeans which formed into a, um, Rohrbaugh barrel shape;^) I pulled it out and laughed and thought, sheesh, this might well have caused a misfire. I'm no expert on guns, and I don't play one on TV. I guess we should all inspect our pockets before we place a gun in it. Can I get an Amen?
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Hey Calvin, are you now kniting a sweater out of the bbl lint?
Tom
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Steve - an amen from here on that ''lint ball'' :D
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Hey Calvin, are you now kniting a sweater out of the bbl lint?
Tom
Actually, Tom, I'm using it and other stuff I've collected over the years as a hairpiece. It looks yummy...
Cal
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Calvin, It also will keep your head warmer!!!
Tom
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Steve (Calvin)
What custom pocket knife are you carrying now days in your other lint filled pocket. I'm still carrying a Bose.
Dave
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Steve (Calvin)
What custom pocket knife are you carrying now days in your other lint filled pocket. I'm still carrying a Bose.
Dave
Today I am carrying a Bailey Bradshaw pocket Wharncliffe stag folder. Made of forged 52100 and has stag handles and pinched front bolsters.
Sweet! Also have a Chris Reeve Mnandi (pronounced "Mnandi";^), which may be the finest semi-custom knives made today. It has incredible cocobolo handles. Then on my belt is a Buck/Tom Mayo folder in Titanium and S30V (only the good stuff!). In my tote bag, I have a Leatherman Micra, a Benchmade H20 fixed blade, a steriing silver Swiss Army Knife. In my car, I have a Benchmade/Osborne/NRA Fixed Blade (a mighty knife and mighty fine, too!) and a Kershaw DWO folder. Also in the trunk is a P.J. Tomes Big Honkin Machete with black walnut scales.
I hope I never get pulled over. The newspaper story would look bad...
Steve
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Steve, with all that stuff, which do you pull out first?
And what would you say to the cop when he asks do you have weapons on you?
Tom
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Steve, with all that stuff, which do you pull out first?
And what would you say to the cop when he asks do you have weapons on you?
Tom
I have to carefully consider what the task at hand is and choose wisely.
That's why I carry so many. And I AM an Officially Licensed Obsessive/Compulsive.
As to what I'd say to a cop, I'd quote Cleavon Little in "Blazing Saddles"
with "Pardon me while I whip this out...";^)
Ah, it's not easy being inside this head;^)
Hayword N. Edgewise
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KEENO Here.... New Member of the forum and proud owner of #492 R9!
The reason I went in search of a Rohrbaugh Forum & help is that I'm having similar issues with my magazine releasing when fired.
The Gun was just returned to me after Eric Rohrbaugh went through it tuning & replacing the Magazine Realease.
Eric's notes on the gun read:
- Disassembled Firearm
- Inspected (Gun seems to have worn in "Nicely" - Well Lubed)
- Clean (shipped dirty as requested)
- Tuned Hammer Strut
- New Mag Release
- New OUter Recoil Spring
- Lube & Re-Assemble
Test fired w/ no malfunctions
Upon return to me and a trip to the outdoor range with 100 rounds of WInchester "White Box" in hand.... No magazine release related issues for 75 rounds. Then, 1 in 6 from the next mag. On to 2 in 6. All in all, I had 10 seperate Mag release in the last 25 rounds of 100 total.
Could it be a function of the lube becoming thin? Note: This range session took place with factory lubing from Eric's Tuning.
Open for input....
Thanks for the tips on rivised grip Erich!
Tim "KEENO" Keen
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KEENO Again!
I forgot to mention that I was shooting my R9 single-handed w/ my pinky extended forward to insure it wasn't contacting the Magazine Release. I also have fairly large hands with a 'meaty' thumb pad. (Similar to Erich's description)
I'll give Erich's Grip technique a try once I purchase more ammo.
Any other advice????
KEENO
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Hi KEENO,
Welcome to the forum. Glad you are here.
I have had good fortune with my R9S, including no magazine release problems.
I would be inclined to immediately contact the factory, again.
Maybe give it a sharp slap when inserting the magazine, but I'm sure you've considered that. Perhaps let someone else shoot the pistol to see what happens with a different hand.
Some of the guys here will most likely have some thoughts.
Bill
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Tim - big welcome to the forum :)
I too have never had a release issue - on either of my early guns. I too have large hands and somewhere i posted pics of how I take up my grip. I can always post them again if anyone wants and in fact keep meaning to add them to FAQ site - oh my - so much to do. Must get to that soon.
The mag release catch is tensioned of course by the ''other end'' of mainspring - hammer spring if you will - which is plenty strong. Plus the ''undercut'' aspect of the release catch should in theory give a good hold always.
Know what? In all these cases of problems - oh my - how I have wish I could see said gun and watch the problems - tho I am no expert per se at all, and not trying to claim such but - always so much better to actually see and experience probs and so get a better idea of why they might be happening.
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KEENO,
Welcome...
I do not have any advice as to your problem-I am sorry..
My "early" nor my "later" pup shows any such problem..
I am sure that the Rohrbaughs will take care of your problem..
Trying to think thru how this can happen..
Once again,Welcome..
Brenden
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Right on, Keeno! Glad you could join us.
My R9s went back to the range today for it's 550th round. It wasn't performing so hot until I replaced the second recoil spring, at which time it started running like a watch.
Easy clean-up on this finely polished gem! :)
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Thanks for the Welcome & Encouragement Gang!
I called Rohrbaugh today and had the pleasure of speaking to the incredibly knowledgeable & Helpful Maria once again. She said, I should be expecting a call from Karl tomorrow on the Magazine Release concern.
Customer Service..... Off the Scale!
In the meantime, I plan to clean my R9 and shoot some more Winchester "Whitebox" thru it, attempting to continue to duplicate the issue. Experimenting with the recommended "Thumb Grip"! ;)
Thanks to all....
Tim "KEENO" Keen
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I had this same problem with the magazine releasing when fully loaded and wrote about it in this forum several months ago. Karl felt it was a grip problem (pinky engaging magazine catch), but I'm not 100% sure.
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Sorry, Keeno, that you have had the same problem (see my post at the top of this thread), but please keep us posted on your progress. I have not been back to the range since receiving erich's excellent advice, but will let ya'll know how it goes. Does your problem show any sensitivity as to 5+1 versus 6+1? My problem only occurred on the first round at 6+1- after firing the first round, the slide knocked the magizine out. Good luck,
Brian
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Hi CAB,
I was also getting an occasional magazine release while firing my R-9. I have always fired with a fully loaded 6 round magazine. I sent my pup back to Rohrbaugh for repair of this problem and replacement of a cracked slide. Besides replacing the slide Karl R replaced the magazine catch. After firing about 40 rounds with the repaired R-9 I have not had the magazine release problem again (yet). So far so good…. CAB I hope you get all your pup’s problems worked out.
Ed
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Ed,
Please let us know, after a few more rounds, if the replacement of the magazine catch solved your problem. Thanks,
Brian
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KEENO Here again....
I finally got to shoot my freshly cleaned & Lubed (Super Lube) R9 again on Sunday. I shot approx 40 rounds of Winchester Whitebox thru it with no Magazine Release related issues. Good News.... But, nothing scientific!
This might seem far fetched, but I believe it might be a function of the lube thinning with repetative shots. I experienced this issue after 75 flawless rounds had been fired thru the gun (without cleaning/relube). It was the next 25 rounds where all of the Mag Releases occured.
I purchased my gun in May of 2005 and after shooting it in the first session it was cleaned and relubed with another product besides Super Lube. (No Super Lube literature was included with my early serial number gun... Karl, later advised me of Super Lube in a phone call) It was after shooting my R9 during the 2nd sesson (non-Super Lube) that I began to experience the Magazine Release issue.
CAB: Your Mag Release Issues also came after you had cycled 70 rounds thru your Gun? Coincidence?? (No 6+1 issues with mine.... It doesn't seem to make a difference for me)
The other variable is that I shot my R9 using Erich's Grip Technique vs. single handed, as I practice sometimes. Maybe, the new grip technique has solved the problem!?! I guess I need to go back and shoot some single handed to be certain.
In the end, I believe I'm just going to convince myself I'm satisfied and carry the little gem! I'm beginning to become concerned about the noted wear from the SS Barrel as it "beds into" the Aluminum frame (above the takedown pin hole). It's becoming more pronounced after putting 350+ rounds thru the "Pup" (as you Boys call Her!) :o
Maybe, I'll call Karl and ask his opinion of my Lube Thinning concept?
Any opinions or insight?
Thanks for all of the Help!
KEENO
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KEENO - I have said elsewhere and stick by it - the ''wear'' of frame under barrel is not IMO an issue to worry about as I see it myself as self-limiting. This is not a stress area at all and is IMO due to ''bedding in'' effects due to tight tolerancing in design and manufacture.
''Lube thinning'' I cannot (as yet) see as an issue connecting to mag release issues. I accept with use, friction even tho marginal and gun heat - some grease viscocity loss will occur - but not sure I see a relationship between that and the release itself.
Most obvious factor I notice with use beyond a coupla mags or three - is crud build-up and even then I am not sure I can link that to mag release issues. I will give this more thought. BTW 6+1 has not thus far on either R9 of mine seemed an issue.
BTW again - IIRC I think, I was the guilty party that labelled this gun a ''pup'' way back - just seemed apt :)
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Keeno,
Yes, it was on my second trip to the range that I experienced the amg releast problem, after about 80 rounds the first trip. On the other hand, the first trip I never tired 6+1, so I need to clean it and go back to the range to experiment. It might take a few weeks for me to get6 there, but I will report the results. Thanks,
Brian