Author Topic: Changes that affect bullet stability/keyholing?  (Read 1226 times)

Offline mjt

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Changes that affect bullet stability/keyholing?
« on: March 24, 2008, 10:25:07 PM »

What changes have been implemented since the original design of the R9 (if any) that influence bullet stability and tendency to keyhole?  Thank you.

Offline jcp

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Re: Changes that affect bullet stability/keyholing
« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2008, 03:22:11 PM »
I am wondering the same thing. I have seen where it was mentioned that Rohrbaugh may look into the possibility of design changes that could help bullet stability. I haven't seen anything that says what or if anything was done. Hopefully somebody that knows one way or the other will respond.

Offline mjt

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Re: Changes that affect bullet stability/keyholing
« Reply #2 on: April 03, 2008, 11:01:36 PM »
Frankly, as someone who carries the R9 more than any other firearm, I think this issue is downplayed far too much.  Comments such as "it'll still hurt an awful lot up close" and "keyholing rounds cut wider wound channels" and so on divert attention from the extensive effort and science that has gone into refining various 9mm rounds to penetrate and expand in amounts that will produce the best effects.  Keyholing (or even unstable rounds) will penetrate less as far as I know.  All of the arguments about lesser rounds than 9mm that do not penetrate very well apply here: Questions such as "what if the round travels through a forearm, through a large torso standing sideways, through fat, through this or that...the round may do shallow damage but will not go deep enough to reach vital organs or to do cns damage" seem to apply to an unstable bullet that will not "drill in" and expand as the round is designed to do by manufacturers.  

If I am wrong and research/tests have shown that these unstable rounds will indeed go deep enough, please let me know!  I hope to be wrong (I am far more a kool aid drinker than a troll!).  Its just that logically, given the very extensive R&D and testing efforts by ammunition manufacturers and the debate about penetration vs. expansion, etc. that is discussed extensively on boards like this one, it is hard to ignore the possible detrimental effects of unstable bullets.  Does this not detract significantly from the effects of the 9mm round?  What is the effect?  Can we do gelatin tests to dispel this or, hopefully not, confirm the detrimental effects of an unstable round?  Can we quantify the effects?

At the range, on my targets, there is usually evidence of 40% and more  having instability using recommended ammo such as Gold Dot.  However, the accuracy is excellent: The rounds arrive at POA very well.  The gun fires reliably when clean and lubed. Otherwise, I would not carry it.

BTW, I have an early manufacture R9S on my hip right now.   :)

Offline riffraff

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Re: Changes that affect bullet stability/keyholing
« Reply #3 on: April 04, 2008, 12:40:37 PM »

I don't have any idea about any minor changes but I have 2 R9's in the 1500's range and they have not showed any evidence of keyholeing with any bullet exceot the Aquilla 65gr.  With the Aguilla, both mine keyholed every time at 12yds.  Mine do not keyhole with the 147's or any other design.  Believe me I have fired probably 30 different bullet brands/styles in my guns.

Mike
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