The Rohrbaugh Forum

Miscellaneous => The Water Cooler -- General Discussions => Topic started by: sslater on March 03, 2009, 11:41:06 PM

Title: Ammo Shortage...
Post by: sslater on March 03, 2009, 11:41:06 PM: I'm wondering if anyone else is having as much trouble as I am finding range-type ammo for sale?
Most of the mail order places even the big places like Cabela's, Midway, & Cheaper Than Dirt list 9mm, .40S&W, and .38 Special on back order.

I was at the range the other day and noticed they have ammo in stock but the prices are ridiculous - like $10 / 100pak higher than the last ammo I bought a Wal-Mart. (The two local Wal-Mart stores are out of stock; the clerk claims that they are getting only a fraction of what they order. And, what they do get in, goes out as soon as it hits the shelves.

Gotta wonder if serious shooters are hoarding ammo in case the new Presidential Administration does something nasty.

Steve
Title: Re: Ammo Shortage...
Post by: ccoorreeyy on March 04, 2009, 12:29:11 AM: There is LOTS of hoarding going on. I think it will blow over at sometime and ammo prices will come back down because manufactors will at somepoint be overstocked from increased production to try to keep up with todays command. I may be totally wrong but I hope I am not.
Corey
Title: Re: Ammo Shortage...
Post by: yankee2500 on March 04, 2009, 01:55:10 AM: Same story at the Walley Worlds here in NC, I just returned from FL and the Walley Worlds I visited there don't even get it in on a regular basis and I stopped at three while I was there. My local shop has a pretty good supply on hand, at leat for now. John
Title: Re: Ammo Shortage...
Post by: theirishguard on March 04, 2009, 12:29:45 PM: years ago Clinton closed down some of the ammo plants, that has put hardship on the ones still here. when you find ammo buy it now. Tom
Title: Re: Ammo Shortage...
Post by: tracker on March 04, 2009, 05:19:22 PM: Academy sporting goods normally carries a well-stocked ammo
shelf but not now. I was given a two box limit on WWB per store
visit. That policy generated a few more store trips which amounted
to multiple cash register receipts.
Title: Re: Ammo Shortage...
Post by: Richard S on March 04, 2009, 06:34:18 PM: On the assumption that the situation is not going to get any better any time soon, I've begun stocking up on ammunition for each firearm I own. I hope I'm wrong, but I suspect that commercial supplies of 9mm Parabellum ammunition may become increasingly scarce in the near term due to military procurement demands.
Title: Re: Ammo Shortage...
Post by: tracker on March 04, 2009, 06:41:34 PM: That sounds like a very wise plan and correct assumption.
If anyone thinks ammo is expensive now, just wait.
Title: Re: Ammo Shortage...
Post by: theirishguard on March 04, 2009, 07:08:10 PM: we are not in the good old days of buying some ammo when we find it cheap. the ammo market has changed, if you find what you want buy it all. You may not get any more at any price. Tom
Title: Re: Ammo Shortage...
Post by: tracker on March 04, 2009, 07:47:52 PM: To affirm what Tom says, the WWB 9 mm. was readily available
in Houston 1 year ago at $5.49 a box; now, it is rarely on the shelf
at $12.49.
Ammo has been a classic case of supply and demand; so far, at least,
it is price inelastic.
Title: Re: Ammo Shortage...
Post by: Maineiac on March 17, 2009, 02:12:47 PM: Think this will have anything to do with ammo prices?

http://www.theshootist.net:80/2009/03/dod-ends-sale-of-expended-military.html

This might have something to do with above

http://www.businessweek.com:80/magazine/content/07_24/b4038041.htm?campaign_id
Title: Re: Ammo Shortage...
Post by: Richard S on March 19, 2009, 09:13:37 PM: Purely as an anecdotal observation, I stopped by my FFL's shop today to continue the slow but steady ammunition procurement project I have been pursuing for the past few months. I walked out having spent $70 for a purchase which, according to a comparison of price labels on the boxes, cost about half that much as recently as last summer. (Guard your ammuinition, my friends, and store it well. ::) )

[size=10][Edited to correct typo.][/size]
Title: Re: Ammo Shortage...
Post by: tracker on March 19, 2009, 11:23:34 PM: Richard,
I think your anecdotal observation is an irrefutable fact of
life for now. There are many more active ammo shoppers
than in the past and they are paying very high prices quite
willingly.
Title: Re: Ammo Shortage...
Post by: theirishguard on March 20, 2009, 04:32:37 PM: guys, sad but true. :( :'( Tom
Title: Re: Ammo Shortage...
Post by: DTM_39 on March 20, 2009, 07:22:04 PM: +1 on the stockpile
Title: Re: Ammo Shortage...
Post by: sdlsaginaw on April 18, 2009, 07:37:28 PM: This is getting really bad.

I know better than to bother with the local outdoor shops at this point, shelves are terminally bare.

The local gun store had a decent supply (for a price) last month. I stopped there today to pick up a box or two of WWB and they are ONLY selling ammo with gun purchase!

A friend just picked up an LCP at the local indoor range yesterday. Normally they let you use the range when you buy a new gun from them, but they had no FMJ ammo for it. He had to take it home unfired.
Title: Re: Ammo Shortage...
Post by: ACP on April 18, 2009, 08:14:48 PM: Ditto where I live. I have not run out of places to look but I have not faced this issue to date. I have multiple boxes of ammo in multiple calibers. However, an attempt to get 9MM today (high test as recommended for R9) proved futile.

I thought this was other people's problem until today.
Title: Re: Ammo Shortage...
Post by: M380 on April 22, 2009, 11:40:51 AM: President bomma-mama said last year, that he wanted to make ammunition hard to get as a way of controlling gun related violence. It looks like he is well on his way ::)

BTW I didn't vote for him :P
Title: Re: Ammo Shortage...
Post by: ACP on April 22, 2009, 02:17:02 PM: I just got back from a 60 mile excursion and found shortage of 9MM and .380. I did manage to find 50 rounds of Hornady TAP HP 147 gr.

As to political comment, I am not a conspiracy theorist but it is tempting to believe that shortage of ammo is induced by government. They have their hands in everything else, right?

People are also hording ammo; that much is clear. I never thought I would see they day when I would pay $1.00 per round of 9MM.
Title: Re: Ammo Shortage...
Post by: tracker on April 22, 2009, 11:16:54 PM: Me either, but I am happy to pay it for premium ammo because it
is so difficult to find in the normal outlets.
Title: Re: Ammo Shortage...
Post by: kjtrains on April 23, 2009, 10:34:06 AM: Cabela's has 9mm 115gr. Winchester Silvertips for $37.99 but on back order. They say it will take 3-4 weeks to ship. I put in an order so we'll see. :( :(
Title: Re: Ammo Shortage...
Post by: kjtrains on April 23, 2009, 10:50:48 AM: Sportman's Guide has Winchester 9mm Silvertips on backorder, availability June 29th, 09 for $36.47, club price $34.65. It's always good to put in for the backorder as the date finally arrives. However, they do, sometimes, push the backorder on out. Cabela's does that too!

I had some Hornady 44 Mags 300 gr. on order since Dec 24th, 08, from Sportsman's Guide and got them 2 weeks ago. They do arrive. :) :)
Title: Re: Ammo Shortage...
Post by: tracker on April 23, 2009, 10:48:21 PM: I can affirm the comment about Cabela's; they are very good and
courteous--no charge until shipment.
Title: Re: Ammo Shortage...
Post by: PakWaan on April 24, 2009, 11:00:44 AM: Quote
Cabela's has 9mm 115gr. Winchester Silvertips for $37.99 but on back order. They say it will take 3-4 weeks to ship. I put in an order so we'll see. :( :(

Take that with a grain of salt - I placed the same order 2 months ago with a 3-4 weeks "expected" shipping date, and every 2 weeks since then they have sent me an email with a new expected ship date that is 30 days later.....
Title: Re: Ammo Shortage...
Post by: tracker on April 24, 2009, 12:27:52 PM: Silvertips may be the difficult one in the supply chain; I had a very
positive experience with another premium 9 mm. order from
Cabela's.
Title: Re: Ammo Shortage...
Post by: DTM_39 on April 24, 2009, 07:18:39 PM: Today I spoke to a gentleman in charge of ammo production at Remington. He said they are running full bore. Production is up 80% over last year and they are sold out for the rest of the year already. Thank You Mr Nobama
Title: Re: Ammo Shortage...
Post by: sslater on April 24, 2009, 08:40:15 PM: If Remington's production is way up, I'm assuming the other manufacturers are cranking the stuff out as well. Makes you wonder who's getting all that ammo.

Last time I spoke to the manager of the Sporting Goods Department at my local Wally-World, he said they're getting only a fraction of what they are ordering.

I'm even having trouble getting hand loading components. Everything's on backorder.

How many zillion rounds do the hoarders need before they feel comfortable? ???
Title: Re: Ammo Shortage...
Post by: ACP on April 24, 2009, 08:51:06 PM: In a weird way this is good news. While we are all experiencing hardship and extra cost as to ammo, I have heard nothing but mainstream grocery store comments from people, (not known to me), who want to become first time gun owners.

We are not alone in our reasonable fear of "leaders" who continue to grind out laws that are antithetical to human freedom and seek to disarm those who would defend what was hard fought and won.

Fear is now opportunity for government to intrude and I believe it was Lincoln who stated "you cannot fool all of the people all of the time".

The premise of the second amendment is that it is important for a government to fear its people rather than people fear their government and we are witnessing historical attempts to erode this view.
Title: Re: Ammo Shortage...
Post by: sslater on April 24, 2009, 09:09:08 PM: Well said, ACP.
I'm gonna have to steal some of those well-chosen words.

Maybe we should all have "Kumbaya" engraved on our R9's. That should make the pacifists feel more comfortable.... ;D
Title: Re: Ammo Shortage...
Post by: ACP on April 24, 2009, 09:42:47 PM: Hey, I'm here to help and thank you for your compliment.
Title: Re: Ammo Shortage...
Post by: tracker on April 24, 2009, 10:35:52 PM: Can you help us with a solution?
Title: Re: Ammo Shortage...
Post by: ACP on April 25, 2009, 05:20:13 AM: The "solution" is not an easy remedy. The best we can do as individuals is to maintain a positive attitude and be goodwill ambassadors as gunowners. For my part, the total I have charged for giving lessons to newcomers, as a Certified Pistol Instructor, remains $00.00.

Collectively, our best hope is to balance congress in 2010 to offset a single party gone mad with ever increasing attempts to utilize government as a mechanism for "change".

The Constitution is there for a reason, thank you very much, and this mindless "politically correct" nonsense is so old I could scream.
Title: Re: Ammo Shortage...
Post by: Richard S on April 25, 2009, 10:14:35 AM: ACP for Congress! 8)
Title: Re: Ammo Shortage...
Post by: kjtrains on April 25, 2009, 10:31:57 AM: ACP!! You do make some good points. Main thing is to remain calm and do not scream. Stay focused. Numerically speaking, staying focused, is for all of us.

Everything will work out. We have to be smart about how we react and do our part in how we partisipate in these trying times. Hope this doesn't offend anyone. Just my thoughts. :) ;)
Title: Re: Ammo Shortage...
Post by: Richard S on April 25, 2009, 10:41:26 AM: We all learned in History 101 how the United States sold scrap metal to Japan in the 1930s and how a lot of that metal was returned to us at Pearl Harbor on December 7, 1941. With that in mind, take a look at this:

http://www.theshootist.net/2009/03/dod-ends-sale-of-expended-military.html

I think I'm going to start making greater use of snap caps for maintaining proficiency.
Title: Re: Ammo Shortage...
Post by: ACP on April 25, 2009, 01:49:14 PM: Shootist article is chilling and goes to my worst fear. Instead of confronting Second Amendment head on, our leaders are doing end runs designed to diminish access to our ability to go "Bang".

For the record, I have no love for republicans who have squandered Newt Gingrich's Contract With America, for which Clinton takes credit for economic prosperity. They are feckless cowards who have little response to the present regime which is assisted, after all, by mainstream media and Hollywood.

2010 is our year and although present pain is just that, (painful), I have prayed that democrats would overreach and they are doing that bigtime. Isn't it amazing how angry they are? They have both houses of congress and the White House, so why the angst? Because the engine of liberalism is negativity and fear. It is only via constant complaint, portraying themselves as victims and channeling hatred toward their political enemies, that liberals can champion their ideal: "You can fool all of the people some of the time". This, it would appear, is the portion of Lincoln that Obama adores.

Even if the republicans fail to live up to the legacy of Reagan and Gingrich, (presuming victory in 2010), anything is better than what we have now. It is mourning in America and we must find our way through present darkness in quest of a new dawn; one in which Honorably Discharged Veteran gun owners are no longer regarded as terrorists and take their rightful place as Patriots in the light of day.
Title: Re: Ammo Shortage...
Post by: ACP on April 28, 2009, 06:32:43 PM: Yippee! I found 100 rounds of 9MM ammo today. Guy will only sell me two boxes (Golden Sabre) but I will take it.
I am getting to a point that I may actually go out and shoot my R9!
Title: Re: Ammo Shortage...
Post by: tracker on May 10, 2009, 03:02:47 PM: At the risk of sounding the all clear way too soon, I found some
115 gr. gold dot at a local gun store yesterday. They had never
carried Speer in the past so it is somewhat encouraging. They
also had a small supply of .45 ACP and .40 in gold dot; it is
probably all gone today but is at least a faint glimmer of hope.
Title: Re: Ammo Shortage...
Post by: kjtrains on May 10, 2009, 07:11:58 PM: Sounds good! Were they 50rd boxes or 20?
Title: Re: Ammo Shortage...
Post by: ACP on May 10, 2009, 07:38:09 PM: Tracker:

do not disclose your zip code!
Title: Re: Ammo Shortage...
Post by: tracker on May 10, 2009, 08:31:51 PM: They were 20 rounders; that is a good question because we
bought them as 50 rounders in the past. This was a big dealer
with several locations.
Title: Re: Ammo Shortage...
Post by: Richard S on May 14, 2009, 04:49:37 PM: I went into a gun shop I happened to pass this morning on the off chance that the place might have some quality 9mm ammunition in stock. All the store had on the shelves was a bunch of "stuff" made in Russia. Then, as I was turning to leave, I spotted one lonely box of .45 ACP 230-grain Remington Golden Saber BJHP sitting on a shelf behind the cash register.

"I'll take that," I said to the clerk manning the counter. (The cost was $39.00, plus sales tax, for the single box.)

As I was walking out of the shop, I overheard another clerk who had just come from the back room exclaim, "@#$ %^&*! Did you just sell that box of Golden Sabers I had set aside for myself?"

Without so much as a backward glance, I just eased on out the door. :D
Title: Re: Ammo Shortage...
Post by: ACP on May 14, 2009, 04:56:51 PM: Great story Richard. What language is @#!@#+_)*%#?i]

I am guesssing Hungarian. Am I right?
Title: Re: Ammo Shortage...
Post by: sslater on May 14, 2009, 08:35:35 PM: I think "@#!@#+_)*%#?i] " is a military term. Spelled the same in every language, too. ;D

BTW: I was reading an ammo component thread on a handloading site the other day. Same trouble buying reloading supplies as loaded ammo. One writer remarked he had 70,000 primers on backorder from Cabela's, and would wait patiently for the order to be filled in dribs and drabs. No wonder I can't find anything for sale.
Cripes - private individuals aren't supposed to have more than 5,000 primers, and X pounds of powder on hand.
Title: Re: Ammo Shortage...
Post by: Richard S on May 14, 2009, 08:47:04 PM: As a matter of fact, I think it was Hungarian -- the West Danube dialect, if I'm not mistaken. ;)
Title: Re: Ammo Shortage...
Post by: ACP on May 14, 2009, 09:25:59 PM: I was wrong. I thought your inflection was East Danube. Now I know.
Title: Re: Ammo Shortage...
Post by: kjtrains on May 14, 2009, 09:35:33 PM: G-whiz!! I thought it was North Danube. Now we all know. ;D ;D
Title: Re: Ammo Shortage...
Post by: tracker on June 19, 2009, 04:21:44 PM: The ammo situation seemed to improve slightly but now
looks to be tight again. The main consistent ammo supply
seems to be coming from foreign sources, such as "Monarch"
from Serbia.
I had CCI Stinger .22 on back order for 3 months from Cabela's
and they just cancelled the back order. The 9mm. Silvertip back
order was just updated to July 15. That is also 3 months running.
Title: Re: Ammo Shortage...
Post by: kjtrains on June 26, 2009, 10:27:14 PM: Just got an email from the Sportsman's Guide that my order for Remington Golden Sabres 147 gr. has shipped today. Order placed 5/2/09. Still waiting on Winchester 115 gr. Silvertips; expected ship date 7/20/09; also an order from Cabela's, for Silvertips, has been pushed to 7/15/09 as Tracker mentioned previously. That order was placed on 4/20/09.
Title: Re: Ammo Shortage...
Post by: ACP on June 27, 2009, 07:29:49 PM: Please post coments regarding 147 grain bullets. As you may recall, I am a "Richard groupie" and regard the 147 grain as the premier bullet.

I don't know the math but it is my belief that the heavier bullet facilitates slide travel and (for me) erases concern over FTF AND FTE.
Title: Re: Ammo Shortage...
Post by: kjtrains on June 27, 2009, 07:33:21 PM: Makes sense!
Title: Re: Ammo Shortage...
Post by: tracker on June 27, 2009, 10:34:01 PM: ACP,

If that is the case I will take reliability over velocity every time.
As I recall someone said they would do a range comparison and
give us something more than an anecdotal opinion.

I will look forward to that comparison, specific to the R9. As for
now I really like the Critical Defense 115 gr..
Title: Re: Ammo Shortage...
Post by: kjtrains on June 27, 2009, 10:56:20 PM: I'm still liking the Winchester Silvertips. I have the Critical Defense and soon the Golden Sabres and they are backups. It's good to know others are having success with these two. I'll just use the Silvertips as long as I can find them. I also have Gold Dots in 115 gr. and 124 gr. They are backups as well.
Title: Re: Ammo Shortage...
Post by: Richard S on June 28, 2009, 12:03:15 AM: Quote
Please post coments regarding 147 grain bullets. As you may recall, I am a "Richard groupie" and regard the 147 grain as the premier bullet.

I don't know the math but it is my belief that the heavier bullet facilitates slide travel and (for me) erases concern over FTF AND FTE.

The debate over bullet loads in 9mm Parabellum is about as vigorous as that involving 1911 vs. Glock or revolver vs. semi-automatic. I personally prefer to use a heavier load in a defensive handgun, wanting to dump as much kinetic energy as possible into the threat in a defensive shooting. In order to "soup up" the lighter 9mm loads, such as 115 and 124-grain, manufacturers have loaded some of those bullets to +P and +P+ pressures. Of course, our R9 is not designed for +P or +P+ loads.

The 147-grain 9mm JHP was first developed, I believe, for the Navy Seals to execute accurate head shots from suppressed weapons. Some law enforcement agencies also adopted the load, but there were some spotty results with expansion of some brands in the early years. In the years since, however, there have been great improvements in bullet design for the 147-grain 9mm JHP, and it is my understanding that the San Diego Police Department has been using the load successfully for almost two decades.

I load the 147-grain Remington Golden Saber BJHP in my R9, and have found it to be very accurate. (I used to load it in my HK P7 as well until I learned that the P7's gas-retarded recoil system had been designed specifically around the 115/124 NATO round.) It just seems to me that the modern-day 147-grain 9mm JHP offers, in a smaller package of course, some of the terminal performance of the 230-grain .45 ACP JHP.

Now, as I said, the debate is vigorous and reasonable minds will differ.

[size=10][Edit: Typos.][/size]
Title: Re: Ammo Shortage...
Post by: ACP on June 28, 2009, 08:22:19 AM: Please bear in mind that the 147 grain bullet, (Golden Sabre and Hornady TAP) is the ONLY premium 9MM I have found in my area.

I stand by my statement as to being inspired by Richard's comments, without which, I would not have even tried the heavier bullet. So, mine is a happy coincidence induced by necessity, given the present shortage.
Title: Re: Ammo Shortage...
Post by: tracker on June 28, 2009, 11:18:24 AM: The only alleged issue with the 147 gr. was the possibility
of "key holing" due to the R9 barrel twist rate, length, etc..
I don't recall any resolution of that subject.
Title: Re: Ammo Shortage...
Post by: Richard S on June 28, 2009, 03:25:09 PM: Our Forum member "flyandscuba" posted this photograph of the results of some newspaper wetpack testing which he and "oldgrandpa" conducted back in the summer of 2006. I saved it for reference in my "Ammunition" folder.

(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y30/RichardS/RohrbaughR9S-SeecampLWS380Shoot-out.jpg)

On the general subject of bullet tumbling or key holing, and although it has no particular relevance to the subject of performance of various defensive loads out of our little R9 "pocket rockets," it is interesting to note that many contemporary Russian-made 7.62x39 cartridges contain a modified M67 bullet specifically designed to enhance tumbling.

(If you contemplate this stuff long enough, you get a headache.) :-/
Title: Re: Ammo Shortage...
Post by: tracker on June 28, 2009, 04:09:34 PM: Thanks for that, Richard.
Title: Re: Ammo Shortage...
Post by: kjtrains on June 28, 2009, 07:12:25 PM: Good to know! Thanks!
Title: Re: Ammo Shortage...
Post by: ACP on June 28, 2009, 07:57:22 PM: Love that graphic and thank you for posting. Is the 147 grain bullet not the star of show?
Title: Re: Ammo Shortage...
Post by: Richard S on June 28, 2009, 08:44:29 PM: Quote
Love that graphic and thank you for posting. Is the 147 grain bullet not the star of show?

All I can say by way of defense of my position is that the Remington Golden Saber was not represented. ;)
Title: Re: Ammo Shortage...
Post by: tracker on June 28, 2009, 10:08:50 PM: I would really be interested in a simple comparison at 10-15 ft.
fired from an R9 to see if there is any key holing. The wet-pack
test is fired from very close range into wet soaked newspapers
that have expanded to about 14" in depth.

The graphic from flyandscuba doesn't make sense to me but maybe
I don't fully understand it. The main thing I take from it is that the
147 gr. penetrates deeper than 115 gr. and 124 gr.. Also, there is
no key holing with the 115 gr..

Although the comparison did not include the Golden Saber, neither
did it include Critical Defense, which may penetrate deeper than any
of them. No doubt, 147 gr. is better than in the past.

Bottom line: none of us is likely to change as long as what we use
continues to function properly and well.
Title: Re: Ammo Shortage...
Post by: DanR9SF on July 12, 2009, 01:12:33 PM: Just returned from a gun show in Virginia and the crowds were smaller than in the recent (6 months) past. Only a 5 minute wait in line to enter. Plenty of ammo and a good selection of firearms. I picked up 6 boxes of 9mm Gold Dot 115 grain - $25/50. Several tables were selling 9mm Gold Dot in 115g and 124g. A lot of 147g Hydra Shock too.

Overall it appears the (Gun Show) Obama Effect is wearing off and things like ammo and guns are returning to normal, at least in Virginia, today.
Title: Re: Ammo Shortage...
Post by: theirishguard on July 12, 2009, 01:15:28 PM: Dan, good news, we can only hope. Tom
Title: Re: Ammo Shortage...
Post by: kjtrains on July 12, 2009, 01:49:07 PM: Definitely, good news. Hope it spreads to NC and Ga.
Title: oERe: Ammo Shortage...
Post by: ACP on July 12, 2009, 02:13:16 PM: Good news, Dan, and thank you for posting. There are not many gunshows in northern New England, where I live, and the "obama effect" was very much in play the last gunshow I attended; Concord, New Hampshire in March.

Line was 1 hour long at show's opening. When I left, the line had grown to an hour and a half. The dilemma, for me, is this: I like the fact that gun sales are off the charts as it is a metric to gauge opposition to the leader of the free world. The downside, (inavailability of ammo), gives closure to the dilemma.