The Rohrbaugh Forum
Rohrbaugh Products and Accessories => Rohrbaugh R9 (all variations) => Topic started by: TW on May 21, 2005, 06:30:43 PM
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>>When I spoke to Eric yesterday he mentioned something I had not heard before... And that is the fact new guns are now either ready or have just been shipped out with the new "Deer Park" engraving on the slide. Apparently there are a few more of the pld style "Farmington" slides being heat treated for production but after that - that's it...! One of these days it would be nice to find out just how many of the Farmington guns were made - which if production continues on current or faster pace...will make our Farmington guns (especially with blue grips...and even more sepecially with silver frames) collector's items on short order...!
Out of curiosity - has anyone here obtained a gun yet with the Deer Park markings...?? Who will be the first...?...!!
Similar subject... late last year I brought up the idea to Eric of making a chronological registry of R9s for collectors and others interested in such things. This was back before the move to Deer Park. At the time it was simply not possible because of the move...but Eric was open to the idea and said to get back to him about it in the Spring. Well...Spring has almost tured to Summer and I think I will bring up the ideal again...
ERIC...!!... I know you are out there, and I know you read the forum regularly...so HOW ABOUT it, Bro...? Are you yet in a position to help work on this registry project...? If it would be of any help...I will offer to come up again and help with the grunt work...?...! Or maybe thats a scary enough proposition after my paint job at the factory that you will want to get on this yourself sooner than later...?...!! Later will work too...but remember - the more guns going out there means all the more work...! Thoughts please, Sir...? **TW cups ear to listen**...TW<<
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"..........
...will make our Farmington guns (especially with blue grips...and even more specially with silver frames) collector's items on short order...! " TW
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Mine is all of above, PLUS a Neat-o Serial number, 60X ;D
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TW, next time you talk to Eric, please ask him to drop me an e-mail.
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TW,
This is a very much needed service.
As a bit of background, when I first found a dealer with an R9 in stock, I specifically asked if it had the Farmingdale marking on the slide, which it did, -so I got it quickly. It wasn't until after I got in touch with Eric that I learned about the excess Farmingdale slides that were actually being consumed in production at the new facility. Turns out that there were only about 300-350 R9's produced at the original facility, mine not being one of them. If there was a registry, I might have had that information much sooner. As much as I like my R9, I have to admit I was somewhat disappointed to learn that I didn't have exactly what I thought ( and read on the slide ) I had.
Plus, when you add in the fact that the serial numbers on the frame only represent a chronology of frame manufacturing (not a completed unit), it adds further confusion.
I know, for each serial number, I would like to see the following:
- Serial Number
- Date Shipped from the factory
- Slide marking (farmingdale / deer park)
- Model marking (R9 / R9s)
- Factory of origin
- Grip color
- Frame color
- Sights / un-sighted
I'm just not clear how this information will be made available, should Eric go ahead and provide it. Also, do you see this as something that will be kept up with for each R9 produced in perpetuity? Should this apply to all future caliber Rohrbaugh pistols, as well?
Details, details. . . ;)
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How many sets of the blue grips were made? 300-350?
I tried my damnest to get the silver frame model, but by the time I decided to buy it was too late :'(
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>>Hey RJ...I'll swap you one of my R9s PLUS a chunk of unused bubble gum for that 'Ol silver framed R9 of yours...what do you say...?...! Pleeeeeeeeaze...??
And Fudster...chances are you just asked Eric yourself to call you (Eric - you hear that?). So if he does call...let me know. Otherwise you might call Maria and have her ask Eric to call you when he gets a chance (??)...although I don't know if that is current protocol or not. I will try to remember to tell Eric myself next time I speak with him...but please realize I don't get to talk with him all that often as I try to respect his privacy at home these days (I haven't tried to get him at work myself in a long time).
Regarding my contact with Eric... I mostly just hear from Eric when there is something big going on (like the PA gathering or a cool beaner R9 happening)...and I guess I'm one of several people around here he chats with about what he sees here on the forum...!
Eric really does come here to read and enjoy what folks have to say, and he views the Rohrbaugh forum as the "R9 clubhouse", although he is also careful to say it is not an official body or spokesvenue of Rohrbaugh Firearms - one of those frickin lawyer things...which is also why you don't see him post here... Not that he wouldn't like to...just has to walk a thin line with lawyers on one side and us on another...all part of being a Rock Star - lol. HOWEVER... His hands and mouth are NOT so tied when it comes to joining us at things like the PA gathering...which is why he is so excited about it, and hopes as many forum members as can will also try to make it...!
Wayne...I like your ideas for info to cover in a registry. Have you, or anyone else here, ever seen such a gun registry before...? I haven't. I don't know WHO would be maintaining such a registry, although it would certainly require that someone at Rohrbaugh Firearms either do it themselves or feed data on a regular basis to someone else who might do it. I'm sure the Rohrbaugh crew are not looking for something additional to do...but as I see it - once it is caught up...might not be that much work to send to someone else...maybe...? Regardless of who does the work...my original thought was to have it done or shared here so Rohrbaugh forum members could benefit from it...or maybe have Chris add it to his FAQ site. I'm hardly the brains behind this idea...I'd just like to use it myself - lol...! Anyone else have any thoughts on this...?...Duane...?...Chris...?
I'm not sure how many sets of blue grips were made...but 300-350 sounds about right...maybe a few more than that.
And with that - I'm off to bed...TW<<
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TW
Eat your heart out........... ;D
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v497/rhedley/RohrbaughR9S001.jpg)
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Are the earliest guns without the "R" prefix ? I have a lower s# than 600 (246 & R141) niether have silver frames, both have blue grips & only #246 has R9S on the slide even though both have sights. Both are Farmingdale slides. :P ::) :o
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My gun is a fluke, It was submitted to Rohrbaugh as a Sample from a Plating Vendor. I had a request in for a silver one if possible, and this one popped up, and I grabbed it, and was told there were "NO more."
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RJ:
That looks like an electroless nickel finish or maybe even hardchrome.
I only know of two places that will hardchrome aluminum frames:
http://www.mahovskysmetalife.com/
http://www.fordsguns.com/
It seems like a more durable option over the anodizing plus you can have that silver frame that you always wanted.
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>>RJ... I AM eating my heart out...! Wow...what a BEAUTIFUL gun...! Soooooo...why does it not have a serial # "RS", rather than simply "R"...? And why does this 'Lil gem have black grips on it...? I'm TELLING you, RJ...that gun is defective...which is why, out of the kindness of my heart, my offer stands...!
Also (for Newt too) ...I had thought the earlier guns had "RS" markings. Hmmmm...YEP, we definately need a registry...TW<<
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''RS''?? Nah - not to my knowledge TW.!! :P
IMO the ''registry'' idea should be something akin to S&W - a way to date an individual gun - no info on owner (for public display) but a means to track the history from the factory etc. This would help re the variance on sequence of S/N's and the frame and slide changes and when.
It would be nice to periodically have a fairly current list on my site tho over time it would get huge!! So maybe - this is something just for factory - even to point where one day folks need to pay a small fee to cover the time involved in bringing up the info. Remember - Eric has little spare time!
Now RJ has gone and shown his early one - I thought Ok - my turn!! So here are my pup twins. The early Farmingdale is marked R9s - the S/N is 32x ...... silver frame and blue grips of course. Trying to remember now - one of 45 or so perhaps.
#2 is the newer frame color - S/N R30x (ignore my spoof S/N on the pic!!) .... still blue grips - slide is farmingdale but now no ''s'' any more.
My first has only had 300 rounds or so thru - already has been treated (unnecessarily) to a new recoil spring and is now resting mostly in a quiety corner of the safe - on green velvet! I am beginning to find it hard to put a value on it - it is so special.
(http://www.acbsystems.com/boards/thr/cb_gun2/r9-01_s.jpg)
(http://www.acbsystems.com/boards/thr/cb_gun2/r9-2-s.jpg)
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>>Very nice, Chris...! If I had both the opportunity and money at the same time I would jump on the opportunity to purchase a silver frame R9...!! Maybe one day. Meanwhile I get a whole lot of enjoyment out of my two R9s...!!...!!
You make some good points about the R9 registry. And if we were to somehow have one made up of guns to present...at least we would know where OUR early collectable guns stand...ya know...? It certainly would be a major service to the R9 community if the factory folks were to develop and maintain a registry. I'd chip in some bucks right now to see it get started...!...TW<<
I have a niave question... Why is it that people on the internet are often shy to make public the entire serial number of their guns? What is the "at risk" factor here?
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TW - I think the ''risk factor'' with S/N's is probably negligable. However - worst case - just perhaps someone wants to claim they have gun # such and such, when they don't - or perhaps too there is a feeling of loss of privacy.
May seem trivial but I guess my feeling is - I don't have to divulge all of it - so I won't! :P ;D This smilie says it all ..........
(http://www.acbsystems.com/images/smilies/neener.gif) Haha! :D
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I have a niave question... Why is it that people on the internet are often shy to make public the entire serial number of their guns? What is the "at risk" factor here?
To give a rather anal answer to your question, it is very possible to track an internet conversation (connection) back to a subscriber of an internet provider. Any government agency operating under the auspices of the Patriot act, such as DHS, can track a posted picture (or any web conversation) back to a gateway provider, and back to a user of the service. This is almost a trivial task and is performed daily by many different branches of law enforcement. The conversation between the user and the target web site logs a sender and a receiver. Just as an FYI, the protocol typically used for web conversations is HTTP over IP (TCP/IP) and requires the identification of both the sender and the receiver's IP address. The request(s) and respons(es) are routed directly between the two parties, not sent all over the Internet, hoping there is a receiver at either end. From a single contact between a web server and a browser, one can get the visitor's IP address, the browser type, the operating system, the page the request came from ("referrer") and a whole lot of other information. The service provider can be compelled to provide who was registered to the IP address at that time. Viola, a link is made between the posted picture with serial number to an actual persion!
Now, the question becomes, "does the average Joe who posts his picture remove the serial number because he is aware of this tactic?" Probably not. If this is something that bothers you, then consider it when you post pictures, offer opinions, or otherwise contribute. Just be aware that this isn't something that you have a whole lot of control over anyway, plus I would hate to see this site without the pictures of all the cool guns! ;)
If you really want to get "freaked out", go to Google maps (http://maps.google.com) and be sure to click on the satellite link on the top right portion of the page. You can enter a street address and actually see a satellite picture. I found my own backyard! :o
TW - As to your question in an earlier post, I have not heard of a registry before. But I do agree with you and others on several points that were made:
1) It could be a very valuable source of information, particularly to the afficionados of the R9.
2) I'm sure the Rohrbaugh brothers have much better/more important things to do with their time (i.e. produce R9s!)
3) Ownership should be anonymous. For sure, I wouldn't want to see "R9S, blue grips, serial number xxxx purchased by Wayne on xx/xx/xx" posted all over the place. But if I were buying another or (heaven forbid) selling one, I would like to be able to offer proof as to it's lineage.
If you speak with Eric and he indicates that there may be some way for him to provide this information, I will go ahead and throw my hat in as a volunteer. I can be PM'd for details.
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Wayne-
Why does tha satalite photo freak you out. If you have my address, you can stop by...no need to use a satalite.
And while I think we all already knew that a picture I post of a gun on the net can be traced to me...the real question is whether it is a big deal or not that others know my gun's serial number. If you knew my car's VIN number...so what? My gun doesn't have any credit cards or bank accounts to steal. Knowing it's number doesn't somehow make you the owner....so just what's the big deal?
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I really don't worry much about who knows what firearms I own. Here are some of the reasons:
CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
Preamble.
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
* * *
Amendment I - Freedom of Religion, Press, Expression.
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
Amendment II - Right to bear arms.
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
***
Amendment IV - Search and seizure.
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
Keep the faith and stay the course. (And by the way, are your NRA dues up to date?)
RS
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Wayne-
Why does tha satalite photo freak you out. If you have my address, you can stop by...no need to use a satalite.
A satellite photo of my backyard doesn't freak me out. It's the fallacy that many people hold that simply because they are on the Internet using an alias login that they are invisible and they don't need to be protective of their personal information, gun serial numbers included. Personal information is like dominos: once the first bit is derived, the next detail falls, then the next, and so on.
Without going into exactly how this is accomplished, suffice it to say that no one has to have your address as a starting point to get to your house. Simply playing with information publicly available to the "average Joe" on the Internet can yield a set of driving directions to your house, and detailed pictures of your landscape (complete with trees and out buildings).
Generally speaking, may people are surprised at the amount of information that is freely available, hacking and screw ups (e.g. the ChoicePoint fiasco) notwithstanding.
If you go to your county's web site, there is a good chance that you can look up your own ( or your neighbor's ) property tax assessment including lot size, square footage of house, and taxes paid over the previous years. If the county doesn't have this, one can whittle away at the lexis-nexis database (although you must pay for some services).
I don't know if anyone here recalls this, but several years ago, the Edgar archives (SEC Filings Database) provided Bill Gates social security number on one of Microsoft's public filings. While this is arguably one of the richest men of our time, he didn't know his personal information was available until it was misused.
On a dare, I was able to give a teacher with an unlisted phone number information about his last 6 cities of residence (over 3 states), his current address, round trip mileage to his job, and the name of his subdivision block captian. It took less than 20 minutes and I didn't pay a dime. Although I didn't provide him with the satellite pictures of his back yard, believe me, he was very freaked out. ;)
YMMV.
All I'm saying is that the same thing is possible with posting a picture, or posting an opinion, or doing anything else on the Internet. If someone wants to afford themselves the privacy of not showing their serial number, one has to respect that.
And while I think we all already knew that a picture I post of a gun on the net can be traced to me...the real question is whether it is a big deal or not that others know my gun's serial number. If you knew my car's VIN number...so what? My gun doesn't have any credit cards or bank accounts to steal. Knowing it's number doesn't somehow make you the owner....so just what's the big deal?
Your gun serial number is very much different from your VIN. As an example of "worst case" abuse, let's suppose that someone who didn't like you very much was able to acertain that you had an R9 serial number "Rxxx". Agreed, that in itself is no big deal. Now let's take a big, scary step further. That person calls the police and states the following:
"I was threated at gunpoint by [insert your name here]. He was even so brazen as to stick the gun in my mouth and shout at me while I was held here for hours. I was so terrified for my life that I'll never forget the serial number Rxxx. That's why I called 911. Thank God you're here!"
Now I think we can all agree that this is not a situation any of us would want to have to defend, so why take the chance? Now I'm not a police officer, but I would imagine the first order of business after you are taken into custody will be to verify the story by checking for an R9 with the matching serial number. After that, I imagine it's pretty much an uphill (and expensive) climb for the defense. And, granted, that's a pretty extreme example. But again, I'm not the most sinister mind in the world, so I'm sure there are others who can do much worse.
While I am a faithful supporter of the Constitution, I'm not sure how it is going to protect me in this case. In this example, I have sowed the seeds of my own demise by unnecessarily providing too much personal information. While I agree with Richard that perhaps knowlege by others of what guns I own isn't necessarily a bad thing, I don't believe that anything good can come of offering a published record of owners to serial numbers.
By the way, this doesn't have so much to do with the Constitution, but rather the freedom of information. Where this may become a constitutional issue is in what is done with the information by agents of the government. Keep in mind, all of these examples utilize civilian systems, -the government can do much better! Use prudent judgement in what you chose to publish for all the world to see.
This is precisely why I keep my NRA dues paid, and my personal information close to the vest. ;)
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With all this ability to find out who is who on the internet, why can't they find who is sending out the computer viruses and worms?
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I'll answer your question with a question. A few weeks ago, a relative of mine had her purse stolen, -even caught it on tape. The police officer didn't seem to be overly concerned about the crime and the guy was never pursued. Over the following days, the thief even used her credit cards. Why hasn't he been caught?
I get notifications every day at work that an email was rejected because it contained a virus. It even has the email address of the sender (granted, the email address of a sender can be easily made up).
The common denominator is human behavior. There is always an economic trade off to be made when considering any action. By economic, I don't just mean financial, but also effort vs. result, risk vs. reward, etc. I guess in some cases, it is less of a hassle to block a crime or provide a barrier than it is to pursue the issue at it's root. That's the underlying concept not only behind all those buildings downtown with bars on the windows, but also the anti-virus software running on all our computers.
No disrespect intended to anyone in law enforcement.
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My Serial number? I have Photo Shop.. ;D
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Haha - me too RJ - well an equivalent.
All RJ's guns have S/N ''RJ-123456'' ;D
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I wish the R9 registry that was being talked about on the first page of this thread had gotten started back then! I would still LOVE to see it happen and would not mind giving a donation to help get it started. It really would "help" when trying to figure out how early a pup is. DD can you ask the brothers about this?
Corey
ps. yea, i'm still on the hunt for "that" early one!
Edited to add: Even if it was just for all the Farmingdale guns that would be SO nice.
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Corey,
You like bringing up these oldies eh!!! ;)
I think that some of the owners do not like to give up their #s cause of being leary about what someone can/may do with them..
Things can be found out about what one has..
There are a few shopped #s floating around out there also..
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Corey,
You like bringing up these oldies eh!!! ;)
I think that some of the owners do not like to give up their #s cause of being leary about what someone can/may do with them..
Things can be found out about what one has..
There are a few shopped #s floating around out there also..
Also I sure some would worry about being harassed by people wanting to purchase it. (Corey, not directed at you.) But there are people out there that will contact you any way they can to try and get you to sell something they really want. With all your information available on the internet for a few dollars (home and cell number, address, e-mail address) and you can get most of it free if you know were to look.
John
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Corey. You can handle it, right! ;D
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I was not thinking about having any owner info, just the order they come out of the factory along with what color frames, which grips , etc they came with. That way you could make a more informed decision about things if/when buying a early Rohrbaugh pistol.
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Also I sure some would worry about being harassed by people wanting to purchase it. ([glb]Corey, not directed at you[/glb].) John
;D It's more than likley a good thing I don't know who has all the early ones! My wallet would NOT be my friend.
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I know there's someone out there that has an R9 with serial no. under 130, no R prefix, that wants to sell. You know you do. Just do the PM thing! :) ;)
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One that went rogue.
(http://i700.photobucket.com/albums/ww2/imthduke/GUNS/Robar.jpg)
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Very nice, Duke. It's getting harder and harder to resist these one tone wonders. :)