The Rohrbaugh Forum
Miscellaneous => Other Guns => Topic started by: Nomad on February 18, 2010, 10:21:10 PM
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Ok - I need the skinny on this gun. Let's see 1) heavier +p loads, 2) 7+1 capacity, 3) $849 dollars. So it appears to be about the same size as the r9s, with heavier firepower and more shots at a cheaper price. Should I be getting on the waiting list for this gun or is the stats for it just marketing sleight of hand?
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The design is quite revolutionary but keep in mind the shorty weighs 17 0z., about 4 more than the R9. I love one of the descriptions that it provides more "kinematic balance of the cartridge."
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Boberg is not taking orders at the present time. I don't know enough about the gun to call it superior; different, fits for now.
I tried putting in an order, but he (Boberg) says he's not that far along yet, maybe June.............We're see.
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Very interesting video of it being fired on their website:
http://www.bobergarms.com/notes/XR9_Shorty
Mark
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I'm not sure about the way they feed the ammo. I think I'd hold off owning one until it was thoroughly tested in real world conditions. It's also thicker than the R9.
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I like it just because it's different. It does shoot +P ammo and is interesting.
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For my own use...I'd be a little worried that in time of need, my habits formed with a two handed grip...one thumb above the other...from shooting my R9 and other more standard design guns, might just cost me the end of my left thumb.
Of course, that would only happen once....
Think I'll stay with the R9.
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I will definitely stay with the R9. The Boberg will just be an addition, like the recent Glock 33, 357 sig., which is like an R9 on steroids; still comfortable to shoot.
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I'm with you. I'll probably purchase one but the R9 is staying with in my pocket...
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That's the way to go. I just like guns. If a new one comes along, I seemingly, gotta have it; especially if it's powerful. Powerful, small package, or powerful, big package, doesn't really matter. Oh, well, that's my addiction.
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I can't think of a better one. Unfortunately, I need to be pretty selective ...at least until the economy gets back on track...then I'll go back to "mainlining" different guns and calibers. Until then...I'm going cold turkey.
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I was hoping the R45 would be here soon, but now a year + away and the Boberg maybe some time this year. We'll see.....on both.
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Lets not forget about the Microtech Archangel 9mm and less than 8oz
empty and under $600.
http://pistolbuyersguide.com/Articles.php?action=detail&g=content1246208096
John
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Just from an initial perspective it appears that there is very little room in front of the Archangel trigger to place the finger; this is very important in a quick response self-defense situation. The R9 is quite generous in this regard.
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I agree 100% with that, you would have to be careful or shoot one handed.
John
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The Kel-Tec PF-9 has the same problem: too little space in front of the trigger.
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I have never paid much attention to the Kel-Tecs after looking at a P3AT,
it was rougher than a cob.
I know they have there followers and are probably good guns, but not for me, I like my guns a little more refined.
John
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Just from an initial perspective it appears that there is very little room in front of the Archangel trigger to place the finger; this is very important in a quick response self-defense situation. The R9 is quite generous in this regard.
I agree. The Archangel has very little space there. That would be a concern.
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I agree 100% with that, you would have to be careful or shoot one handed.
John
I shoot one handed, but with the Archangel, it seems like you'd be threading the needle, so to speak.
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I have never paid much attention to the Kel-Tecs after looking at a P3AT,
it was rougher than a cob.
I know they have there followers and are probably good guns, but not for me, I like my guns a little more refined.
John
Same here. Some like them, I'm sure. On this one, it just doesn't get my vote; now, that's just my thoughts. We all can't like everything!
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I know I'm on a different track than many on this...but my philosophy on guns pretty much boils down to having, carrying and practicing only with the guns I am most comfortable and competent with. I am a shooter...not a collector. Anything I own, needs to carry its own weight in filling a need. If I were in a different financial position, I might think differently from an investment point of view...not from a self defense prospective ...but, it's easy to get confused with "I'll carry this one (my new "Bad Guy Super Gun") today...'cause I got my new holster and ...whatever. I found my self making excuses to carry guns I wasn't that familiar with.
Have now corrected the problem by thinning the herd and am getting back to MY basics...Someday, maybe I'll be a collector...but with a different set of guidelines than previously used.
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I can certainly understand your point of view. We are all different and have different agendas; and that's OK.
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Gotta wait and see on this one. I can't tell you how many times I've jumped on new models only to be disappointed.
Green
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This is a really interesting startup product. Arne Boberg -- the designer -- went to my AlmaWhatever the University of Minnesota, and evidently worked for Imation here: a major manufacturer or computer storage devices. So, we can assume that the handgun design is truly a labor of love, and we all should applaud and encourage any and all such activities. I live here in the frozen Northern wastelands of Minnesota (along with not-too-bright-or-cold-impervious ancestors, for five generations - "It's not the end of the world, but we can see it from here"), not 15 minutes from White Bear Lake (Don't laugh!) where Arne and his company lives. I'll try to get together with him personally, and provide more information. :)
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Thanks for your humor on Minehaha; you're still somewhat south of being a youper from Michigan, I think, aren't you?
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I have no personal knowledge of the Boberg firearms now in use or production. I've had some email conversations with Arne Boberg, since he only lives about 18 minutes from me. :)
OK, and don't laugh about or make fun of "White Bear Lake, MN" -- it's no sillier than a lot of place names.
If Arne passes on anything for 'public information' I will certainly post it here.
I would suggest resisting the expectation of getting timely, personal responses from the website, etc.
As far as I can tell, this is a true 'startup' company, and consists pretty much of Arne and his wife.
He's obviously a very bright and talented person, and the technical design aspects seem very interesting and innovative. We all should know -- especially on a Rohrbaugh forum -- how difficult and 'long-term' a struggle it is, to make a go of it in this world and economy.
All the best to you all.
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whkrog. Thanks for the update!
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Any of you following this pistol should know that his production date goal of July 2010 has now come and gone. I went through the Boberg forum again and looked - no more updates as of yet on a new release date. I'm on the waiting list for when they do finally come out, but I'm not holding my breath. Made another request for a date, we'll see.
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MJ. I'm on the waiting list, as well, and haven't heard a word. Looks like we would get an update now and then.
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Im on the list also. I got in on it very early so I hope to have a VERY LOW serial number when they do make it to production. Arne is very good about answering emails if you have any questions you should email him.
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Corey. Will do; see if I can get an update.
Just sent email to Arne.
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Any of you following this pistol should know that his production date goal of July 2010 has now come and gone. I went through the Boberg forum again and looked - no more updates as of yet on a new release date. I'm on the waiting list for when they do finally come out, but I'm not holding my breath. Made another request for a date, we'll see.
Not uncommon for the gun industry.
The new Bren Ten by Vltor had so called proto types at the shot show before last and it still has not come to fruitiion.
The new Auto Mags are supposted to be out in Oct, no word yet , which means probably not.
The New Merwin Hulbert has pulling us around for two years now and just has CAD drawing claiming early 2011 realease date. That ain't happening if that's all they got.
This is why I'm glad Karl and Eric are not giving dates for the R45.
When it comes to manufacturing, you just can't predict until it is just about done.
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Arne wrote a reply -- no dates, but an updated photo of the new grips for his pistols. A little evasive, but Reinz you're right, certainly understandable.
Interesting little weapon -- the rounds slide out the back of the top of the magazine instead of the front. A really cool feeding design that allows more barrel length and accompanying velocity. I live about 15 minutes away from the factory, so as soon as they're ready, I'll break as many traffic laws as I need to to get it!
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Thanks for the update MJ, many of us are ready for this one too.
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Reinz,
Do you have a website for the new Auto Mag? I can't find anything on it. I have a North Hollywood that I bought in '87. I should have purchased one of the Harry Sanford guns from a few years ago, but I was slack.
Thanks,
Mark
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I would consider Arne a friend of mine, and hope he would reciprocate. :)
Yesterday, he and I spent some time in the 'factory office' measuring some detailed tigger pull (force x dstance, etc), firing pin force profile etc. on my Rohrbaugh R9s, and comparing it to a real, existing protype version of his XR9.
Afterwards, we went out to a private range, and shot a bunch of different ammo/loads thru both of these firearms, both thru a chonograph to get data, and then just rapid-fire into the range berm for fun/experience.
He had not fired a Rohrbaugh before, since they're a little rare up here in these parts.
Bottom line impressions: the Boberg XR9 functions just fine; felt recoil is a little less than the Rohrbaugh, although mine is a ported (by Bob Cogan, ask Corey) version.
Part of this is no doubt due to the fact that the XR9 is a much different design, and includes a rotating barrel - which takes energy to affect, and thus reduces recoil.
We shot a numnber of +P rounds thru the XR9 which handled them just fine, with a slightly sharper but by no means uncontrollable recoil or muzzle jump, but sounded very nicely louder and more fun:)
Remember that the XR9 has a 4-inch barrel, in the same size package of the Rohrbaugh's 2.9+ inch barrel. This leads in the same rounds fired, to a higher velocity and greater energy delivered.
The Boberg prototype/test weapon we were shooting had more than 5000 rounds run thru it previously.
Both the R9S and the XR9 experienced FTF problem with those French rounds with really hard primers (which Karl R . referred to as 'sh***ty' bullets.
More needs to be done, of course, but it is so cool to go out to a range where someone asks. "What kind of gun is that?" and you tell them. Then they say "Never heard of that. Who made it?" And Arne can say, "I did." and give the person a business card...
He's a terrific engineer, a very. very smart person, a nice guy, and has been 'making his own guns' since he was about 12 years old. Whether this adventure will be a financial success, this is too complicated for me to figure out, but I surely hope so.
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New left grip
(http://api.ning.com:80/files/SE5fHFREhLCqy4we95qi-u6QaUIi3U1ZftgH3wKFDDW0dOmV9mhMwrxDUmU2lQSD6FUszXqjyP2FySm58T4ym-7HWblJiPLe/DSCF2051rotated10cropped.jpg)
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Very impressive and thanks for the insight.
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I hope it becomes a reality and they are able to make it in the long haul.
The only thing I would like to see is a more squared trigger guard with some checkering on the front, it looks a little iffy for a good two handed grip especially for someone with big mitts.
John
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Scar - Yeah I found out about the Harry Sanford AFTER they were all gone.
Spoke too soon on the AutoMag, now they are saying 11/17 unveiling.
http://automagcompany.com/
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The only thing I would like to see is a more squared trigger guard with some checkering on the front, it looks a little iffy for a good two handed grip especially for someone with big mitts.
John
I agree Yankee, that's why the Desert Eagle 380 does not interest me, same set up.
But isn't the Boberg going to come out with a longer barrel also?
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According to what I remember on there site there were two barrel lengths but when I just looked there is only the Shorty mentioned, maybe later. ???
Even with a longer barrel model I would like a squared trigger guard on a gun firing +P ammo.
John
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Just to clarify - the XR9-S has a 3.35" barrel, not a 4" barrel. The future XR9-L has a 4.2" barrel.
As far as the "french" ammo - that was actually Sellier and Bellot (Czech?). Both the Rohrbaugh and the XR9-S had at least one failure to fire with this hard-primer target ammo. The R9S actually failed on a repeat strike. At that point, we ejected the "dud" round. I have a standard delrin rod that I "launch" to see how hard the firing pin hits it by how high it goes. The R9S launched the rod 7 inches vertically (after two tries), the XR9-S launched the rod 13-14 inches after two tries. Even so, the S&B primers are stubborn. While the primers on defense ammo are usually very soft (I have never had an XR9 FTFire with of dozens of brands of commercial defense ammo), I am considering offering a 7 to 8 lb spring as an option (same force as the R9S I tested). This spring, which has already been made and tested, launches our test rod 20 inches and easily cracks the S&B primers. The current standard XR9-S spring is 5.5 lbs pull at the trigger.
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Thank you Reinz. That is one big dollar gun, wow!!!
Mark
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Just to clarify - the XR9-S has a 3.35" barrel, not a 4" barrel. The future XR9-L has a 4.2" barrel.
As far as the "french" ammo - that was actually Sellier and Bellot (Czech?). Both the Rohrbaugh and the XR9-S had at least one failure to fire with this hard-primer target ammo. The R9S actually failed on a repeat strike. At that point, we ejected the "dud" round. I have a standard delrin rod that I "launch" to see how hard the firing pin hits it by how high it goes. The R9S launched the rod 7 inches vertically (after two tries), the XR9-S launched the rod 13-14 inches after two tries. Even so, the S&B primers are stubborn. While the primers on defense ammo are usually very soft (I have never had an XR9 FTFire with of dozens of brands of commercial defense ammo), I am considering offering a 7 to 8 lb spring as an option (same force as the R9S I tested). This spring, which has already been made and tested, launches our test rod 20 inches and easily cracks the S&B primers. The current standard XR9-S spring is 5.5 lbs pull at the trigger.
Would a 7-8# spring possibly be overkill for the everyday ammunition?
If you did get a box of ammunition with softer primers, and perhaps the cartridge is the slightest bit longer, and this firing pin hits with 8# of force, could there be damage to the firing pin or perhaps not allow the primer to ignite?
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Arne. Thanks for the rely, which was: hope to still get guns out this year.
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A 7-8# spring was what I found balanced reasonable trigger force with being able to set off any primer out there (including the now "old-style" Brown Bear, who has made huge improvements in primer consistency). In the XR9, this strength spring would not be overkill since a hammer-operated pistol will still not hit as hard as a pre-loaded striker. My delrin rod test show 36-40 inches travel with preloaded striker (or some pre-loaded hammer) pistols. This is only matched by my Sig P226 (SA/DA) with a very heavy trigger pull (about 12#). By the way, one tradoff with striker-fired pistols is that the slide force must be high enough to keep the slide from moving back when actuating the striker spring. With a hammer-operated gun, the slide spring only has to be strong enough to overcome gravity and maybe some holster rubbing.
Hasn't Rohrbaugh now gone to a higher trigger force as standard? I think I read somewhere that it was now 11#.
Also, does Rohrbaugh use a strong firing pin return spring to help reduce drop-firing, or do they use a passive firing pin safety?
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I've never seen a firing pin damaged - in the XR9 these are made from a very tough and strong SS. Our firing pin design takes advantage of the "direct connect" method instead of an "intertial" method. This allows the hammer to dump all its energy into denting the primer. And we were still able to get the passive firing pin safety to work using this method. The key was to have the firing pin return spring set at a higher pre-load than the hammer spring (mainspring). Are you taking notes, Karl and Eric? ;-)
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Arne, it sounds like you have a great handle on the light strike issue.
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New left grip
(http://api.ning.com:80/files/SE5fHFREhLCqy4we95qi-u6QaUIi3U1ZftgH3wKFDDW0dOmV9mhMwrxDUmU2lQSD6FUszXqjyP2FySm58T4ym-7HWblJiPLe/DSCF2051rotated10cropped.jpg)
Excellent, Corey! Thanks!
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Due to popular demand, here is a "preliminary" video. I didn't do a voiceover due to a sore throat today. http://www.bobergarms.com/video/xr9s-takedown-video
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Now that looks simple enough! YES! Thanks!
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A kinematic marvel!
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Looks like you may have done that before. ;D
John
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Thanks for the explanation on the firing pin spring, one reason I really don't care for striker fired guns.
That is a very interesting video, thanks for posting it.
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Looks like you may have done that before. ;D
John
Only a few thousand times... ;)
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Well I'm waiting to get mine so I can practice. ;D
I need serial # 2500, can we request custom serial numbers ?
John
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I want a custom serial no. too! :D
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I might want a custom serial number for my 3rd one. The first two I want LOW serial numbers. ;D
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I was thinking about 0001. :D
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Are these guns being offered yet ? I want one....
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No, not yet.
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Are these guns being offered yet ? I want one....
Boberg last week said in an email, that they still were expecting to produce guns this year. Sign up to their web page Bobergarms.com and get on their list that you want a gun.
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I signed up but never heard anything.....I'll go check it out and e-mail them, thanks.
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Email Arne Boberg at arne@bobergarms.com and ask him to put you on the Preorder List for which of the two guns you want or both. He will email you back confirming you are on the list.
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Ok, i'll do that now thanks.
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Good deal! You should now be set! :)
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Thanks again, sent him an e-mail.
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Let me know when the Boberg XR9-µ gets into production. ;)
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Will do! :)
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Let me know when the R45 is available and the Microtec Archangel. ;D ;D
John
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Will do! ;D
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There is something going on at Microtech and it doesn't look good. Their website is all but shut down and very little info available.
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There is something going on at Microtech and it doesn't look good. Their website is all but shut down and very little info available.
I wouldn't hold my breath for the archangel.
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I was only referring to the knives; the Archangel will never happen. Maybe one of our N.C. forum residents could do a drive-by and assess their alleged N.C. facilities. Has anyone seen an MSAR STG 556, their answer to the Steyr Aug?
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I've been looking at one at the local dealer for a good while now. John has one, purchased not too long ago.
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If you like it you might want to close the deal before they close.
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I had been holding off on it due to wanting something in .308. John pointed me in the direction of the Kel-Tec RFB18 Bull Pup.
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I like that one, too; are they available yet?
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They are. Corey told me of a place in Ga. while we were there and they did have one in stock, but about $200. higher than I can get it at another site. This place is currently out of stock.
http://snipercountrypx.com/pc-5416-1219-kel-tec-rfb-18-bullpup-rifle-308.aspx
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Here is are two posts from usaaug.com forum about Microtec being for sale or whatever.
#1
I did some searching also, no clues found. ATF still has their license listed. Google earth shows their new location according to the address . Funny thing is its located in a small Suite "D". They do have larger out buildings nearby that could be their manufacturing area, but it seems strange to have an office located outside the manufacturing building . A previous post from last year said they had thousands of parts and mags in stock but its strange that none have been for sale recently. A local Bradford artical from 2008 states they are moving due to poor employee pool and unskilled labor and that 98% of their workforce was making the move, i know things change in a year but so much for the argument of training new employees if in fact 98% did move. Are they still making knives and rifles ? not much selling right now. Makes me wonder how they can stay in business with such a long move time , poor rifle sales , deflated value of rifles in circulation , QC problems, employees leaving and a company thats very quit. Its a very unique situation , times is their enemy., I wish them luck.
#2
Only one employee made the move to NC. Everybody else was smart enough not to. (Sorry "F"!). The "suite" is the only building they had in NC two months ago, and I bet it still is.
John
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Thanks, John, that confirms my suspicions.
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* * * Has anyone seen an MSAR STG 556, their answer to the Steyr Aug?
There is one MSAR STG 556 that just popped up on Gunbroker. (I have no relation to or knowledge of the seller.)
http://www.gunsamerica.com//951799242/Guns/Rifles/A-Misc-Rifles/MSAR_STG_556.htm?wl=1
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That's a shame, at half the price of an AUG, they have something going there.
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Here is a place that sells the STGs and manufactures some accessories for them.
http://www.ratworxusa.com/
John
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John. That looks like some good prices as well.
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There prices are pretty good and anything I have read from people who have had dealings with them is positive.
John
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I looked for the Kel Tec .308 with them, but looks like they don't carry it.
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I wonder what we will see first the Boberg or the R45. ;D
John
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That's probably anybody's guess! ;)
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(http://i413.photobucket.com/albums/pp216/yankee2500/3D_emoticon_185.gif)
John
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This is one cool dude! ;D
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No doubt.
John
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You just have to like 'em. ;)
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Got an update today from Arne Boberg on the XR9 series of pistols that the preorder notification is expected as early as March, 2011.
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(http://i413.photobucket.com/albums/pp216/yankee2500/3D_emoticon_141.gif) (http://i413.photobucket.com/albums/pp216/yankee2500/woo.gif) (http://i413.photobucket.com/albums/pp216/yankee2500/woo.gif) (http://i413.photobucket.com/albums/pp216/yankee2500/3D_emoticon_141.gif)
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I know; you're thrilled!
(http://s575.photobucket.com/albums/ss197/kjtrains/SMILEY.gif)
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Arne's last update posted tonight!
"All I can say right now is that we are starting to make production slides - which are some of the last parts to be made."
http://www.bobergarms.com/forum/topics/the-question-everyone-wants?id=2312567:Topic:2387&page=14#comments
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Sorta interesting.
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y6/los3088/RohrbaughR9-BobergXR9-Scomparison-1.jpg)
LOS over on the Seecamp forum made the chart. I will link others here too.
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By looking at the s X s comparison on Corey's chart, it looks like the Boberg may win out on less perceived recoil.
It appears that by grip design, the gun may not want to torque up and "out" of the shooters grip as much as the R9.
And there is a fraction of an inch more of grip to hold on to as well to leverage against that torque - just as Yankee's girp extensions - while not as much so.
May not work out that way, but just a curisousity.
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I think that an additional advantage of Boberg over the Rohrbaugh would be the barrel length. Boberg designed his pistol with that in mind and it is 3.35" to Rohrbaugh's 2.9"
It can make a difference in accuraracy and recoil.
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I have tried to stay out of this thread, except for one post giving a link to a Gunbroker item, because of my well-known and often stated belief that the R9 is the finest pocket pistol yet designed. Permit me also to state again for the record that I am one who never saw a handgun which he didn't like. With all of that said, and with all best wishes for success to the Boberg organization (we need all the help we can get in preserving the Second Amendment), permit me to anwer strictly from my personal perspective the question posed by the title of this thread:
"Different."
Aesthetics being a very personal matter, I shall refrain from commenting on the two handguns in that regard other than to note that I find the R9 design to be a masterful blend of both form and function resulting in something that is both pleasing to the eye and comforting to the soul. 8)
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Richard,
Well stated and I agree 100%.
At one point I thought I wanted a Boberg, and won't say I will never have one but I will not be a first responder. ;D
After trying to find a major worth while advantage of the Boberg over the Pup, I can't. It's different but I don't see better.
It reminds me of the Beretta Px4 Storm Type F Sub-Compact.
It is not as good looking as the pup to me.
I wish them all the best with sales and am sure they will sell well.
I'm not much for refraining from commenting. ;D
John
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I can't wait to get one! ;D
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That's why I stepping out of the line. ;D ;D
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You know you want one! ;D
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I did until I couldn't answer the question WHY. I weighs more than the R9, I don't care that it fires +P ammo and it is not as pleasing to my eye, and I don't need another 9mm that too heavy for my pocket. :'(
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I understand! ;D
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Sounds like it may be getting close to release.
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I'm thinking the preorder could be anytime now!
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but, it's easy to get confused with "I'll carry this one (my new "Bad Guy Super Gun") today...'cause I got my new holster and ...whatever. - hedrok
I think guns like cars, have for different people varying degrees of emotional or psychological involvement
I’ve heard people say that a gun is just a tool – that’s it. But it’s not that way for all people. I am not at all emotionally attached to my microwave oven, clothes dryer or cordless drill. They are all just tools – supposedly like my guns and my car.
Cars are a good example – at their base level they are a transportation device and people shouldn’t be any more attached to them than the owner of a trucking company is attached to any of the trucks in his fleet or the owner of a limo service is attached to any particular vehicle in his or her fleet.
But people are attached to their cars and their decision to purchase their car had an emotional and ego component.
I think it’s the same way for a lot of gun owners.
I can see why you’d have a large collection of range guns, - They fun! I own a TEC-9M. It’s fun to shoot at the range. It’s a curious weapon to have and people at the range like to look at it. But until zombiepocalypse happens, it has zero utility value. It really has almost zero practical for me. From a practical standpoint, I can’t see why someone would rotate through a bunch of carry guns. Any training time you put in on one pistol takes away training time with another pistol. I think the general consensus is, find a gun for carry, train with it and stick with it. I think having a bunch of guns for carry is less about “tuning” your carry for any particular situation and more about just satisfying the itch to handle different guns. It’s not practical, it’s just either emotionally satisfying or it’s gratifying for the ego.
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What is your definition of "a bunch of carry guns"?
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First of all the Boberg is more than just different.
It has a longer barrel length that the R-9 and at these shorter barrel lengths - that is significant.
There seem to be endless posts on this forum about "which ammo is best in my R-9?" And "Is the 115gr better than the 124gr?" And when you go out and look at the test data - you can't even find people who test out of a 3" or less than 3" barrell. So you sort of have to think - if you come across a test with a 3.4" barrel and it's at a certain velocity with certain penetration and expansion characteristics, you're going to get less impressive performance out of that round from a 2.9" barrel. I'm just saying that the difference between a 3.35" barrel and a 2.9" barrel is significant - the difference between Boberg's design and the R-9 is not just cosmetic. A longer barrel in an overall smaller profile - if it functions, is superior.
The second thing is, if you look at the ballistics tests, the differences between standard and +P loads is significant. If we just stay with the Gold Dot which the Rohrbaugh seems to love so much...
Speer 9mm 124 grain Gold Dot JHP +P:
3.4" barrel 1155 fps, penetration - 13.2" expansion - 0.62"
Speer 9mm 124 grain Gold Dot JHP:
3.4" barrel 1068 fps, penetration - 12.6" expansion - 0.59"
So the ability to fire +P ammon is significant even within the same brand of ammo.
Another point is that there are just a whole lot of bullets that the Boberg would be able to fire that the Rohrbaugh cannot. I think that's significant also.
Keeping in mind that Rohrbaugh has already come up with a functioning gun that is in production and has made it to the hands of consumers.
In some ways I feel this thread is not fair to Rohrbaugh... I mean almost everything we say about the Xr9s is hypothetical... If it does this if it does that that, if it feeds reliably, etc, etc...
But in the context of what was asked in the OP... if the Boberg makes it out of the factory, barring quality issues, I think it's not just different, it will be better.
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The Boberg is still 17.5 oz with an empty mag now add 8 rounds of ammo, can you say suspenders. that's more weight than I want in a pocket pistol.
If the Boberg needs to be carried IWB or OWB then there are a lot of better choices with higher capacity or larger calibers.
It is different but for me thats all it has going for it.
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Well the the R9 is 13.5 ounces, the Boberg if it goes to production will be 17.5 ounces. I thought, "4 onces is not gonna make my pants fall down."
So I measured out 13 oz of change, and I have an ammo wallet and I put 7 rounds of 124gr Nyclad in it. Altogether it weighed about 18oz, just a tiny bit more than a Boberg will wiegh empty.
And I walked around with 18 oz and I don't think it's that noticable. And I didn't think that another 4 oz would be noticable either, but it was. Carrying 18oz in my pocket is not a big deal but for some reason - for me anyway, 22oz starts to be bothersome. It's not a back breaker, it's not like I wouldn't be able to deal with it for the sake of being prepared. But 18oz is nicer.
To each his own pantalones !
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Whatever happened to the Boberg? The announcement about the possibility of taking orders, with full payment, is dated 2009!!! Right now, the website reads "available soon".
Is the Boberg EVER going to go into production? I don't care for the shorty but I would like to see the model that actually has a barrel extending beyond the trigger guard.
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I agree ACP, especially on a gun that small. That is just asking for trouble.
Even if you are not a proponent of placing a support finger on the trigger gaurd. You need somewhere to park you support hand/fingers. And that triggerguard is just too close to the barrel.
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That was my issue with it from the start. I think some people are starting to loose interest with the prolonged launch. ::)
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I'll have to say, I'm in that catagory.
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As stated before, bringing a new gun to market is not as easy as the producers think. Just ask these folks who thought theirs were to be at market anywhere from the last 1- 3 yearsish.
Vltor's Bren Ten
The New Merwin Hulbert
The New Auto Mag
Those are just what comes to mind off the top of my head.
The new Baby Brownings finally came to market - but why?
At $900 start and it goes up from there.
To me the SeeCamp make those obsolete- and a better, more reliable gun to boot.
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Thanks for the response(s). My guess is that Boberg may have financial problems. Bear in mind that this is NOT personal nor is any knowledge implied. It is sheer conjecture on my part.
However, in this economy with banks not lending money, the absence of revenue to offset start up costs would be difficult, at best.
Hope I am wrong; I want Boberg to succeed.
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I know it has to be tough bringing forth a new gun and certainly am going to wish Boberg the best, for sure!
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I believe that you are correct ACP, money is usually the problem. A good indicator is when they ask for money up front.
I got burned in the 80's putting money down on an AR desigined 12 ga. It just seems only recently a few civilian models made it to market at scalper's prices.
Now, I don't buy until it hits the market.
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I have no clue as to what the hold up is, and can't even venture a guess.