Author Topic: R9 "Break-in" Certification  (Read 6311 times)

Offline LeonB570

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R9 "Break-in" Certification
« on: December 13, 2005, 09:35:29 AM »
Hi everybody,

I would like to see an "add-on" to the Rohrbaugh R9 purchase price, of a "reliability certification" for the R9 made by a gunsmith, or group of gunsmiths, approved by the Rohrbaughs.  The certification would consist of the statement that 50 rounds of a good ammo (say, Speer Gol Dot 115 gr.) where run through the R9 with no failures-to-fire or failures-to-eject.  If failures were encountered, the gunsmith would work on the gun until the 50 successes in a row were achieved.

The ammo and the 50 rounds were selected arbitrarily by me.  Other ammo and/or number of successive perfect shots might be selected differently after further consideration.

Some of you enthusiasts like do do this sort of gunsmithing yourselves, so this "reliability certification" would not be for everyone.  That's fine.  But for those of us with limited time or range access (or terrible winter weather), we could pay maybe a $100 and get it done by somebody approved by Rohrbaugh.  

I recerived my R9 about a month ago, but was delayed in test firing it by my wife having an operation.  I finally was able to get out to the range last Sunday, in quite cold weather (Wyoming in December!) and squeeze off 15 rounds of Speer Gold Dot 115 gr. with 2 failures to eject.

Now I am faced with problems!  I have to have reliability in any gun I carry.  Various "fixes" have been suggested on this forum.
(1) Break-in the gun with 50 or a 100 rounds.
(2) Take the gun apart and put on special lubricants.
(3)  Get a stronger ejection spring
(4)  Work on a "stronger hand hold" on the gun to avoid "limp wrist"
(5)  etc.

The difficulty is that I don't have time for all this, nor am I inclined to do it for a gun that cost $1000.  I want a gun that goes bang when I pull the trigger.  We'll have lousy weather here in Wyoming for about the next four months, and I couldn't really get at an energetic test program until the weather on the outdoor range improves in the Spring.  I hate the thought of throwing the R9 into a drawer until then.

I am happy to pay for a quality-control "burn-in" as is done with critical electronic equipment. A certain percentage of electronic devices fail almost immediately.  The burn-in eliminates those with this short-life mode of failure, and the survivors generally have a much longer dependable life.  A dependable carry" gun is at least as important as a dependable electronic device.

I am a professional statistician and am familiar with quality control procedures.  Quality control is an important part of producing dependable mechanisms, but it does have its costs.  For those who would rather do it themselves, that's fine.  But it has to be done somewhere.

The R9 is beginning to acquire a reputation for "occasional lemons".  The gun is a quality object.  Well made, accurate with a smooth trigger pull, small for pocket carry.  I loved everything about it when I shot my 15 rounds, EXCEPT the undependability.
I would be most happy to pay for someone to certify that dependability with an appropriate test program.

Best Wishes,
Leon Borgman
  

Offline Michigunner

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Re: R9 "Break-in" Certification
« Reply #1 on: December 13, 2005, 10:40:08 AM »
The problem is that some pistols are reported to operate normally for so many rounds, and then misbehave, despite adherance to factory recommendations.

The good news is that most pistols seem to be flawless, otherwise I expect owners would overwhelm the board reporting defects.



« Last Edit: December 13, 2005, 01:48:12 PM by Michigunner »

Offline LeonB570

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Re: R9 "Break-in" Certification
« Reply #2 on: December 13, 2005, 01:22:00 PM »
No quality control guarantees against eventual failure.  The "burn in" type just eliminates or fixes "short-life" modes of failure that happen immediately.

When I shot my 15 rounds on Sunday, there was a failure-to-eject on the first round!  That sort of thing would be caught with a burn in.  Also, you would be assured that someone got 50 successive good shots off in succession.  If it fails with you, it probably means a shooting error on your part, and you can go to work on that with some clear indication that you are attacking the problem correctly.

Best Wishes,
Leon

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Re: R9 "Break-in" Certification
« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2005, 02:01:00 PM »
Good idea, Leon; why don't you write a letter to Rohrbaugh?

Offline RJ HEDLEY

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Re: R9 "Break-in" Certification
« Reply #4 on: December 13, 2005, 02:33:33 PM »
I thought I had it all worked out after I  bought  a PPKs that had a LaRocca Reliability Package.  The gun would not chamber the first round from a full or down loaded Mag.  This was with four premium brands of ammo.

The gun was beautiful but would not work,  I just sold it *as is* to someone else to work out.  
A revolver is your safe bet.  It a shame there isn't any small enough to carry.  NAA is working on one, a 5 shot 32 mag..  SA..    If some Gun maker would come up with a DA revolver smaller than a J frame..they would sell thousands of them..
RJ=


 
 

Offline Brenden

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Re: R9 "Break-in" Certification
« Reply #5 on: December 13, 2005, 07:52:09 PM »
LeonB570,

I want to welcome you to the forum..

I understand your reasoning in having "someone" break in before buying..I always figured that would be a "used" gun,but I understand the thought..

With anything-it may take a bit of time for anything mechanical to work as it should..Guns are no exception I would think..

You have shot 15 rounds with 2 FTEs..

May take a few more to see what your gun likes..Considering it did not have the "Reliability Certification" that you mentioned.. ;)

I am sure a Glock will go bang evertime-right from the start..
Put it in the small super compact package that the pup is and I will buy more than 1..As I have have with the Rohrbaugh.. ;D

I carry a G26 on a regular basis and it is a workhorse..But no comparison to the pocket pup.. :)

Please shoot a few more rounds and see whats what,I agree it is cold to do so-I live in Northern Michigan..But to carry-we must make sure of our own "shootibility" of the pup..

The pup will take care of you if you take care of the pup..

Brenden
NRA Life Patron Member
GOA
Molon Labe

Offline LeonB570

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Re: R9 "Break-in" Certification
« Reply #6 on: December 15, 2005, 01:21:43 PM »
Hi Everybody,

There is a good discussion of the limp-wrist problem, what to do about it, and why it causes FTE and FTF on packing.org

http://www.packing.org/community/firearms/listview/6391

I am going to try some of those ideas and see if it helps my R9s cycle more successfully.  Do any of you have any further suggestions of what I should try, just in case the cause of my unreliability was "limpwristing"?

Best Wishes,
Leon

Offline ezeg

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Re: R9 "Break-in" Certification
« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2005, 01:30:15 PM »
Another site about limp-wristing (complete with video);

http://www.ktrange.com/articles/a8/a8.html

Offline alfonso2501

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Re: R9 "Break-in" Certification
« Reply #8 on: December 26, 2005, 03:38:53 AM »
Interesting concept Leon, do you or anyone else know if other firearm manufactures do this?

Offline LeonB570

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Re: R9 "Break-in" Certification
« Reply #9 on: December 26, 2005, 11:10:35 PM »
Happy New Year!

I got out to the range today and put 10 more rounds through the R9s.  I tried very hard to keep my wrists firm and locked.  There were stil 3 FTE in the 10 rounds.  

When I talked to them at Rohrbaugh, they very kindly offerred to work the R9 over rather completely, if the solid wrist didn't fix the problem.  I think I'll take them up on that and see if they can adjust it so that it ejects more easily.

On a bright note, a new Taurus 32 H&R mag (J-frame, 2" barrel) I acquired worked beautifully through 12 rounds, as did a Russian IJ-70 Makarov that I have owned for some time but hadn't shot.  The Mak was the most accurate, but the Taurus was close behind and was a pleasure to shoot.  

 
 RJ Hedley suggested that I try a small revolver and He was
right.  It worked better for me.  Thanks RJ!

I'll keep trying on the R9 to see if I can get it to cycle right.  If it doesn't work out for me, I guess that I will sell it and convert to small revolvers.  NAA is working on a 32 H&R mag little revolver that is expected out next year.  That should be neat.

  I have a NAA Blackwidow (2" barrel) and a mini-Master (5" barrel), both in 22 mag.  They are fun to shoot, but somewhat light in caliber for defensive carry.

Best Wishes,
Leon
 

Offline FB3

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Re: R9 "Break-in" Certification
« Reply #10 on: December 28, 2005, 08:58:06 PM »
I have no experience with the Rohrbaugh as of this time, but I will be the proud owner of a new R9s tomorrow.

A failure to eject in a 1911 type pistol is almost always an extractor problem.  Either improper tension or a rough or mishaped extractor hook.  Don't know if this is relevant to the R9 pistols, but it is usually the culprit in other autos.
Experience is the best teacher, but the tuition is awfully high

Offline Billmack

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Re: R9 "Break-in" Certification
« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2006, 11:50:10 AM »
My thoughts on the subject of a second - third party “break-in certification”:

Any new firearm sold, should perform flawlessly right of the box when used according to the manufactures recommendations / instructions. (Ammo, lube, etc..)

The exception would be a custom match grade firearm. One built with extremely tight tolerances. Such as a 1911-A1 built for competition


Quality control is paramount where firearms for personal protection are concerned. I don’t think anyone would dispute this.

For your own piece of mind, I can’t over emphasis the importance of on going training with your carry firearm. If you’re going to carry for personal protection, handling & firing your firearm has to be second nature.

Additionally, with regular live fire training, damaged parts, such as a bad magazine can be identified and rectified.

I look forward to your feedback on this subject.

Bill




















« Last Edit: March 02, 2006, 03:22:01 PM by Billmack »

Offline Paveway

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Re: R9 "Break-in" Certification
« Reply #12 on: October 14, 2006, 12:31:04 AM »
SHOOT THE GUN.

You have to break it in. You need to put rounds through it.

We are dealing with a newly minted finely machined device that needs to be fired to get the components to mate properly.

I think the shooting community has been spoiled by the "Glock syndrome" . Glock, Sig and HK make excellent pieces, and they run right out of the box. You can thank modern computerized metallurgy/plastic technology and manufacturing for that.

However, there are Kimber, Springfield, Colt etc 1911 owners that complain that their guns dont run right out of the box. It's a 1911 for goodness sakes! You have to shoot them to get 'em bedded in. It is a design almost 100 YEARS old!!! But it is a true tribute to the genius of Mr. Browning.

The R9 is a new custom made design. I tend to think that it is in the lines of the 1911 of design in that there is a break-in period. Designed and built by a party of 2 instead of a General Motors sized army of engineers and technicians at Glock, Sig, HK, etc. When you think of Rohrbaugh, think Wright Brothers, Henry Ford, Oskar Barnack (Leica camera) etc. It's amazing that 2 brothers could come up with this design and serve notice to the gun community in this day and age.

OK, rant off.......