The Rohrbaugh Forum

Rohrbaugh Products and Accessories => Rohrbaugh Wish List => Topic started by: harrydog on May 22, 2004, 08:52:40 PM

Title: all stainless version
Post by: harrydog on May 22, 2004, 08:52:40 PM
Call me crazy, but I'd like an all 17-4 stainless version. Heavier, yes, but still pretty darn light compared to most everything else. More durable and a bit better in the recoil department as well.
At one point Eric assured me they would be producing one, but the last time I spoke to him, he said he doubted it.
 :(
Title: Re: all stainless version
Post by: GeorgeH on May 24, 2004, 01:12:06 AM
After a while, after profits start to come in, and costs stabilize, maybe Rohrbaugh could come out with an all steel version as sort of a training gun.

For years I knew of a cop who always carried a S&W airweight J frame off-duty, but practiced with the all steel version.

Likewise, a 22 LR version would also serve that purpose. But one step at a time.

I would guess that the debt service currently facing Rohrbaugh must be unreal, just like the gun. Let them try and make a go of the venture first.
Title: Re: all stainless version
Post by: Mr_Jody_Hudson on May 27, 2004, 01:49:07 AM
I agree.  Let's help these folks get some increased sales and profits.  Time IS money so if we can speed the received funds, to them, for sales a bit, that should help some.

I have put a link from my home page to this site since my web site is frequently relisted and reindexed by the search engines and I get about 4,000 visitors a day to my site.

Hopefully if we link this site to other popular boards and sites, we will get more traffic here and this site and our postings will help Rohrbaugh more profitable, more quickly.

Title: Re: all stainless version
Post by: DDGator on May 27, 2004, 02:04:48 PM
I agree -- let me know where you think we should be linked from.  I this forum is appearing on Google searches now.  

Jody -- I appreciate the link.

Title: Re: all stainless version
Post by: R9SCarry on May 27, 2004, 04:05:28 PM
For useage I anticipate ... I doubt I'd really need an all S/S ...  tho I'd like to get the feel of one if it existed.

Hey!  Hi Jody ... didn't see you come on in ... glad to see ya here.  Welcome (this is of course P95, but seemed more fitting to be R9S here!! )   :)
Title: Re: all stainless version
Post by: Mr_Jody_Hudson on May 29, 2004, 08:34:51 PM
You are most welcome Duane.

I was right behind you Chris.

It is GOOD to have this forum! ;D
Title: Re: all stainless version
Post by: pocketman on May 30, 2004, 08:47:45 AM
When I carried a Colt pony pocketlite I also had a stainless one that I used for range pratice, I mostly did this because Colt does not make the pony anymore and there a bit difficult to find and I did not want to were out the pocketlite.

I ended up selling the stainless version though, I just never shot it enough and found my self only putting a box or two through the pony every month or so....  
Title: Re: all stainless version
Post by: Fud on July 18, 2004, 06:37:51 AM
I also think that a stainless steel model would be a good idea not only for strength and durability but also to help tame recoil.

I own an alloy 12oz snubbie but I carry the 24oz all-steel snubbie because I can shoot it more accurately because the added weight helps to cushion recoil.

I would do the same with the R9.
Title: Re: all stainless version
Post by: Mr_Jody_Hudson on July 18, 2004, 04:24:58 PM
Hi FUD,

It may tame the recoil, however I don't find the existing recoil objectionable at all.  The weight, I would not want to increase...  ;D
Title: Re: all stainless version
Post by: Fud on July 20, 2004, 01:59:22 PM
Well, Mr_Jody_Hudson, it appears that you're getting your wish. Just spoke to Eric and there are DEFINITELY NO PLANS to make an all steel model.
Title: Re: all stainless version
Post by: court_officer on August 31, 2004, 07:35:42 PM
I like light weapons that are "carried a lot and shot a little" I would like to see a titanium/scandium version of this. I have a 12 oz S&W snub in .357 Magnum and have no problem with recoil. Is there any possibility in the future for this? ??? :) :)
[glb][/glb][glb][/glb]
Title: Re: all stainless version
Post by: R9SCarry on August 31, 2004, 11:15:33 PM
court_officer .... welcome!  :)

I doubt this would be any more likely than a full S?S version ... well, not for a few eons!

I rather doubt this is the sort of gun that'd really lend itself to severe lightening . in part I think it would defeat the object somewhat.

I have shot the ultra lightweight revo's and yes, they are manageable .. certainly in the ''carry a lot - shoot relatively little'' ..... but that said ... I have not become a fan of them .... just don't feel right! :P
Title: Re: all stainless version
Post by: doubletapMike on July 07, 2005, 03:15:30 PM
I agree with Chris on this. On top of which, lighter weight in this size and caliber could make trying to reacquire the sight picture very difficult and recoil unpleasant.

doubletapMike
Title: Re: all stainless version
Post by: Larry on July 14, 2005, 12:21:48 AM
Having spoken to Maria today, I mentioned that as well as myself, there were a few others on the Forum who expressed interest in an all stainless R9.  I related that I probably would want an alloy frame if the gun was currently all stainless.  It was mutually understood that this would be way up the line if it did in fact ever happen.  Custom serial numbers she said would slow down the already backlogged production.Therefore, that service is temporarily suspended.
Basically I agree with Fudster on ultra light guns.  I had a Smith 642 and a much heavier Detective Special. The Colt was far and away a better gun.  I obtained that one used, but think it must of undergone some action work. It also had what looked like the Royal Blue finish. Wish I still had it.  Bottom line though is that I carried the 642 much more.
Title: Re: all stainless version
Post by: alfonso2501 on July 14, 2005, 08:17:27 PM
Hi all! How much stronger & heaver do you suppose a 17-4 stainless version would be compared to the aluminum alloy (*edit* 7075 aircraft aluminum?) they use now? Would you think this would allow the Rohrbaugh to shoot +P ammo? If so I’d say I’m all for it!
Title: Re: all stainless version
Post by: PsychoSword on July 22, 2005, 02:05:27 AM
I would like nothing more than to see an all stainless version of the Rohrbaugh. The only reason I haven't bought one, is because I don't really like aluminum alloy frames. I would buy an all stainless Rohrbaugh R9s in a heartbeat. I pocket carry a Kahr MK9 and a spare 7 round clip weakside daily, so I hardly imagine how the tiny bit of weight increase of a fully stainless Rohrbaugh would not be a good thing. And yes, I would like to be able to shoot +P.

If it was all stainless you could shoot +P 124gr Gold Dots or +P 124gr. Rangers, that would also be so sweet.
Title: Re: all stainless version
Post by: R9SCarry on July 22, 2005, 04:34:41 PM
Welcome PS :) - I too would consider a stainless as I am another who would not object to the weight increase.  

As said before tho - ain't gonna happen I doubt - not in a long time if ever.  I do accept the std pressure limitation - +P ain't really that much more ''up there'' plus, once broke in I regard my R9 as carry a lot, shoot a little (relatively).
Title: Re: all stainless version
Post by: Mr_Jody_Hudson on July 22, 2005, 04:58:16 PM
Per my chrono, in shorter barrels such as the Rohrbaugh - there is no appreciable difference in speed of the bullet from standard to +p and ++p and +p+.

There is however, a HUGE difference in the size and brightness of muzzle flash!!!!  The standard is therefore better anyway IMHO. ;D
Title: Re: all stainless version
Post by: theirishguard on July 22, 2005, 06:38:35 PM
PsychoSword, I guess you are coming from the position that stainless steel would be stronger than an alloy frame. However, most new guns with alloy frames will take thousands of rounds of use without any problem. Eric Rohrbaugh has over 5,000 rounds thru his R9.  The only thing one gets with +P ammo in a little gun is more flash and recoil.   Tom
Title: Re: all stainless version
Post by: Brenden on July 24, 2005, 12:14:02 AM
Quote
I would like nothing more than to see an all stainless version of the Rohrbaugh. The only reason I haven't bought one, is because I don't really like aluminum alloy frames. I would buy an all stainless Rohrbaugh R9s in a heartbeat. I pocket carry a Kahr MK9 and a spare 7 round clip weakside daily, so I hardly imagine how the tiny bit of weight increase of a fully stainless Rohrbaugh would not be a good thing. And yes, I would like to be able to shoot +P.

If it was all stainless you could shoot +P 124gr Gold Dots or +P 124gr. Rangers, that would also be so sweet.

PsychoSword..
         Welcome to the board.. :)
The wt. difference would probably not be a problem..I just think that out of the Pup that "standard" 9mm is the way to go!!  ;)
Title: Re: all stainless version
Post by: Richard S on July 26, 2005, 10:58:06 PM
PS:

Welsome to the Forum.  

Although in most other matters I am a "stainless steel" advocate, with regard to the Rohrbaugh I agree with the views expressed just above by Chris, Jody, Tom, and Brenden.
Title: Re: all stainless version
Post by: PsychoSword on August 05, 2005, 02:18:26 AM
I understand where you guys are coming from. It's more my personal prejudice against anything other than stainless or carbon steel more than anything. That's just me, I'd rather have a stainless frame shooting standard pressure than an aluminum one.

Regarding the +P out of a short barrel, the chrono numbers I've seen myself from my Kahr MK9's 3" barrel will dispute what has been said in this thread. There is definately still a difference between standard pressure, +P, NATO and +P+ that I have verified myself.

Now, regarding the Rohrbaugh, for some reason the velocity numbers I've seen online are less than what I've seen and personally chrono'd from my Kahr. I don't know if perhaps +P would just be less of a benefit in a Rohrbaugh, than other guns will similiar barrel lengths. That may be so. I would be fairly happy shooting standard pressure loads out of a stainless steel framed Rohrbaugh, but I would prefer the +P capability.
Title: Re: all stainless version
Post by: Slowhand on September 16, 2005, 12:38:24 PM
Given that my EDC is a 1911/.45 of one form or another, and the R9 is my BUG, I personally prefer the gun as-is.  An all-steel 1911 is heavy enough.  I guess all stainless would be good if it was your primary carry, though.  The only time my R9 is my primary is if I have to run to the store and I don't want to suit up with the "bat belt".
Title: Re: all stainless version
Post by: sslater on September 16, 2005, 01:03:30 PM
I, too, like the weight of the current R9, and wouldn't want to lug around another 4 to 6 ounces in a pocket pistol.

But I am concerned a bit with the wear my gun and others are showing in the frame area above the takedown pin.  I wonder if Rohrbaugh could design a pair of 4140 or 4340 steel inserts for the barrel to ride against? The weight increase would be negligible, and frame machining wouldn't greatly affected.  If I still had access to a machine shop, I'd probably be cutting metal...
Title: Re: all stainless version
Post by: Slowhand on September 16, 2005, 04:16:22 PM
I have the same wear pattern.  I will continue to monitor it.  Currently, I lube the gun with Militec oil everywhere and Protec grease (same as Wilson Ultima Lube) on the high wear points.  I have a feeling that the wear will proceed to a point, and then stop.  I don't think that it's that big a deal right now, as I don't plan on putting much ammo through the piece, but that said, I don't want the gun to beat itself to death, either.
Title: Re: all stainless version
Post by: R9SCarry on September 16, 2005, 09:25:08 PM
Quote
[size=13]I have a feeling that the wear will proceed to a point, and then stop.[/size]

My thinking exactly.  I have not inspected Eric's ''old faithful'' - his demo R9 with in excess of 5,000 rounds thru it but he told me that was still in great shape.

I think the process is self limiting and the area that gets a bit marred is IMO of no major structural significance regarding compromizing the gun's function.

If tho I saw major deterioration of something like the slide/frame rails, then I might be concerned. ;)
Title: Re: all stainless version
Post by: PsychoSword on October 24, 2005, 05:51:09 PM
Speer Gold Dot 124gr. +P designed for short barrels.

http://www.speer-bullets.com/default.asp?s1=4&s2=3

Are some of you guys still dead set against choice now?
Title: Re: all stainless version
Post by: PsychoSword on October 24, 2005, 05:53:11 PM
Quote
Per my chrono, in shorter barrels such as the Rohrbaugh - there is no appreciable difference in speed of the bullet from standard to +p and ++p and +p+.

There is however, a HUGE difference in the size and brightness of muzzle flash!!!!  The standard is therefore better anyway IMHO. ;D

My experience has been the opposite. You know people used to make the same arguement against .380 vs. 9mm in short barreled guns. You still hear it occasionally.
Title: Re: all stainless version
Post by: IDM on December 29, 2007, 03:49:19 PM
Well call me crazy but Im working on getting a model of the frame into my computer now. Ill see what it might take to make a stainless one. Ill try it in alu first to get my tooling just right. It may be a long project. Im just a one man shop with little resources. But if Some of you guys would buy my grips I may find some more time and money to start on this new project!!lol ;D
ill post a pic or 2 later.
Bryce
Title: Re: all stainless version
Post by: riffraff on December 29, 2007, 06:08:15 PM
Bryce,

You constantly amaze me.  I admire anyone contemplating the task you are considering.

One word of WARNING.  Before you start cranking out frames you had better check in to the proper license from the BATF.

Always cover your a**.  The gubmint is not there to help you.

And by the way.  IF you can produce a stainless frame for the R9 we will probably do some more business.  But give the license thing some thought.  If you make frames they will have to be treated as a regular handgun.  All shipping will have to go through an FFL to the purchaser.  Paperwork will be the same as buying a handgun.

You CAN make a frame for YOURSELF and it is completly legal so you can work on a prototype with no worries.  The safe thing to do is to place your SS# on the frame.  That is not a requirememt but have heard from others who have made their own rifles that it is the safe thing to do.  It will be hard to explain to a Police Officer who can't possibly know all the in and outs of guns why there are no numbers on the gun you are carrying.  If you make 3 or 4 prototypes I would destroy all but one to be on the safe side.

I don't want anything bad to happen to ya buddy.

Mike
Title: Re: all stainless version
Post by: Novanglus on December 29, 2007, 06:09:18 PM
IDM: Are you still planning on fabricating some contoured aluminum grips?
Title: Re: all stainless version
Post by: IDM on December 29, 2007, 10:38:31 PM
Thanks for the info.
I have done some research into this. To the point that I have the paperwork to fill out and send in to become a ligit firearms mfg. I just hav not done so at this point. I co worker and I (back when I worked for General Atomics Aeronatical systems) were going to produce lowers for AR'15's but it was in California back when things were realy up in the air about firearms so we didnt do it.
It will be a longer process soI will if it happens get my sh*t in order.lol ;D
Thanks for the concern and info!!
Bryce
Title: Re: all stainless version
Post by: IDM on December 29, 2007, 10:41:18 PM
Yes
Thay are in the works too.Im stuck at hame for a few days with my boys 14 months and 4 years. So I have no shop time and alot of compter time.!! So I started the reciver. Ive got about 60 hrs in it now and Im 80% done at this point.

Thanks
Bryce
Title: Re: all stainless version
Post by: IDM on December 30, 2007, 04:19:05 AM
Ok here it is!! :D :D
Most of the details are there. Not all!!
From this model I can give a 99% accurate weight calculation.
So we will know total how much more a stainless model will be, over the  alu.!! 8)
From this point I could send it out to a rapid prototype shop and get one in plastic for a check fit part. then if I had the money, I would  get it cast in Tie or SS. If only!!
Thanks for looking and your input!!
Bryce
(http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd131/IDMLLC/reciver1.jpg)
(http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd131/IDMLLC/reciver1hidline.jpg)
Title: Re: all stainless version
Post by: riffraff on December 30, 2007, 10:57:01 AM
Bryce,

Here is another thought.

If you perfect a stainlesss steel frame you might be able to sell it to Rohrbaugh exclusivly.  There would be more money in it for you that way because of increased sales and the Rohrbaugh site gets a lot more traffic and therefore more potential sales.  You might talk to the R bros and maybe they could help with seed money for development but I am sure they would want an exclusive for your frame for that.  The R bros seem to farm out quite a bit of the work for the R9 so they may be more than happy to contract for your SS frame too.

Mike
Title: Re: all stainless version
Post by: DDGator on January 02, 2008, 08:56:24 PM
Bryce,

I think there are a wealth of legal issues here, including patent infringement on the Rohrbaugh proprietary design.  I would suggest you talk to Karl Rohrbaugh before going any further.

Thanks.

Title: Re: all stainless version
Post by: riffraff on January 02, 2008, 09:56:58 PM
Duane,

Thanks for bringing up an issue I had not thought of and also thanks for potentially throwing a 'wet blanket' on the idea.

Bryce,  Duane is right though.  I had not even thought of the possible patent infringement although I got a feeling that it would not be patent infringement as I know I have seen metal lowers for Glocks advertised in a gun mag and I bet they don't have Glock's 'blessing' to produce these either.

What about all the makers of AR 15 lowers too.

Even though I may not like it, information is better than no information.  Thank You Duane.

Duane, you might want to shoot Bryce a PM to be sure he gets the info.  He really should be made aware even though he a pretty smart guy and has been around the block in the manufacturing business.

Mike
Title: Re: all stainless version
Post by: Richard S on January 03, 2008, 11:37:10 AM
Quote
Bryce,

I think there are a wealth of legal issues here, including patent infringement on the Rohrbaugh proprietary design.  I would suggest you talk to Karl Rohrbaugh before going any further.

Thanks.


Verily!
Title: Re: all stainless version
Post by: riffraff on January 03, 2008, 06:14:24 PM
Yeah,

I understand about all the blood, sweat and tears put into a product and then someone builds it better but this 'other than aluminum lower' issue has been out there for the Rbros to take notice of for a loooong time.  I hope Bryce markets a SS lower just to rattle some cages.  Get off your a***s, give the customer what they want or somebody else will give the customer what they want.

It is called free market and Capitalism.  Funny how some people claim to love the American system untill someone else 'steps on their toes'.

I know this post is going to read a lot different than I intend.  It is intended to make the readers think.  It is not intended to intentionally, purposley p*** people off.

Just think about it.

Mike
Title: Re: all stainless version
Post by: DDGator on January 03, 2008, 06:37:37 PM
Well,

As for the Glock and AR parts (or 1911 for that matter), the patent protection period has expired.  You get 20 years max, then the protection lapses.  Glocks, ARs and 1911s, at least in their basic forms, are too old for protection.

As for RiffRaff's point, I disagree.  When someone puts their hard work, innovation and money into coming up with a patentable design, they should get the 20 years of profit off of it.  That has been part of the free market system for a long time.  Why should I bother to develop a product if someone else can swoop in, mic my parts, and start producing knock-offs?

If Bryce has done something innovative and incorporated the Rohrbaugh protected design, then he should negotiate to license the design and pay an appropriate royalty.  If he is just using a CAD program to reverse engineer a design and produce it in a different material...then I am not sure that he really has anything to sell.  No disrespect intended to Bryce.  Producing a stainless R-9 is certainly not beyond Karl's ability --in fact, they already did it once.  ;)

This is a pretty clear cut situation.  The only cage that will get rattled is Bryce's if he is infringing.   :o

Perhaps in 2025 everyone will start manufacturing Rohrbaugh knock-offs.   ;D
Title: Re: all stainless version
Post by: riffraff on January 03, 2008, 07:46:13 PM
Duane,

I understand your points but I rebutt with this thought.

If everyone else can do it so easily, why can't Rohrbaugh do it just as easily RIGHT NOW?  Not well, yeah we are working on it and then it turns out to be years later.  I ain't got that many years left.  SNAP it up Rohrbaugh.

Mike
Title: Re: all stainless version
Post by: IDM on January 04, 2008, 01:25:28 AM
Hey
I was just throwing out a idea of making them to see how much interest there is. And to show that It is not that hard to do such a thing. I am not planning on ripping off Karl. I have had a few ideas through the years that other have taken from me. so I've have been on both sides.  I also have done a bit of patent work for my self and clients, so I can speak with a little knowledge. I was hoping someone might have the Patent info for the R9. The only info I could find is for "Handgun and method of operating handgun " Pat#6,070,512 In this pat there is a vary slight resemblance of a r9. Nothing is the same. I may be missing something but It looks as if the original design was tossed out.  ??? Dose anyone know if Karl has a agreement with Seecamp?? Because it looks to me as if the R9 and seecamp were the same design.
Here is the seacamp trigger pat:http://patimg1.uspto.gov/.piw?Docid=04428138&homeurl=http%3A%2F%2Fpatft.uspto.gov%2Fnetacgi%2Fnph-Parser%3FSect2%3DPTO1%2526Sect2%3DHITOFF%2526p%3D1%2526u%3D%25252Fnetahtml%25252FPTO%25252Fsearch-bool.html%2526r%3D1%2526f%3DG%2526l%3D50%2526d%3DPALL%2526S1%3D4428138.PN.%2526OS%3DPN%2F4428138%2526RS%3DPN%2F4428138&PageNum=&Rtype=&SectionNum=&idkey=NONE&Input=View+first+page


Here is the R9?? pat.http://patimg1.uspto.gov/.piw?Docid=06070512&homeurl=http%3A%2F%2Fpatft.uspto.gov%2Fnetacgi%2Fnph-Parser%3FSect2%3DPTO1%2526Sect2%3DHITOFF%2526p%3D1%2526u%3D%25252Fnetahtml%25252FPTO%25252Fsearch-bool.html%2526r%3D1%2526f%3DG%2526l%3D50%2526d%3DPALL%2526S1%3D6070512.PN.%2526OS%3DPN%2F6070512%2526RS%3DPN%2F6070512&PageNum=&Rtype=&SectionNum=&idkey=NONE&Input=View+first+page

I am plannig on speaking with Karl next week, when they return. I will then see what the deal is.

Heck it may be easier to just reinvent the wheel and come up with a new gun totally!! I know I have the ability and knowledge. Not to mention the equipment!! lol

Legally I know I can make one for myself, and that's what I may end up doing.

I feel for Guy like Karl that I'm sure put allot of time into the design. it's vary impressive to me because He did it with little or no computer design ability. He had to depend on someone else. That can be expensive and time consuming.  With the use of 3D modeling I can do in the computer in a week what use to take month's with R&D and making prototype parts. The last time I spoke to Karl was when I was trying to get the dimensions for the grips. He told me that they didn't have any computer models. Everything is still on paper drawings. He never did get me the info I didn't want to bug him anymore so I just reversed it.

But for now I will just let it be to see what happens. I want to thank you all for you input and look forward from hearing more on this subject.
Thanks
Bryce
Title: Re: all stainless version
Post by: DDGator on January 04, 2008, 01:41:04 AM
riffraff,

Not only can they do it, they have already done it -- years ago.  I held the stanless frame prototype when I visited the factory.  Ultimately, they decided that an alloy frame better met Karl's vision for this gun.

Now, I suppose they are aware of the demand for a stainless frame model.  Frankly, I think the demand is probably a bit over-stated on the forum by the hard-core fans who hang out here.  Ultimately, lighter weight sells more guns across the board.  Its ironic that NAA fans complain the Guardian is a pocket brick and scream for alloy frames!   ;)  I guess the grass is always greener...

Karl wants to make money.  I am sure he will get around to the stainless frame as soon as it is practicable.  Right now he is selling the existing gun as fast as it will go out the door.  He has debts to pay and investors to satisfy.  New stuff, including a stainless frame, will likely come in due course.

Some of us waited years to get this gun to start with -- no reason to start getting impatient now.
Title: Re: all stainless version
Post by: Fud on January 04, 2008, 03:31:23 AM
I'll be honest with ya, I rarely carry my R9 due to accuracy & recoil -- the kick affects my aim. Most of the time I carry my Colt Pocket Nine -- slightly bigger and slightly heavier but those extra few ounces make a BIG difference in recoil translating into better accuracy.

I did carry my R9 on Christmas Eve & New Year's Eve because I needed DEEP concealment but I knew that I would be effective for only about a dozen feet.

When the budget permits, I plan on getting the R380. All other things being equal, the R380 should be a pussycat to shoot and a hit with a .380ACP will do more damage than a miss with a 9mm.

For these reasons, I'm also interested in an all-stainless model. Those few extra ounces should go a long way in taming recoil which, at least for me, translates into better accuracy.
Title: Re: all stainless version
Post by: riffraff on January 04, 2008, 07:40:39 PM
Fud,

In the interem you might want to consider heavier grips to add some weight.  The brass has already been done and a SS set of grips could be made if you are willing to pay the price.  I have found that Bryce(IDM) is very reasonable in his charges even for first run aka the only ones in existance grips like the brass ones, 2 pair, that are probably on their way to me as we speak.

All,

I undestand that the R bros. are working as fast as they can to produce the guns.  That is why I believe that:

If Bryce is willing and able(he does have other commitments like National Defense) and Rohrbaugh is willing, the SS frames could be contracted to Bryce and Rohrbaugh would have the exclusive rights to MARKET them  and EVERYONE should be happy.

Does anyone see anything wrong in my line of thinking?  I really would like to make everyone happy and help make the R9 an even bigger success in the personal defense handgun market which is only going to grow in the future as more and more states enact 'shall issue' conceiled carry permits and more and more people in those states get their license's.

Mike
Title: Re: all stainless version
Post by: tracker on January 04, 2008, 08:01:42 PM
Options and freedom of choice is a great thing but I am with
Duane on this one. This gun will be carried a lot longer than
it will be used in self defense. If that rare moment occurs
the recoil will hardly be noticed because of the adrenalin
rush; conversely, firing 100 rounds in a single range session
can cause problems to some people.

I think Rohrbaugh got it right on the weight issue but like
any other product one does not fit all.    
Title: Re: all stainless version
Post by: IDM on January 04, 2008, 08:45:34 PM
Im looking at it from a usage/wear side. I have two 45cal Ultra kimbers one stanless frame and one alu. The ss one is the one I practice with and have thousands or rounds through, with many many more rounds left in its life. The alu frame is for carry. not shooting alot. The same gose for the R9 Also for the fact that the wear rate on the R9 is much higher than most alu framed gun. Because of the much less surface area to take all the force a 9mm can put on it. This will cause it to wear alot faster than other alu framed guns. With that said I want to go out a shoot the piss out of it I like it so much. But I cant  at $1000 a pup. Bu I am getting another one next week!! ;D
That is my main reson for the ss frame.
If someone wants more weight to the lower half of the gun, I can make them a nice set of Brass Grips!! ;D ;D lol.
Bryce
(http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd131/IDMLLC/100_1684brass.jpg)
Title: Re: all stainless version
Post by: Reinz on January 22, 2008, 05:03:34 AM
Quote
riffraff,

Not only can they do it, they have already done it -- years ago.  I held the stanless frame prototype when I visited the factory.  Ultimately, they decided that an alloy frame better met Karl's vision for this gun.

Now, I suppose they are aware of the demand for a stainless frame model.  Frankly, I think the demand is probably a bit over-stated on the forum by the hard-core fans who hang out here.  Ultimately, lighter weight sells more guns across the board.  Its ironic that NAA fans complain the Guardian is a pocket brick and scream for alloy frames!   ;)  I guess the grass is always greener...

Karl wants to make money.  I am sure he will get around to the stainless frame as soon as it is practicable.  Right now he is selling the existing gun as fast as it will go out the door.  He has debts to pay and investors to satisfy.  New stuff, including a stainless frame, will likely come in due course.

Some of us waited years to get this gun to start with -- no reason to start getting impatient now.


DDGator summed it up well, it's all about business and finding that niche in the market.  Rohrbaugh found it and is TCB.


Reinz
Title: Re: all stainless version
Post by: Reinz on January 22, 2008, 05:13:54 AM
Quote
Duane,

I understand your points but I rebutt with this thought.

If everyone else can do it so easily, why can't Rohrbaugh do it just as easily RIGHT NOW?  Not well, yeah we are working on it and then it turns out to be years later.  I ain't got that many years left.  SNAP it up Rohrbaugh.

Mike


It's not as easy as it sounds.  I'm in manufacturing on a much smaller scale.  What people don't realize when they come up to me with their bright ideas is that I would have to buy more expensive machinery and have to find more hours in the day to work and/or hire more people.  All of which takes capital, that I do not have at the moment.  I.E., I'm not ready for growth right now, or can't handle it.

Some things about your business you just don't really want to discuss with those people that "have all the answers."


Reinz
Title: Re: all stainless version
Post by: harrydog on January 22, 2008, 07:51:49 AM
Quote
Im looking at it from a usage/wear side. I have two 45cal Ultra kimbers one stanless frame and one alu. The ss one is the one I practice with and have thousands or rounds through, with many many more rounds left in its life. The alu frame is for carry. not shooting alot. The same gose for the R9 Also for the fact that the wear rate on the R9 is much higher than most alu framed gun. Because of the much less surface area to take all the force a 9mm can put on it. This will cause it to wear alot faster than other alu framed guns. With that said I want to go out a shoot the piss out of it I like it so much. But I cant  at $1000 a pup. Bu I am getting another one next week!! ;D
That is my main reson for the ss frame.
If someone wants more weight to the lower half of the gun, I can make them a nice set of Brass Grips!! ;D ;D lol.
Bryce
 
I agree. I want a SS version so that I can shoot it a lot. Practice is important, no? The alum version would be for carry only. Makes sense.
I doubt Rohrbaugh will be making a SS version in the foreseeable future, so it would be nice if some arrangement could be worked out with them to sub-contract some SS frames.
On a side note, what would you use to make the frames? 17-4 or 400 series stainless? Machined from bar stock I assume.
I wonder how having them cast in 415 stainless like Seecamps would compare cost-wise? 415 is some really tough stuff.
Title: Re: all stainless version
Post by: riffraff on January 22, 2008, 07:03:53 PM
Reinz,

I disagree.  All one needs is modern equipment and the knowlege to use it and something like a SS R9 frame machined from flat stock is a 'piece of cake'.  

Mike
Title: Re: all stainless version
Post by: C0untZer0 on February 06, 2012, 10:49:51 AM
I know this is a very old thread but there is an article this month in one of the gun magazines about the Kahr MK9 and the PM9 and how they make a great duo.

The main point of the article is that because the MK9 is stainless steel and heavier, it doesn't punish the shooter's hand and can be used for longer practice sessions.  I think the author advocates practicing with the MK9 and ending the training session with a couple of magazines from the PM9.

I'm not sure how many people could afford a second Rohrbaugh just for practicing with...  but I thought I'd bring it up.
Title: Re: all stainless version
Post by: MRC on February 06, 2012, 11:45:56 AM
I also read the article that you referred to.  I really like Kahr pistols and the PM9 is my favorite.  I enjoy my range time with the PM9 and I have never had trouble putting 50 to 100 rounds through it.  The same goes for the P380.  It is the only 380 pistol I have enjoyed shooting since I retired my Mustang.

As a reloader, I have found that reduced loads have been the easiest way to practice when you really want to extend your practice /fun sessions.

As for the R9, that is a different story.  The reason I am trying to sell mine is I have trouble getting 7 shots off quckly and accurately because I start to lose grip.  This is no problem of the gun, just my physical limitations from old age.

I have come to the realization that bigger might be better for me.
Title: Re: all stainless version
Post by: Reinz on February 06, 2012, 10:09:45 PM
Reinz,

I disagree.  All one needs is modern equipment and the knowlege to use it and something like a SS R9 frame machined from flat stock is a 'piece of cake'. 

Mike


Does the factory not have modern equipment and knowledge?

My understanding is because of such tight toleranaces BECAUSE of the modern equipment, the pieces must be hand fit.

Now add SS instead of Aluminum and you have Harder metal - meaning more time needed to fit, tools dulling sooner, more time spent on tool maintenance.  Thus more time, more money per unit when you already have your hands full with the current model R9.
So is the so called benefit going to be worth an extra $250?, $350..........

Just questions, I don't know.
Title: Re: all stainless version
Post by: Reinz on February 06, 2012, 10:23:19 PM
I also read the article that you referred to.  I really like Kahr pistols and the PM9 is my favorite.  I enjoy my range time with the PM9 and I have never had trouble putting 50 to 100 rounds through it.  The same goes for the P380.  It is the only 380 pistol I have enjoyed shooting since I retired my Mustang.

As a reloader, I have found that reduced loads have been the easiest way to practice when you really want to extend your practice /fun sessions.

As for the R9, that is a different story.  The reason I am trying to sell mine is I have trouble getting 7 shots off quckly and accurately because I start to lose grip.  This is no problem of the gun, just my physical limitations from old age.

I have come to the realization that bigger might be better for me.


MRC - Sorry to see that you are selling your R9.

If you have made your decision, I respect that.   Maybe I am not interpeting your thoughts correctly.  But even with a full size gun getting 7 shots off quickly does not fit into my equation.  Maybe 2 or 3, but controlled is the key for ME, and I stress ME.
Concealability/surprise factor and knockdown carry a lot of weight for me.  And that is where the R9 shines for me.

But on the other hand if you don't have the confidence, that can be everything.  I hope your other gun gives you that confidence.

Good Luck !
Title: Re: all stainless version
Post by: MRC on February 07, 2012, 08:38:48 AM
Reinz said

"MRC - Sorry to see that you are selling your R9.

If you have made your decision, I respect that.   Maybe I am not interpeting your thoughts correctly.  But even with a full size gun getting 7 shots off quickly does not fit into my equation.  Maybe 2 or 3, but controlled is the key for ME, and I stress ME.
Concealability/surprise factor and knockdown carry a lot of weight for me.  And that is where the R9 shines for me.

But on the other hand if you don't have the confidence, that can be everything.  I hope your other gun gives you that confidence.

Good Luck !"



I have no problems carrying or shooting with either the PM9 or the Solo with the Solo my favorite.  The Solo seems to point natural and the accuracy is outstanding.  It has my confidence.  Thanks.
Title: Re: all stainless version
Post by: Reinz on February 07, 2012, 09:42:37 AM
Yeah those Solo's are nice.