Author Topic: Let's hear from sight-less owners  (Read 5927 times)

Offline justin2992

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Let's hear from sight-less owners
« on: November 08, 2004, 04:11:58 PM »
What are the opinions of people who opted for the slick-top model? Have you done yourself and the gun an injustice?
The 1938 Nazi Weapons Law is alive and well in the United States, and is called, "The Gun Control act of 1968", and is enforced by the modern day gestapo, known as the BATF.

Offline doctordun

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Re: Let's hear from sight-less owners
« Reply #1 on: November 08, 2004, 04:35:22 PM »
Well, I wear tri-focals and seeing the front sight and the target in focus has become an increasing challenge. At close range, I print the same on targets as I do with sighted guns. As the distance grows, so do the groups.
As to how I feel.............OK. I do feel that everyone who has the sighted model tend to make us "unsighted" owners feel as tho we made a bad decision. I'm reluctant to state that I'm "unsighted". When I bought mine, I had a choice, wait for several monthes, or purchase the one in front of me. I liked what I saw and had to have it. I didn't feel inferior until I started visiting this site and read how everyone felt the sighted was the only way to go. I talked to Eric back then, and he said sales were about 50/50 for each. I don't know how that ratio is now.
Oh well.....I really like my R9!

Offline DDGator

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Re: Let's hear from sight-less owners
« Reply #2 on: November 08, 2004, 05:46:56 PM »
FWIW, Eric's gun (Serial #2) has no sights.  I shot it at the factory and almost didn't notice it -- just looked down the barrel and fired.

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Offline sharp

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Re: Let's hear from sight-less owners
« Reply #3 on: November 08, 2004, 07:03:50 PM »
I think my #2 will be an unsighted model; with the stainless slide/sights and lack of contrast I'm slow to pick up the sights anyhow.

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Re: Let's hear from sight-less owners
« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2004, 08:42:20 PM »
From what I've read, sights weren't even originally planned for the R9. Only after alot of people showed interest in it, did Eric decide to make a model with sights. This is one of the things that led to delays in getting it to market.

Personally, I feel that sites on a gun this small is about as useful as a screen door on a submarine.  This is not a range gun. This is a close range, point and shoot means of defense. Perhaps that's why Eric's peronal gun has no sights, he knows they are more of a placebo than a useful tool,  but you gotta give the people what they want.

JD

Offline DDGator

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Re: Let's hear from sight-less owners
« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2004, 10:03:02 PM »
You are right about the sights being an after thought, but I personally find them to hardly be useless.  I have no problem with the sights and the gun is capable of more than enough accuracy to make them worthwhile.  I have no problem shooting this gun with decent accuracy at 15 yards.
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Offline BillinPittsburgh

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Re: Let's hear from sight-less owners
« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2004, 12:20:51 PM »
Don't assume that the gun you select will determine the situation you will face.  Rather, it should be the opposite.
Gentleness can only be expected from the strong.  Ancient Chinese proverb.

Offline doctordun

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Re: Let's hear from sight-less owners
« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2004, 01:37:49 PM »
Well, so far, I'm the only sight challenged person on this forum or the only one willing to speak up.

Offline BillinPittsburgh

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Re: Let's hear from sight-less owners
« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2004, 05:12:40 PM »
When I first started practicing fast draws, I used a hybrid of a method taught in Bill Jordan's "No Second Place Winner" and Applegate's method.  About 1/3 of the time, I totally missed my target at distances of about 10-20 feet.

Later, when I took my first concealed handgun class, I was taught a 2-handed point shooting method, with the gun at chest level.  I qualified, but it was one of the worst targets I ever shot.

Ever since, my electronic timer and the holes in the paper tell me that using the sights is not only more accurate, but faster, unless your target is so close that you need to use a pectoral-index retention position (inside 5-6 feet).

I have learned that, if I can't see my sights, I can shoot almost as well by going through exactly the same motions as I would if I could see the sights, but looking down the top and sides of the slide, at least inside 30 feet.  The technique was particularly important for my Kel-Tec P-32 and North American Arms .380 (before I had Novak tritium sights installed on the latter).  Notice I said almost as well, not as well.  In fact, the Novak sights on the NAA .380 significantly increased both its usable range and the speed with which I can shoot it.

Seecamps don't have sights, and NAA offers a carry package with no sights on their guns, so the few who spoke up above are hardly the only ones who don't believe that sighs are necessary on such a gun.

Signts are often reduced to the point of uselessness or eliminated based on the mistaken idea that they will snag on a draw.  I have had hammer spurs and even a slide stop snag on a draw, but never sights.  I've asked many times on various forums (consider this another time) if anyone has ever actually snagged a sight on a draw, and have yet to find anyone who has.  It is too easy to design a highly visible, snag-free sight.

I'll always take the best sights I can get for these reasons.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2004, 05:14:13 PM by BillinPittsburgh »
Gentleness can only be expected from the strong.  Ancient Chinese proverb.

Offline R9SCarry

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Re: Let's hear from sight-less owners
« Reply #9 on: November 11, 2004, 11:18:22 PM »
Bill - I am on your page re sights ... even tho my less than good eyesight these days does make for a heck of a blur!

If however the R9 had been sightless - only - I am sure I would still have not been put off ... the simple sights are just a bonus to me.  ''In extremis'' .... there will I think (obviously!)  be a time factor ..... at worst it may be only enough time for point shooting but just as likely, there will be time to raise to sighting level  .... you I am sure as most of us .... can have gun in hand and up at eye level pretty danged fast.

Whether then you truly ''aquire'' a sight picture is another matter .. probably not but - they are there if a luxury of time permits .. otherwise it is a basic alignment of slide with target.  I have had a slight snagging when shooting revo practical years ago - with rather generous Patridge rearsights ... but then I was probably stupid to have such on a gun that had to be drawn fast.  Minor inconvenience tho - more a slight delay than true snag.

Bottom line with sights I think - is bit like my CT grips .... you don't necessarily depend on them but they are there ---- and can come into their own, time and lighting permitting.
Chris - R9S
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Offline BillinPittsburgh

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Re: Let's hear from sight-less owners
« Reply #10 on: November 13, 2004, 06:15:07 PM »
Hi Chris,

I think you are looking at the sights issue the right way:  regardless of whether you need them for a particular encounter or not, why not have them?

As for the speed issue, try it yourself with a timer.  I think you will find that, unless you are so close that you need to shoot from a retention position, it is not only more accurate but also faster to bring the gun into the line of sight, and even to use the sights.  Except inside about 5 or 6 feet, if you don't have time to aim, you probably have even less time to point shoot.

I have also found that the difference between a solid hit and either a peripheral hit or total miss is about 1/10 of a second.  That's a lot more time than a follow-up shot requires.
Gentleness can only be expected from the strong.  Ancient Chinese proverb.

Offline doctordun

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Re: Let's hear from sight-less owners
« Reply #11 on: November 13, 2004, 07:06:25 PM »
Well, I think I'm right. I'm the only one besides Eric who owns a sightless R-9 and the longer this thread goes on, the worser I feel. As I said before, very few if any will admit they have a R-9 on this board. Maybe I should have recieved a discount on the purchase price.
Even though I have a "inferior" model, I still like it very much and it's my 90% of the time, carry piece. I've had two occasions in my life where I had to draw. In both cases, the threat was less than 5 feet from me and it was dark. If I had needed to fire, sights would have been useless. I was lucky....the mere sight of my gun, diffused the situations.

Offline DDGator

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Re: Let's hear from sight-less owners
« Reply #12 on: November 13, 2004, 08:49:17 PM »
Doctordun,

Don't feel any remorse about your purchase... heck -- the designeers of the gun didn't think it needed sights!  There are NAA Guardians without sights and the new Kimber compact with very nearly no sights...

And yet, combat handguns is apparently complaining about their 25 yard groups...  Yeeesh.

If nothing else, you gun will be worth more if it is that rare.
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Offline 9mil.mouse

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Re: Let's hear from sight-less owners
« Reply #13 on: November 13, 2004, 08:49:28 PM »
Doc, I don't think an R9 without sights is necessarily inferior to one with sights. As I've mentioned on this forum before, I ordered the sighted model mainly because I wanted to see the R9s, but I fully intended to do a bit of grinding, filing, and polishing, and "melt" the pistol, including removing the sights. However when I got it, the R9s was just so darned slick that I decided not to change anything but just break it in and enjoy it.

I believe the original concept for the gun was to have all Rohrbaughs lack sights, and sights were only offered as an option because there was a good bit of interest on the part of potential buyers for a sighted model. If Eric had mentioned that his personal Rohrbaugh was one without sights it probably would have caused me to order a R9 instead of a R9s.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2004, 08:50:55 PM by 9mil.mouse »

Offline GeorgeH

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Re: Let's hear from sight-less owners
« Reply #14 on: November 14, 2004, 02:24:07 AM »
My gun is the R9s, but I had to be talked into that model. I have three Seecamps, and after a while, I became use to the fact that it had no sights. In time I'd like to pick-up 2 more guns, another R9s and a R9.

I've always thought of my pocketguns as very close range back-up weapons. In my defensive plan, sights on a gun like the Rohrbaugh are unnecessary.

So why did I buy a R9s, well, I guess the answer is so that I could carry it as a primary defensive firearm.