Possible new ammo for the R9 - Winchester SXZ

[flyandscuba]

I ran across this new ammunition while at the Bass Pro (Outdoor World) in Hollywood, FL.  I'm told Winchester is making it only for Bass Pro (unconfirmed).  It appears to be a standard "WWB" type hollow point bullet design -- but it has a black Lubalox coating.

I picked up a couple of boxes since it is standard pressure -- for possible use in my Rohrbaugh R9.  The ballistics table on the back of the box shows 1190fps and 362 ft/lbs. at the muzzle and 1071 fps and 293 ft/lbs. at 50 yards.





Price through February 28th is 13.67 per 50 -- after the 28th, regular price will be $15.49  They also offer a FMJ "Practice ammunition" version -- complete with the Lubalox for a little over $11 per 50 regular price.

Product code SXZ9P

This looks like it might be a good candidate for a little wetpack testing.  One of the things oldgranpa and I discovered in the last testing session -- was that the less expensive WWB personal defense ammo was darn near as effective in terms of penetration and expansion as the high priced stuff.

I haven't run any of the stuff through my R9 to test for function -- but plan to do so soon and will post a range report.

Information on Lubalox available here:

http://www.winchester.com/news/newsview.aspx?storyid=220

[Brenden]

Looking forward to hearing how this runs in your pup..

[Richard S]

Flyandscuba:

Thanks the notice on the new Winchester SXZ ammunition. I'll be looking forward to seeing any wetpack test results which you and OG obtain. Your past test results have been extraordinarily helpful -- even convincing me to change my 9mm and .380 ACP carry ammunition.

[RickP]

This may be a dumb question, but is there a standard barrel length ammo manufacturers use to test their products when they post ballastics data?

Rick

[Richard S]

This may be a dumb question, but is there a standard barrel length ammo manufacturers use to test their products when they post ballastics data?

Rick

Here's a link to a discussion of that topic on another forum:

http://outdoorsbest.zeroforum.com/zerothread?id=699764&postid=8620555

[riffraff]

RickP,

Yes, absolutley.  For the 9mm it is about right at 4" give or take a tad.  Some manufacturers have developed loads for shorter barrels and reduced muzzle flash.  This info. will be touted in the product info write up and on the box.

Keep an eye out on Glasser.  They are in the process of working up a short barreled 9mm load with a Barnes bullet of approx 88gr.  This should be an interesting load.  Barnes solid copper bullets are top notch.   They will never shed their jacket and tend NOT to fragment.

Mike

[flyandscuba]

88 gr bullet?  Might as well carry a .380 -- I'll pass on the uber exotics...  Now if the Corbon DPX 115 gr Barnes load was offered in standard pressure by Corbon (owner of Glaser) -- I'd be interested.

[RickP]

Thanks, Richard and Mike

Rick

[riffraff]

flyandscuba,

I think you are correct in that what I was referring to was in fact Corbon.

About your opinion on the bullet weight thing.  You are showing your age.  There is always a trade off in ANY caliber.  Heavier bullet weight means lower velocities, lighter bullet weight means higher velocities.  If we leave the Ball bullet out of everything then there are some important subjects to discuss.  I find your distaste for an 88gr bullet from an short barreled gun to be antique.  Keep packing your  model 1911 and leave the real carry guns to everyone else.

My opinions only,  Mike

[flyandscuba]

Actually, my typical CCW is a 9mm (usually the R9 because attire limits me to pocket carry) -- but it is loaded with the 115 gr Gold Dots.  In the frequently belt-carried HK P7/P7M8 -- I go with the Winchester Ranger T SXT +P+ 127gr load.

Search and look through some of the wetpack ballistic testing shared by oldgranpa and myself here and on other forums and see where the basis of my choices come from.

In any self defense load, consistent expansion can never be guaranteed.   Therefore, shot placemernt and adequate penetration are the most important aspects of a self defense combo.

The very light short barrel 9mm load you suggest most likely will not have adequate penetration for my comfort.  The speed a projectile hits the target (especially in a handgun) is of little value if the projectile never gets to a vital structure (penetration).  If it works for you -- that's great.  I know my chosen loads will do the job -- if I do my part by getting the bullet to the proper place...

[riffraff]

flyandscuba,

We do most definately agree that shot placement is the absolute most important thing.

Mike

[BytorJr]

Well, I didn't think I'd see such a pointed answer to the 380 comment on this board.  I too think that may be a little light; but I'll wait and see.  Personally, I'm not as sold on Corbon as a lot of folks.  They don't seem to crimp their ammo too well from what I've experienced; and, I've noticed a few loads seem to have lower powder than other loads even within the same box.  Perhaps their quality control has gotten better in the last 3 years, but for a while there, I didn't care for it and started using Hornady and ATK/Speer.

I'd like to see velocity out of the barrel for this new DPX round so I could determine energy for that load.   While I never went with 230g out of my short barrel 45 strictly because I knew I'd be losing velocity, I never went to 165g or 180g either.  I figured 200+P would be a good solution - this was long before Gold Dot short barrel came out for 45.   Mass does have some advantages (at least that's what I tell myself when I go buy new pants ).

As for the short barrel ammo, most of it is not traveling fast at all.  The main difference from what I've read (off the illustrious internet) is that, using Gold Dot for example, the bullet itself is designed to open at a lower velocity and the flash is less because they put a powder that burns completely in the short barrel length.   Just go look at how slow a 45 Gold Dot short barrel is going....it'll shock you.    Furthermore, for Speer's Short Barrel for 45 is 230g, NOT some lightweight bullet.  So I guess Speer should only develop ammunition for old outdated 1911s.  

That said in all seriousness, whatever one feels comfortable with and feeds reliably is what one should carry.  I hardly believe the comment that was made was so out of line that he should go back to his 45 and leave the rest of us to carry real guns.  

[tracker]

I agree, Bytor; that kind of hard edge and personal affront
has no place on this forum. Fly is to be commended for his
objective and classy response to Mike's comments.

[Novanglus]

I agree, Bytor; that kind of hard edge and personal affront has no place on this forum. Fly is to be commended for his
objective and classy response to Mike's comments.

Hear, hear!

[BytorJr]

F&S is an HK owner...cool.  I'm REALLy thinking of picking up a P7 from CDNN, not an M8 (dream on $$).  

Thanks to you guys as well, I wasn't sure if my comments may have been misconstrued.