Range report, Underwood ammo

[backupr9]

I took the R9 Covert and some Underwood Extreme Cavitator ammo to the range yesterday...first fired Lawman 124 with no problems with magazine #1.   Went to mag #2 and the 90 gr. Underwood loaded well, but on the 2nd round fired there was a "click".  I jacked the round which looked OK and it fired.  I then had several similar episodes And multiple jams as the round would not slide into the chamber; had to removed the mag each time.  I then noticed that the mag, one with a grip extender that came with a trade gun deal, slid easily into the grip and locked down well, but did not seem to be fully seated, with a clear gap between the grip and the extension.  Mag #3 would not fit in the pistol (one I bought when they were available, see Blue C2's post on mags). Went back to the original mag and had no more failures to fire, but still got some jams.  I do wish I had another mag available.

Went on to fire the Underwood standard pressure and the +P from my Boberg XR9S with no problems and reasonable accuracy.  The paper target stapled to a blue plastic barrel had, with each round, a round hole in the target but with a 1/2 inch horizontal slit in the paper on each side of the hole.  The hole in the barrel was, however, quite round.  I suspect this was not key-holing but was rather a function of thebullet configuration.

I have a few rounds of the Underwood left, and will try another range trip soon with both R9's and other mags.

[MRC]

I shot a box of the +P Underwood in a Solo with zero problems.  I also ran a box of the std pressure and a box of the +P's through a P380 with no problems.

The target I was shooting was a timed and rapid fire bullseye target on heavy tag paper.  The holes were all tiny star shaped from the bullet profile.   

[backupr9]

I just went to the Bond Arms site and noted that they state categorically that we should not use solid copper ammo in their equivalent of the XR9 due to oversize bullet and higher pressure loading.  I guess I was lucky my Shorty didn't disintegrate!

[MRC]

I do not think that is a problem with the Lehigh bullets which Underwood uses.  They are CNC produce from barstock and a OD of .355" which is OK.

The 32 EC bullets are actually machined to .311" which is .001" undersized.

Both bullets have a groove machined in the 'barrel' portion which reduces pressure.

What site did you see that on, I have never heard that?

[backupr9]

I googled Boberg Forum and was transferred to Bond Arms, Bullpup.  It was there that the warning was highlighted in a box warning.

[MRC]

John

Here is the warning you told us about(scroll to the bottom).  It is warning about C.O.P. ammunition and not any copper bullet ammo.  Look at the second link.

http://www.bobergarms.com/


http://www.midwayusa.com/product/368650/copper-only-projectiles-cop-ammunition-9mm-luger-p-115-grain-solid-copper-hollow-point-lead-free-box-of-25

The Underwood loaded with the Lehigh bullets should be OK.

[backupr9]

Thanks!  I did not know the difference.  I did like the Underwood +P in the Boberg, so will experiment with it some more when time permits.

[MRC]

Thanks!  I did not know the difference.  I did like the Underwood +P in the Boberg, so will experiment with it some more when time permits.

I really think that the Underwood used in the 32's and the 380's is very possibly the best way to go.

I tried the 9mm in my Solo and it ran fine.  I am not convinced yet that in any caliber above 380 that the Underwood/Lehigh gives any better results that standard hollow point ammo.  More testing is needed.

As far as the Boberg, watch out for "bullet pull" with the Underwood/Lehigh ammo.  It is hard to get a tight crimp with a solid copper bullet.  The light weight (90 grains) will help.

[backupr9]

MRC, the Underwood ammo is a bit "hot" I understand and, presumably, the +P even more so.  +P is not recommended in the Seecamp, but the consensus here so far is that the +P works in the .32 but the standard pressure seems to be prone to failure to fire in some, but not all, LWS .32's.  Do you feel the +P is safe for the pistol on a regular basis?

[MRC]

MRC, the Underwood ammo is a bit "hot" I understand and, presumably, the +P even more so.  +P is not recommended in the Seecamp, but the consensus here so far is that the +P works in the .32 but the standard pressure seems to be prone to failure to fire in some, but not all, LWS .32's.  Do you feel the +P is safe for the pistol on a regular basis?

I guess that I will say that the +P is fine I believe in the two Seecamps that I have shot it in, a Milford and a Southwick.

I do not know what Seecamp is doing but the difference from one pistol to the next  has me baffled.  There seems to be no consistency from one gun to the next.  I really think that there is too much hand work involved in their manufacturing and what comes out depends on who is building it.

The LWS32 is the exact same gun as the LWS380 in every way except the bore diameter.  The 380 load operates at a higher pressure than the +P 32 so pressure does not concern me in the least.  In fact, the LWS380's seem to be a lot more reliable than the 32's.

Don't confuse the retarded blowback system of the Seecamps with the recoil operating system on the R9, 1911's, and most other pistols.  In a recoil operated gun the recoil spring and the side weight are what oppose the  force of the cartridge being fired.  In the Seecamps the case is locked into the chamber by pressure until the bullet exits the barrel and then the case is "blown" out and cycles the slide to load another round.  If the case is blown out of the chamber before the bullet exits the barrel, the slide is blown back into the hammer with enough force to break hammer struts and do other damage.  It is the timing, not high pressure which causes problems.  I watch the ejected cases and see how far they are blown back.  That is a good indication of how the timing is.  If the case is blown a long ways, that is an indication of potential problems.  I have not seen that happen with the +P Underwood.

Let's face it, Larry Seecamp has remained in the 1980's as a person and so has his LWS32.  The Whalley's need to get their program into the 21st century.  JMO