The Rohrbaugh Forum
Miscellaneous => Other Guns => Topic started by: JoshA on November 22, 2015, 05:57:06 PM
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Of the nicer 1911's like night hawk, Ed brown and Wilson etc, what is the way to go?
Thinking...
If I did get one I would want a lightweight commander.
Obviously opinions are what I'm after so let them rip if you have them.
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Here are some high end Commanders:
http://cabotgun.com/better-than-custom-1911-pistols/the-commander-a-clone-technology-carry-pistol/#1
http://cabotgun.com/s-class/the-s103-cabots-entry-level-commander/#1
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Well I can give you my 2 cents worth.
A couple of years ago I decided I wanted to get a 1911.May have gone back to my days in the army.I don't know.The first one I bought was a Kimber Master Carry.3inch barrel.Looked nice,but too many malfunctions for my taste.Took it back to where I got it and traded up to a Knighthawk T3 he had in stock.It has pretty much been the pistol I have used in my league the last 2 years.A bit too heavy to carry comfortably,it's great for league.No issues.Not too long after I bought it I wanted another one,more or less as a keepsake to pass down.
This time I special ordered it.And what I ordered was an Ed Brown Kobra light weight,with my military id number as the gun's serial number.A couple bucks more,but not much.
Now,here is what I have learned,in my opinion.3 inch barrels ,at least a few years back ,are too short for the 1911.Supposedly a reliability issue having to do with the recoil spring.4,25 inch barrel seems to be ok. Both my Nighthawk and my Ed Brown are that size,and neither has had any issues.
Now the down side to the lightweight.The frame scratches rather easy I have noticed.However,in defense of the Ed Brown company,I believe this possibility is mentioned in their brochure.
I guess one last thing.It took awhile to get used to carrying it cocked and locked,psychological and nothing more.
My 2 cents,
Johnny
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For those in the know, where does the Les Baer Custom fit in for being a top shelf 1911?
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Check ou Christian arms...Damascus slide...l ;D
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I have owned and still own numerous 1911's. My experience has been that the Kimbers are pretty, but unreliable. You can spend the big bucks for the Wilsons, Ed Browns, Nighthawks, Caspians, and many more. They are all excellent in their own right. The one standout, IMO, are the Dan Wessons. Incredible quality at realistic prices...like almost half the big guys. I own a Dan Wesson Valor V-Bob. It is all the gun that all the others are. Now size. I own 3"'s, 3.6''s, 4''s & 4.6'"s. Years ago there were problems with the smaller sizes. Not now. A quality 3" or 3.6" is every bit as reliable as any other. JMO.
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For those in the know, where does the Les Baer Custom fit in for being a top shelf 1911?
I live in the same metro area as Les Baer and his products are as good as any. They are probably the best value buy of the "top line" 1911's out there.
That said, his product line is much more limited than the others. He does not cater to the 'carry crowd'. No light weight frames, no special coatings, etc. He can sell all he makes so he sticks with pretty much the his standard line. Mostly target types or Professional Carry, not CCW.
I have two of his 1911's. They arrive new so tight that they are nearly impossible to take down. Les recommends that you put at least 500 rounds through his pistols before the first cleaning. They are all guaranteed to shoot 3" groups at 50 yards. He tests all his guns out of a ransom rest and for $150 more you get one that shoots 1.5" at 50 yards.
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It is interesting to note the "full cycle technology" of the Cabot Commanders which is designed to maintain the internals of the original Browning full size model for cycling reliability, etc. Teddy Jacobson does not recommend any 1911 barrel shorter than 4.25 inches, but, no doubt, some of the newer short models are reliable now.
I agree on the value aspect of the Dan Wesson: high quality, no MIM parts, custom features, and fit and finish for the money. There must be a reason that there are very few lightweight Commanders in the blue blood's line-up.
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I guess I see 1911's making a few changes lately.
You can spend from maybe a low of around what, $500.00 up to who knows for a 1911 these days.Rock island Arms I have heard makes a good quality 1911,reasonably priced.And Wilson Combat makes a 1911 in 9mm. with a 3.6 inch barrel and a weight of 25.2 ounce for $3875.00.We kind of choose where we throw our money.
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For those in the know, where does the Les Baer Custom fit in for being a top shelf 1911?
I live in the same metro area as Les Baer and his products are as good as any. They are probably the best value buy of the "top line" 1911's out there.
That said, his product line is much more limited than the others. He does not cater to the 'carry crowd'. No light weight frames, no special coatings, etc. He can sell all he makes so he sticks with pretty much the his standard line. Mostly target types or Professional Carry, not CCW.
Thank you for your input. My local firearm dealer got one in in almost new condition. While I have certainly heard the name, this is the first time that I have ever seen one. Needless to say it was impressive in its quality from its looks and yes it was very tight in its handling. I have 1911's in Colt and Kimber but this one just seemed different. May have to take a second look. Thanks again.
I have two of his 1911's. They arrive new so tight that they are nearly impossible to take down. Les recommends that you put at least 500 rounds through his pistols before the first cleaning. They are all guaranteed to shoot 3" groups at 50 yards. He tests all his guns out of a ransom rest and for $150 more you get one that shoots 1.5" at 50 yards.
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Here is one that I wouldn't have thought about but it fits the OP bill other than being expensive. It looks like it is well made but I suspect it has some MIM parts. Ruger has put it through some rigorous testing:
http://www.ruger.com/products/sr1911/specSheets/6711.html
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I bought my son a Wilson Combat for his 40th...a wonderful piece and a pleasure to shoot. I own an Ed Brown Special Forces that is every bit as wonderful also....both are, however, full size 1911's.
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PS: I own and carry a Kimber Ultra CDPII with the 3" barrel that has been ultra reliable for years, and is quite accurate as well. It carries well and is relatively inexpensive to purchase.
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I don't think you can go wrong with any of the aforementioned upscale 1911s like Ed Brown, Nighthawk, Les Baer, Wilson,etc.. However, I would certainly want to to look, see, and feel anything I bought in that range. One thing that I learned from this post is that "Commander" is a Colt trade mark. In 1943, they received a trade mark status for "Commander" and in 2003 they were given one for "Combat Commander." Ruger, for example, calls their version a "CMD."
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Interesting Tracker. One of the other pistols in the pile I'm kicking around is an original Colt CCO (not current production). I understand it's not a higher end piece, but I feel like it would suit my needs and make a great carry 1911.
I do have a Kimber ultra carry II and have also found it to be very reliable and easy to carry Backup 9, but I am kinda looking to get into that slightly longer, commander length barrel.
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The CCO is highly regarded as a well designed 1911 carry concept. As this article reviews and compares it to others I would also consider the Dan Wesson Bobtail CCO. It comes fitted with a match barrel and no MIM parts.
https://gunsmagazine.com/the-cco-and-its-niche-mates/
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Josh - I purchased one of these and it is a nice gun in my opinion, though not high end by any means.
I can get three fingers on the shortened grip, front strap checkering and very nice sights for what the gun is designed for.
Check the specs out closely, it is well done. The only thing that I am not happy with is the long trigger.
http://www.taloinc.com/colt-firearms/colt-o9840wc-concealed-carry-officers
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It sounds like the Nighthawk T3 with an aluminum frame may have Josh's name on it.
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...or perhaps a Wilson.
The Wilson seems to be calling my name. That and an hkp7m8. And a 686.
Haaaah. So how did you fellows finally get to the point where you could stop adding to the "collection" (otherwise known as an addiction)? It seems like there is always one more thing to check into ya know.
All this and my primary carry is still the old trusty G27 (357 Sig barrel) unless clothing dictates pocket carry in which an R9 or 2 ride with me.
Help!!! Lol. At least lie to me and tell me your "collections" are worth much more they you paid for them so that they are solid investments please : )
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All I know is that my gun collection is worth more than my wife's shoes.
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Josh: You are all over the place! That's good because the search is always fun. You cannot go wrong with a Wilson Combat. Please be sure to hold an Ed Brown Kobra Carry...a beautiful gun! As for Tracker's wifes shoes...my wife has a closet of handbags, shoes, and clothes that fill it up. The deal is I stay out of there, and she stays away from the gun safe. It has worked for 34 years!
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...or perhaps a Wilson.
The Wilson seems to be calling my name. That and an hkp7m8. And a 686.
Josh, if you want the gun to be a fun one go for the 686. The 357 is a super round that is just about forgotten these days. There is perhaps no other cartridge that is as accurate as the 38 special in my experience.
If you want a gun with a weird design, go for the P7. The gun is an engineering marvel, but why would anyone dream up such a design. The gun is very accurate., but too heavy and too short on capacity to be of carry consideration but, not accurate enough to be a target gun. German Engineering fascinates me, both the good and the bad. I also like Auto Mags and that is the craziest gun design I think I have ever seen.
As for the high end carry guns, I have never given them a second look. They are "Work Guns" to me. I would not buy a Mercedes to drive to work when a Chevy at 30% of the cost will get me there and back just as reliably. Now I will admit that I got into this game from the target shooting side and not Law Enforcement or Military so maybe that is why. I have expensive guns but they have to be rare or shoot "X's" with regularity for me to enjoy them.
These are just my opinions and that is all. Everyone has different tastes and that makes the world a lot more interesting. Good luck.
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I tend to agree, Bob, and in that regard it would appear that the Springfield Range Officer Champion would be more than adequate for concealed carry. Either that or the previously mentioned Dan Wesson would seem to be enough for quality self defense without breaking the bank and concerned about theft or scratches. One thing is for certain and that is the gun used in shooting someone will take a long vacation from the owner.
http://www.guns.com/2015/03/02/springfield-range-officer-champions-roll-out/
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I know Colt gets bashed for being behind the times and overpriced, but the CCO I bought is a very nice pistol and shoots great. For me, it is specced out great.
Agree or not, Colts hold their value better than about anything being produced now.
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MRC mentioned the 357 / 38 special above. Has anyone had / shot the 1911 Coonan in this caliber? I understand that they are making one now in the comander size. It is interesting because of the caliber.
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I know Colt gets bashed for being behind the times and overpriced, but the CCO I bought is a very nice pistol and shoots great. For me, it is specced out great.
Agree or not, Colts hold their value better than about anything being produced now.
Colts are part of the great gun history of this great country. Everyone should own at least one. My first gun was a Colt Gold Cup National Match Enhanced .45. Beautiful guns to shoot, & pride of ownership abounds.
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MRC mentioned the 357 / 38 special above. Has anyone had / shot the 1911 Coonan in this caliber? I understand that they are making one now in the comander size. It is interesting because of the caliber.
Glad you asked, here is an old thread with a picture of mine.
http://www.rohrbaughforum.com/index.php?topic=6584.msg77528#msg77528
Here is Hickok45 shooting one. I wish I could shoot like him.
http://www.coonaninc.com/videos-more/#wp-video-lightbox/0/
They really are not a 1911. They have a linkless design, exterior extractor, and a pivoting trigger.
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I know Colt gets bashed for being behind the times and overpriced, but the CCO I bought is a very nice pistol and shoots great. For me, it is specced out great.
Agree or not, Colts hold their value better than about anything being produced now.
Agree. . . . . When in doubt ~ Buy the pony (Colt). . . . Yes, I get it, there are high end customs that are better (in some ways) than the Colt version 1911, however, like our old company, there is only one first, and that's a Colt 1911. Money in the bank and easier to sell. But, that's just me. Let the conversations continue.................. ;-)
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I'm in the process of buying a Colt Government XSE in 9mm. It's no longer made but I think I found a NIB in WV.
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y173/gkgeiger/Colt-01092XSE_zpssjaazoxa.png) (http://s5.photobucket.com/user/gkgeiger/media/Colt-01092XSE_zpssjaazoxa.png.html)
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Why not just buy a Colt Defender, be done with it, and make everybody happy with Josh's new gun wish?
http://www.gandermountain.com/modperl/product/details.cgi?pdesc=Colt-Defender-Handgun&i=733119
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Why not just buy a Colt Defender, be done with it, and make everybody happy with Josh's new gun wish?
http://www.gandermountain.com/modperl/product/details.cgi?pdesc=Colt-Defender-Handgun&i=733119
Good Call!
I own a Colt Defender Slim ( with the Rosewood grips ),...a beautiful gun to shoot and carry!
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I really like the Slim version; are those after market grips?
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I really like the Slim version; are those after market grips?
Factory. http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=524796896
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Beautiful!
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You guys are great. I love all of the ideas.
For right now I really like the Wilson Combat, BUT I'm also big on at least trying to make myself believe someday I will be able to get my money back out of whatever I buy or if passed down it will retain said value.
I'm not thinking the Wilson or Ed brown or other items will do so.
The old 1998 colt CCO on the other hand is not to be found right now. I found one a few weeks ago and passed. Mistake. They have the cult status as some older colts do. Masada Ayoob also happens to carry one which probably helps with that cult status.
I think I will hold out to find a 1997-1998 original CCO and see what I can find. This should likely be the ticket.
If any of you see a decent one for sale please let me know. I have looked at all of the old standard sites and they have vaporized for now.
Thanks for all of the help making this decision guys.
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Mas also carries a T3 and probably any number of other pieces depending on the flavor of the month:
"I’m writing this after 2 months with the Nighthawk T3 as my primary carry gun, loaded with Winchester Ranger-T .45 ACP 230-grain JHP. Modern bullets like the Ranger-T are designed to expand even out of shorter barrels. I acquired the T3 in 2009, before Nighthawk offered it in the lightweight format; done over again, I’d take the latter. The factory Colt sights on my lightweight CCOs are good, but the Heinie Straight Eights on my Nighthawk are better, hence the current preference. Even in all-steel format, they’re still slim 1911s that ride oh-so-comfortably inside the waistband, and in an outside the belt holster, the 4.25-inch barrel length lets enough slide ride against the hip to tuck the butt firmly and discreetly into the body."
Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2013/09/23/massad-ayoob-the-colt-concealed-carry-officers-and-its-niche-mates/#ixzz3sqQQa44D
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I just sold my Colt Wiley Clapp CCO. What is the difference between that and a 1997-1998 CCO?
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The Wiley Clapp is a stylized version of the CCO.
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The Wiley Clapp is a stylized version of the CCO.
If its the same gun as the other, why not get that one which is readily available instead of looking for a difficult to find older one?
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Collectibility and desirability; It's the old story of an original compared to a knock-off. I don't have anything against a TALO Wiley Clapp CCO and according to MRC it functions quite well. I'm sure the AC Cobra functions well, too, but I would rather have a Shelby Cobra. Also, Colt is not the same company it was in the past.
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I certainly understand your concerns about creating collectibles for collecting's sake as something that should not be done.
The TALO selections that Colt puts out do serve a purpose in my opinion. TALO puts the specs together for a certain pistol that they feel is something that the gun buying public wants. This way Colt can make a short run that they know is sold already to the TALO Dealers and make money doing it.
I like the Wiley Clapp CCO. I have purchased a few others, mostly Gold Cups and Commanders in 38 Super. Most, unlike the CCO, I have not shot but I do think they are good guns. A lot of it is just "fluff" I know but I am OK with that.
Even on the Colt Forum, and a lot of them are die hard collectors over there and despise the TALO's as collector items, think that they serve a purpose of getting quite function guns from Colt out to the public.
One thing that TALO does is they put out runs of 250 to 400 guns at a time. If they sell good and are in demand, they will do another 250 to 400 the next year also. The unpopular pieces will probably hold their value better than the more desirable ones.
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Thank you for the thorough explanation of their business model, Bob. I am all for anybody in the gun business who can make it work. TALO helps to keep the pipeline full for designated manufacturers and a lot of people employed who may not be otherwise.
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If I see the Talo cco in a LGS I will certainly have to check it out.
Thanks for all of the info guys.
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Josh, the twelve step program does not mean 12 more guns. You have taken the first step in dealing with your problem and that is recognition and admission.
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Josh, the twelve step program does not mean 12 more guns. You have taken the first step in dealing with your problem and that is recognition and admission.
Haha. I hear ya Tracker! Oh well perhaps I will stop finding interesting things I need to try one of these days.
I have to be honest. I carried my ultra carry II the other day and compared to my G27 with a 357 barrel it was an anchor. And of course had quite a few less rounds on the person.
Then I took both to the range and my first shot with the Kimber let loose before I wanted it to. That 3-4 lb trigger is pretty light for CCW for me.
I shot it ok, but I just don't shoot it as well as the black ugly thangs.
I think the search is over before it really began.
The thrill is gone. Sorry to all 1911 lovers out there. All those that love the classic lines of the 1911. All of the nostalgia. It's just not for me for ccw. They are pretty. I wanted to cc one, but not today.
I think that it's worth having the Kimber around to just holster up once a year to remind myself why I don't need to spend a other $1-3k on another one. Haha.
Back in black.
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Help is on the way.
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"MY NAME IS JOSH, I AM A....." ;D ;D ;)
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"MY NAME IS JOSH, I AM A....." ;D ;D ;)
A recovering uhhhhuummm... Lot of things. Kinda been a mess for a while. You guys fortunately only have to put up with me during the better 1/2 of my life. Yes, it was that bad. 👆🏼👆🏼
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It sounds like OCD at the least.
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Here are some high end Commanders:
http://cabotgun.com/better-than-custom-1911-pistols/the-commander-a-clone-technology-carry-pistol/#1
http://cabotgun.com/s-class/the-s103-cabots-entry-level-commander/#1
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I always wanted an Ed Brown Light Weight Commander with the Bobtail grip but never wanted to wait the length of time it took to get one exactly like I wanted from EB so I decided to have one built to my specs by another talented 1911 smith.
I purchased a new Colt XSE Light Weight Commander and did the bobtail myself I also purchased all new controls, springs and sights. I sent everything to Rob at ACW where he did the slide machining and he sent the frame to Neal Keller for the frontstrap snakeskin machining (to match the Ed Brown snakeskin main spring housing, serrated topstrap, rear of slide serrated, bottom edges of slide beveled, ball cuts on front of slide,11 degree muzzle crown and a trigger job that breaks like a glass rod at three pounds.
All the parts are top shelf EGW, Wilson, 10-8, XS 24/7 night sights
(http://i413.photobucket.com/albums/pp216/yankee2500/IMG_1920.jpg) (http://s413.photobucket.com/user/yankee2500/media/IMG_1920.jpg.html)
(http://i413.photobucket.com/albums/pp216/yankee2500/IMG_1917.jpg) (http://s413.photobucket.com/user/yankee2500/media/IMG_1917.jpg.html)
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Beautiful work, John. Most people could not put together a project like that with the same results.
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Good looking 1911 Yankee!
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I love 1911s and that one is beautiful!!! Good luck with it!