The Rohrbaugh Forum
Miscellaneous => Other Guns => Topic started by: Joe_from_NY on May 16, 2011, 01:14:56 AM
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My friend found this old Colt among his fathers belongings after he died a few years back. He said he has had it since sometime in the '60s. Can anyone tell me what it is and maybe a general idea what it would sell for?
(http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae310/photospotxx/for sites/CIMG4171Medium.jpg)
(http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae310/photospotxx/for sites/CIMG4165Medium.jpg)
(http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae310/photospotxx/for sites/CIMG4166Medium.jpg)
(http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae310/photospotxx/for sites/CIMG4170Medium.jpg)
(http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae310/photospotxx/for sites/CIMG4168Medium.jpg)
(http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae310/photospotxx/for sites/CIMG4167Medium.jpg)
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I just noticed a strange stamp on the right grip. It looks like a crown with an E8 under it. It almost looks like those proof stamps they use in England.
(http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae310/photospotxx/for sites/CIMG4179Medium.jpg)
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Hey Joe, I'm not an expert, probably know just enough to be dangerous.
Colt Open Tops are either the Model 1860 Army model or the 1861 Navy model. Both being produced until 1873 when the Peacemaker came out which used cartridges.
The Army models were 44 cal and Navies were 36 cal, so that should help you fiqure out which one you have there.
I know that the Navy model also has a Naval scene on the cylinder.
I have been told that the Army model has a ground battle scene on that cylinder, however, I remember being confused by reading of Naval scenes on the Army model as well, which makes no sense at all.
If you have a 44, maybe you can clear up my confusion and tell me which scene is on the cylinder.
Good Luck
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Oh yeah, there is a difference between the Army and Navy beside cal., the grip frame is different.
Some guys prefer one over the other.
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It has a very faint engraving of some sailing ships with the text "ENGAGED 16 MAY 1848". My cheapo $10 digital micrometer from harbor Freight apparently has a parasitic drain on the battery, so it is dead and i cant measure the inside of the cylinder to get the caliber.
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Well let's put it this way, can you fit just the bullet only of a 9mm round, very snug or tight into the barrel or forward end of the chamber? If so, then it is a 36 cal.
Or, if that 9mm bullet passes into the bore or chamber with plenty of room to spare it is a 44.
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The "ENGAGED 16 MAY 1843" depicted a Texas Ship, the Austin, engaged against the Mexicans at the Bay of Campeche. The 1848 you saw could have been 1843. Below is a link to some history.
http://users.rcn.com/robertbrecht/tobias/PDFs/engaged_text.pdf
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Joe:
I think what your friend has there may be a Colt Revolving Belt Pistol of Naval Caliber (i.e., .36 cal.), more commonly known as the "Colt 1851 Navy" or "Navy Revolver." Some 250,000 of these cap and ball revolvers were said to have been made, and among those prominent individuals who favored them were "Wild Bill Hickok, "Doc" Holliday, and General Robert E. Lee.
The serial number of your friend's revolver would appear to be 25706. There is a low-numbered Colt 1851 Navy, which doesn't appear to be in as good a condition as your friend's, currently being offered by Collector's Firearms for $7,500.00:
http://www.collectorsfirearms.com/admin/product_details.php?itemID=25569
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Looks like Richard nailed it.
The grip frames seem to match as well as the rest of the pics.
That's why I always just call them Open Tops, I get mixed up between '51 and '61.
I bet that 9mm will fit snug.
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An outline of the Colt '51 Navy is also shown in the above link to some of Colt, Ehlers, and Republic of Texas history.
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Oh, I did not scroll down far enough to see the sketch.
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more photos with better lighting
(http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae310/photospotxx/for sites/CIMG4195Medium.jpg)
(http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae310/photospotxx/for sites/CIMG4197Medium.jpg)
(http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae310/photospotxx/for sites/CIMG4198Medium.jpg)
(http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae310/photospotxx/for sites/CIMG4200Medium.jpg)
(http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae310/photospotxx/for sites/markonframe3.jpg)
(http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae310/photospotxx/for sites/CIMG4204Medium.jpg)
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It appears all the serial numbers match and thats a big plus.
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That is a good looking 1851, for sure! Great condition.
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yeah, but my concern is that the font on the numbers doesn't match any of the others i have seen online, and i am thinking it might be a replica.
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Well, I was kind of thinking the same thing Joe. But what keeps me see/sawing back and forth are a couple of things.
If it was a replica, usually they say, "Uberti", "Taylors and Co", "Dixie Gun Works", "Cimarron" somewhere.
But then, if it was a counterfeit, that would be gone.
Also, for a 160 yr old black powder gun, those nipples are very very clean (no wise cracks guys, please). That is the hardest part of the gun to get clean. So that kind of makes me suspect.
Those grips are the current color of the Italian breed as well.
I would think that the brass would be a bit nicked up for gun that age, since that is a soft metal.
Maybe a complete tear down would reveal more clues.
These are just red flags looking at a picture. I am not there.
If I were looking to buy, I would definitely have an expert look at it first.
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That is what I thought, too. The metal finish that is peeling forward of the cylinder and under the barrel looks bogus.
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Colt can probably help you and your friend determine whether the revolver is an original, a replica, or (hopefully not) a counterfeit. Meanwhile, your friend's revolver shows a New York stamp. Here is a link to an Antique Roadshow appraisal of a Hartford 1851 Colt Navy in which the New York models are mentioned and values are discussed:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/roadshow/archive/200603A22.html
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Seems to be Model 1851 Navy, Small Round Trigger Guard, 3rd Model The serial numbers ranged between #4201 to #85000.It may have been refinished.
Did you sell your R9S?
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No, not yet, still got it. I am running out of room in the safe, the original cardboard boxes are piling up in there. I will probably get some R9S photos up when my son brings my camera back from his mother's house.
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I would get a letter from Colt.I have for my more valuable revolvers.If it was refinished by Colt in the custom shop, it will tell you, and most likely not diminish the vaue too much.The Colt Collectors association is having the annual meeting in 2 months in St Louis. You could get a definitive answer there, after getting the letter.
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thanks, Cutman
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Anyone ever see that "R. Jackson" anywhere? I think it was a London shop.
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Holy 6 year necro bump batman!