Author Topic: pup gos to seecamp bootcamp  (Read 11652 times)

Offline tracker

  • Grand Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 5391
Re: pup gos to seecamp bootcamp
« Reply #15 on: September 04, 2006, 08:14:04 PM »
Higher/deeper makes sense with the non-factory. That must
also create a tighter fit on the bottom latch. I wonder if there
is any increased magazine spring pressure to aid in the feed-
ing.

Offline Richard S

  • Grand Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 5772
  • Nemo me impune lacessit.
Re: pup gos to seecamp bootcamp
« Reply #16 on: September 05, 2006, 09:11:24 AM »
Captain:

Thanks for your excellent report!  My experience has been that most of the problems which occur with quality semi-automatics can be traced to faulty magazines.  It's ironic that a beautiful $1,000 dollar pistol can be reduced to the efficacy of a rock by a faulty $35 magazine.
(1963-1967) "GO ARMY!"

Offline rooster

  • New Member
  • *
  • Posts: 48
Re: pup gos to seecamp bootcamp
« Reply #17 on: September 05, 2006, 11:52:13 AM »
l
Lets see if i have this higher lower thing correct.  If there is a gap between the frame and the floorplate and you fill in the gap more than the thickness of the gap the mag would be lower in the frame, If you have the same gap and you add material at the bottom of the floorplate the same thickness as the gap then the mag would sit higher in the frame. So my question what was done to the pistol to make the gun run, make the mag sit higher or lower?

Offline rooster

  • New Member
  • *
  • Posts: 48
Re: pup gos to seecamp bootcamp
« Reply #18 on: September 05, 2006, 11:58:32 AM »
I just reread the post more closely and the answer I beleive is that material was added to the bottom of the floorplate resulting in the mag to sit higher in the frame which makes more sense because now the bullet sits a little higher and hits the feed ramp at a better angle.

Offline MountainMan

  • Grand Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 978
  • MountainMan Dave
Re: pup gos to seecamp bootcamp
« Reply #19 on: September 05, 2006, 09:29:19 PM »
Someone go and visit the Capt and take a picture to post.
"Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but the moments that take our breath away..."


Offline capt.koolaid

  • Expert
  • ***
  • Posts: 120
Re: pup gos to seecamp bootcamp
« Reply #20 on: September 07, 2006, 04:55:25 AM »
The old mans back from the lake. By the response from this post I figured Id pick his brain about this whole thing. Heres the skinny according to "old wise one":
 The replacement floorplates were not "home made", at least by him. He removed them from magazines off of a Walther P-38. I did a google search among other things and the general consenus is they were never offered by Walther so someone, somewhere, put them on before the oldtimer got the gun in on a trade deal. I cant figure out WHY they were on thier as a Walther P-38s grip is certainly large enough without a finger extension unless.....maybe the original floorplates were lost/damaged? At anyrate, he had originals and swaped em out for the finger extensions per my original request because he "figured theyd fit".

After the first "transplant", he noted what he thought was excessive play between the magazine catch and the factory floorplate which, in his opinion could have induced reliability issues. When I returned and stated I wanted one of the mags to be "flush fit" he simply ground the extension down on one of the floorplates to facilitate this, and sugested I try it as well to see if thier was any improvements in reliability. Since this modification is easily reversed by simply re-installing the factory floorplates which obviously were retained I figured it couldnt hurt.

I explained to him since his floorplate modification my pup has had a significant increase in reliability. His response was a half grin, followed by a "thought so" remark. I asked him what the big deal was behind all this and basicaly he stated metalurgy, measurements, etc. can be fickle, but bottom line the mags do not move being "shimmed" in tighter, under recoil, thus providing a stable platform in an admittedly tight, high recoiling weapon, and do in fact sit HIGHER in the well, do to the floorplate flanges "thickness" allowing a tighter AND higher "rail" for the mag tubes grooves to slide in to.

He also stated that a more powerful spring, modified follower, etc. may improve performance but that this was in his (and my) opinion the best alternative considering warranty, availability of aftermarket springs, etc. As such, the springs, followers, and subfloorplate in my mags are factory original, the only modification being the exterior floorplates themselves.

I too, am curious what Bros R would think of this. Does anybody have any pull with them to maybe drop em a line?

Please note I do not claim to have found the dali lamma here, nor am I trying to promote "snake-oil". Those that have had reliability issues may benefit from an attempt at "shimming" up the mag, as has been stated, folks in the know with feeler gauges, etc. could easily duplicate this. I do know the old man used a Micrometer to "mic" the tollerance disparity but he also said without looking at proprietary blueprints from the factory, each particular pup could have signifigant tolerance disparitys making an exact "recipe" for future floorplates a tricky liability prone difficulty although I did secure more of them, "just in case" I need em for a new STEALTH!

This post is getting long so I better cut it short. I have a camera phone, so if anyone REALY wants pics, I could take them an e-mail them to you. Im sorry I dont understand the whole posting pics process, (maybe someone could do it from thier e-mail?)
« Last Edit: September 07, 2006, 05:01:06 AM by capt.koolaid »

Offline BlueGrips

  • Expert
  • ***
  • Posts: 194
Re: pup gos to seecamp bootcamp
« Reply #21 on: September 07, 2006, 09:23:28 AM »
Quote
This post is getting long so I better cut it short. I have a camera phone, so if anyone REALY wants pics, I could take them an e-mail them to you. Im sorry I dont understand the whole posting pics process, (maybe someone could do it from thier e-mail?)

Capt., please email the pictures to me and I will post them for you.

Offline R9SCarry

  • Grand Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 2657
  • Aut viam inveniam aut faciam
Re: pup gos to seecamp bootcamp
« Reply #22 on: September 07, 2006, 10:55:40 AM »
Pics sure would be handy - some sort of side by side comparison and even too if possible some caliper measurements comparing std floor plate with modified.

I know Eric R pretty well and he does try and come in to read here when he can so - chances are he may have seen this thread already.  If when I next speak to him he has not been aware of it, I'll mention it.
Chris - R9S
Guns don't kill people - people kill people.
R9 FAQ Site
NRA Life member and Certified Instructor.

Offline riffraff

  • Master
  • ****
  • Posts: 477
Re: pup gos to seecamp bootcamp
« Reply #23 on: September 07, 2006, 06:25:14 PM »
capt.koolaid,

So as I understand it even the flush fitting floorplate is a ground off version of the finger extension mags for a P-38 that your friend has no idea where they came from.  So it doesn't look like we could just get a couple of these floorplates and play with them because no one really knows what the heck they are.  darn the luck.

Mike
NRA Benefactor Member
FCSA Life Member

Offline jaycee

  • New Member
  • *
  • Posts: 37
Re: pup gos to seecamp bootcamp
« Reply #24 on: September 07, 2006, 10:25:21 PM »
riffraff, check your pm :)

Offline capt.koolaid

  • Expert
  • ***
  • Posts: 120
Re: pup gos to seecamp bootcamp
« Reply #25 on: September 08, 2006, 07:32:35 PM »
Ill take some shots via the camera phone and e-mail em to Bluegrips ( thanks!) unfortunatly I dont have calipres, mics, etc. as I wouldnt know how to use em anyway! I have secured more floorplates so thiers some extras out to playwith. Anything I can do to help with reliabilty issues Id be glad to do because I know first hand how frustrating a problematic pup can be.

Offline BlueGrips

  • Expert
  • ***
  • Posts: 194
Re: pup gos to seecamp bootcamp
« Reply #26 on: September 09, 2006, 09:27:26 AM »
As received from capt.koolaid:





Offline bigyimmy

  • Expert
  • ***
  • Posts: 152
Re: pup gos to seecamp bootcamp
« Reply #27 on: September 09, 2006, 05:06:32 PM »
I wonder if the slide catch could be adjusted (tweaked) instead of installing a new floor plate on the bottom of the magazine.  Any thoughts?

Offline capt.koolaid

  • Expert
  • ***
  • Posts: 120
Re: pup gos to seecamp bootcamp
« Reply #28 on: September 09, 2006, 05:22:30 PM »
Sorry bout the quality of the pics, Phone cameras dont focus well up close. Thanks for posting Blue grips!

As you can see the black floorplates a tad thicker, and for some reason, even with the mag catch held open, the mag stays in place, not poping out. If inverted, the mag would not drop free but would need to be tugged on a very slight amount before the mag would jettison. With factory floorplates the mag slides out the minute the catch is moved...odd???????

Also note the factory floorplate "turns up" in the front area were the non-factory is flat.

Id be leary of modifiying ANYTHING on the gun itself due to the already tight tollerances and possible warranty compromise. With this mod, all you need to do is change out the floorplate,....compltetely reversable. Thiers a gunshow coming up so im gonna be on the lookout for similar floorplate "matchs" on singlestack 9mms for consideration. I do think modifying the factory floorplate is possible and would be a minimal task as if a replacement were needed, its only one removable part.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2006, 05:29:38 PM by capt.koolaid »

Offline BlueGrips

  • Expert
  • ***
  • Posts: 194
Re: pup gos to seecamp bootcamp
« Reply #29 on: September 09, 2006, 06:44:38 PM »
capt.koolaid: no sweat. I tried to enlarge & brighten them up but with such low resolution, this is all I can do.