pup gos to seecamp bootcamp

[capt.koolaid]

Those of you who have read my previous posts know my results have been less than positive with my pup. Feeding problems, jams, etc. Richard and Tom have been especialy supportive allowing me to rant and offering constant support thru out. Im happy to say my pup has been fixed. Finaly! A good friend whos a Seecamp nut, backyard gunsmith, nice guy, and as far as im concerned GENIOUS, has cracked the code on this particular weapon.

I now take and offer the pepsi challenge to the fellas at the club with my pup. blazers, hydrashoks, goldensabers, all without a hitch, no hiccups, jams, or anything. Guys who "limpwristed" before have shot my pup with no problems and most importantly, I have total faith in it now and its my carry gun!

The solution to it is/was a bit technical, but ill try to describe it as best i can, so that those of you with similar problems may wanna try this remedy. It certainly worked for me.

Basicaly, it involved changing the floorplate on the magazines. For some reason, My pup must have been "out of spec" because the standard magazines evidently did not seat as far in as they should have. The replacement floorplates are a tad thicker, and as such the magazine seats deeper. I find it no more difficult to insert/seat the mags with these differant floorplates than I did with the factory ones but when removing the mags you can FEEL they are deeper and tell when racking the slide. The heel mag catch slides over the floorplates just fine, but thiers absolutely no play in the tolerance gap as before with the factory floorplate. Visibley comparing the floorplates the "new" ones are thicker, and thus, act as a "shim" to provide a deeper set when inserted in the mag well with the catch engaged and holding the mag in place. The magazine stays inserted, while firing, and after extensive testing seems to work BETTER than the factory model.

This "remedy" was discovered accidently when I decided I wanted a finger extension installed to provide a two finger grip on the gun.  I knew this fella could possibly jerry rig such a contraption so I went to him and presented my problimatic pup.  After a while he came up with an extension and asked if Id had reliability issues. I said boy howdy! He then explained the size/tollerance disparity/s and rattled off some measurements to me ( I have no idea what he meant) then gave me both mags, one with a extension, the other without but both had differant floorplates.  My buds and I then enjoyed testing both mags without any malfunctions. We even failed to let the weapon cool on a couple occasions and the gun was pretty dirty. Well, sorry about the long post, My new found joy over the pup has spilled over! At anyrate, I apologize for no pics. I dont have the necessary equipment yet for posting them.

[tracker]

Great news, Kool; where did he find the new floorplates?

[riffraff]

capt.koolaid,

Yeah, no kidding, this sounds very very interesting.  Now ask your friend what he used in place of the stock floorplates.  Your explanation was excellent and I could follow it easily.  I never thought to try to shim the mag deeper to see the effects on jamming with R9S #1.  On my R9S #1 there seems to be very, very little slop when the mag is inserted but I might be willing to try anything in order to expand the types of ammo that will function in this gun.

You can't leave us hanging on this one!  Please let us know what your bud used in place of the stock magazine floorplates.

Mike

[sslater]

+1 on the source of that replacement flloorplate.  My R9S - a July 2005 build - has about zero "slop" between the heel release mechamism and the floor plates of the four mags I own.  Since the floorplate is a stamping, it seems a thicker floorplate would position the mag's feed lips LOWER in relation to the barrel.  (The thicker floorplate material wraps around, and would space the flange of the magazine itself lower whan compared to a thinner floorplate.)

Whether the mag is spaced deeper or shallower, if the modification worked for capt.koolaid, that's a good clue to making the pups more obedient.  

[MountainMan]

Very Interesting!

Chris (R9SCarry) - our Pup expert - how do you weigh in on this?

Would also like to know what Mag floor plates were used.

[R9SCarry]

Dave - I just checked for ''slop'' on my regular (the #2) pup and there is none.  So a thicker floorplate would I suspect make engagement difficult or impossible.

For completeness - just went to safe to look at #1 gun - now there I see a miniscule amount of slop - guessing, maybe 3 to 5 thou - pretty slight.

But heck yes - the theory behind this has plenty of logic and I am more than interested to read your write-up Capt - it is most thought provoking.  I shall be considering it further.

[PursuitSS]

I looked at all three of my magazines, the way the floorplate is designed (stamped) a different floor plate COULD allow the feed lips to sit higher. The only way I can see to do this (at midnight anyway) is to stamp a new floor plate and then weld an additional  piece on where the catch engages.

If you look at your floor plates (While they are ON the mag) you can see that they could be reworked to allow the mags to seat deeper.

I just came up with another idea (AGAIN, it's MIDNIGHT). Redesigned floor plate and a new shorter length magazine catch.

PursuitSS (good night!)

[DTM_39]

Capt, Very interesting will have to see what the Bros R think of this fix. Glad you are now as happy as the rest of us with your R-9. Dan

[BlueGrips]

For what it's worth, I had recently mailed my Farmindale R9 back to the factory due to some jammed issues. It came back with a noticible new magazine latch/release installed. It now takes MUCH MORE effort to release the magazine, which seems to sit a lot tighter into the gun.

I can't tell you what else they did to it, but it fires great so far.

Perhaps this is the same general issue with some problematic R9s out there.

[capt.koolaid]

Sorry I didnt get the scoop on those floorplates when I picked up the gun. I honestly had no idea such a seemingly insignifigant mod would have made such a drastic improvement in reliability! To be honest, I had pretty much written my pup off as a lost cause. He did say if I wanted a few more he thought he could ablige. Unfortunatly as luck would have it the old geesers at the lake for the holiday so I wont see him again for a while.

Like most, im frustrated by what I dont understand and SSLATER has a good point, in theroy, if the floorplates are thicker one would think they would make the mag sit shallower NOT deeper although it definatly seems to be the opposite.

Rest assured I will interogate my elderly friend the minute he returns! Meanwhile, Im curious about this. Blue grips says one of his pups came home with a slightly differant mag catch and a few of you have stated one pup may have some play, the other none. This tells me maybe the old mans on to something here!

As far as the floorplates themselves, They appear to be a manufacture not home made. No welds are visible, and they are steel. They dont have the notch the factory models do for the tip of the mag catch to click inside, however they fit so tight in the gun and stay in place while fireing that I honestly dont think its needed although he did say he could mill out a portion for it if I wanted. ( im so damn thrilled with performance at this point i dont want a thing changed!).  The mag catch slides over them just as the factory model, and to seat the mags all i do is push em in with my thumb until the catch slides over it. ( No hard slam home needed). About the only differance I can detect is that the mag seems to "hang" in the well, when the catch is pushed out, requiring a slight tug to remove, then dropping free. With the originals the mags didnt do this. Its almost as though the magazine tubes were swelled, yet I find no evidence of this and fit seems to be the same with the mags loaded or unloaded.  Of course I retained the original floorplates and comparing them to the mods you can see the mods are considerably thicker. They look OLD and are built like a tank, with some blueing coating applied and are HEAVY! In addition, thier is some grooves applied on the finger rest model, ( Man I wish I could post pics!) and thier is a hole in the bottom for the subfloorplate post to lock in to.

Im gonna need more recoil springs since my last little torture test has put considerable miles on but it was worth it! I love this thing! Id be interested to see if others with problems would benefit by trying one of these mags. Guinnesdog what state you live in? O.K., enough for now I guess. Yet another longwinded post. Sorry guys.

[prydwen]

thicker floor plate would seat deeper...would push
mag further up into the weapon...as the mag catch is on butt of grip.  This is a pure guess...imagine the backyard gunsmith made his own floor plate...a metter of using a feeler guage and mic to find the "slack" measurement...using metal stock
and a cutter, grinder, polisher, maybe a file and some good cold blue would probably get the job done...but, would be very interested in the particulars as this sounds like it would be a good modification for many of these guns...if all meet same dimensions as they should if as precise as stated. (and a precise gun with slop accessories is a diamond in a hogs nose)

[prydwen]

I've seen a number of posts on feeding issues...this could be
the best answer to the problem yet...this mag modification...in fact, it is one the company should consider...the old floorplate would make the template in all except thickness of the stock used and should be a relatively easy fix for the factory people, but do-able for any person handy with basic metalworking/gunsmithing tools...the magazines are always on the list of "usual suspects" with feeding problems and this is one of the first things I am going to check...

[prydwen]

I am still thinking on this project...easier perhaps than "making" a whole new mag floorplate might be to simply build and insert a shim on bottom of floor plate either inside (to push spring and follower up) or out (to thicken mag base under mag catch) whichever works best...and, if available install a stouter magazine spring...may be a matter of the magazine follower shape and how it presents the round to the feep ramp...hmm...all sorts of little possibilities other than to build a new floorplate.  I am wondering is a combination of all of the above may be worth a try...if no improvement a new mag or putting it back like it was is always there.

[rooster]

I beleive the mags would sit lower in the frame because the floorplate is "thicker", the edge of the floor plate rests against the frame so if it was thicker then the mag would be lower. On checking mine I have about three thousandths play.  I have no issues so far but I have a buddy who is experiencing ftf's and this might be his solution.  Can anyone be more specific about wheather the mag is higher or lower in the frame?

[capt.koolaid]

My magazines sit higher/deeper in the well with the non factory floorplates. The magazines seem to be the "newer" design without the visible weld.