The Rohrbaugh Forum
Rohrbaugh Products and Accessories => Cleaning and Maintenance of the R-9 => Topic started by: Michigunner on May 13, 2006, 07:47:18 PM
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I've been wondering if the R9 owner could stop using grease, and switch to ordinary oil, maybe Rem Oil or Mobil-1, and certainly apply a generous amount.
My theory is if you only intend to shoot 6+1 and then stop, it seems like oil should be sufficient for that small amount of activity. I would think oil could even handle two magazines during a shooting session.
The thought of all that grease is contrary to our earlier education about firearms. Of course, I recognize that Rohrbaugh knows what is appropriate for the R9.
I would never take the risk of voiding the warranty by using oil, but it is an interesting topic.
Bill
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Teflon dangers in gun lubricants and possible problems using Blazer ammo.
Bill,
I've also wonder why Superlube - what about a good gease like Militec
Doesn't Superlube have teflon in it? I could be wrong but I thought it did - misplaced my tube for now to look.
Larry Seecamp on the Seecamp forum mentions some possible problems using teflon lubricants.
The link to that thread below also address something very interesting. Seecamp has had problems with misfires when people use Blazer ammo. Seems the aluminum from the case plates itself to the chamber and resizes it = the only way to remove the aluminum plating is to use a reamer - something a normal Joe may not attempt on his own. Read the entire page - interesting.
http://seecamp.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl/YaBB.pl?board=lws_32;action=display;num=1134749000;start=7#7
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Bill,
I agree with you.
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Assuming that only 1 or 2 magazines would be fired, oil is starting to sound good to me.
The only negative thing is the possibility that the system is "timed" based upon the use of grease. Most likely it was meant for extended firing sessions where oil was insufficient.
I just ordered 200 Silvertips last night. The temptation is great to experiment with one magazine. If that works, then the other magazine could be considered.
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Dave, thanks for the important link about teflon. I never have felt good about using Superlube.
Now, Mobil-1 is another matter. That sounds like a winner. You can go all over the internet and find people using it for their firearms.
While I'm thinking about it, my new HK USP 45 user manual says not to use oils that bond to the metal. Of course, you would imagine they mean Militec-1. They say that the lubricate may harm the primers.
I always keep it away from the primer, but nevertheless have followed their recommendation and not used it on the big 45.
Sorry about putting this oil topic in the wrong section of the forum.
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I had a spell of concern with my SIG last year - and having used on that Tetra grease and Militech grease, found that the grease was getting ''crud-bound'' - sufficient to slow the slide with drag such that std pressure ammo was giving trouble. +P was OK. Forget round count but it was not a huge thruput.
I ''retired the gun for a while while I analyzed the trouble - switching to SW99 and R9. I satisfied myself that grease was indeed a problem. SIG said I may need more break-in but - that was not it.
I am very concerned with R9 that having SS running on Al allow, that lube is good - but must confess I am now more inclined to lube with Militech1 or Mobil 1 and strip/clean/relube way more often.
I am confident that there will never be a gun running dry - and also feel happier that no crud ''thickening'' effect with grease will be experienced.
I respect Karl and Eric's recommendation re superlube but still feel better with my grease-free approach and relube often - minimal lube i might add, not a bath! Less is more and adequate if frequent.
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Bill - moved this to maintenance forum :)
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Sounds good to me. I'm switching to oil, and then strip and clean more often.
It's good to know others have reached the same conclusion.
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I've been using Militec-1 on mine almost from the beginning and sometimes I mix it with a bit of Militec grease. But I don't think grease is the best solution, especially in very cold weather.
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harrydog,
I'm a big Militec-1 fan. Bought a larger bottle after receiving the free sample.
Bill
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Yeah, I think Militec-1 is an outstanding lube.
On another note, if I were going to use a motor oil to lube my gun (which I'm not), I think there are better choices than Mobil 1.
Redline uses a basestock (polyol ester) which has an affinity for hot metal. In other words, it actually clings to metal as opposed to running off like the PAO basestock used by Mobil 1.
It also has a higher film strength and a lower coefficient of friction. At $8.00/quart it's expensive for a motor oil, but still dirt cheap as a gun lube.
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I may have to back down about not using grease. It looks like grease is mandatory. No ifs, ands, or buts.
I intend to do normal carry with oil only, but always apply grease just before any Non-Emergency shooting.
The owner's manual has the following warning about the warranty.
Lubrication: Use quality grease on the barrel and frame as shown. It is imperative that you use grease in these areas. Failure to do so will cause the frame rails to wear prematurely and void your warranty. You may use quality gun oil for the rest of the firearm.
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Good point you make Bill - and as I said before I respect Eric and Karl's mandate.
That probably is way to go - but I do have reservations still on slide drag possibly induced by crud laden grease - my SIG problem proved that for me beyond all doubt.
Bottom line is anyways - clean and relube more rather than less.
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I have used Militec-1 oil on my Sig slides for a very long time without any problems whatsoever. A typical range setting for me is 2-3 hundred rounds through one pistol. When I disassemble for cleaning there is still plenty of oil in the slide and frame grooves. Actually I applied Militec grease to my P210 and racking the slide was very sluggish. I guess mainly due to such tight tolerences. Wiped it off and back to the oil.
IMO the grease thing is overstated, and the only advantages is less chance of getting lub on your cloths and holster. The other is firing a pistol that has been setting in the safe or holstered for quite some time without checking for lub on the slide.
Now with smaller pistols, there may be an entirely different applicable scenario that I am missing, and I would very much like to be educated on those facts.
Tomorrow my new pup heads to the range for some breaking in and I plan to experiment with Militec-1 grease and oil.
Range report provided over the week-end.
Thanks for listening!!
Fred
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Additional lube thoughts.
Still not wishing to go against the R policy but as I have mentioned re my SIG experiences - I am firmly of the opinion that grease ''drag'' can be a factor. I am tho equally cognisant of the need for good lubrication betwen SS slide and allow frame.
I'll just restate my thinking that a good oil will be persistent enough between frequent clean/lube cycles and seems to be a safer bet for carry. The protection needed is primarily for sliding - not compression like auto engine big end shells - and yet modern lubricants can take that enormous load well and so the sliding protection is I feel easily managed.
Tight tolerances and grease are where I feel the potential problem can exist - and I too have noticed on stripping R9 or SIG, that after significant useage, the oil presence is well apparent - it does not get lost.
For all else other than slide I still think grease is best - all the points shown in Eric's pic sequence.
I stress I am only thinking out loud and not making a recommendation to countermand the R policy - Eric may yet chew me out for thinking this way! I will tho for reliability sacrifice my warranty to achieve this and as an aging engineer feel satisfied that I am not in fact prejudicing the gun's wear at all. Strip/clean/lube is no big deal any more even if made way more frequent.
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R9SCarry
Well stated and +1.
Another thought just struck me in comparing small to large pistols that may very well be out in left field, but here goes. Oil placed full length of longer slide/frame, therefore more oil by volume displaced along the entire surface during cycling. Conclusion longer slide =longer oil life per application.
Short slide/frame just the opposite effect. A very light coat of grease my be a better application for short slide/frame
Whew, time for a shot of Wild Turkey 101. ;D
Fred
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Fred - make mine Wild Turkey ;D
I don't think really the slide length will make that big of a difference - it is in a sense just a scale thing. Longer slide/frame more surface area of course but the excursion of movement under cycling will be essentially same whether mini semi or full size.
I certainly have found on my SIG that the Militech1 application is very persistant between routine strip/clean/relube intervals. No drying up at all.
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R9SCarry
Thanks and makes sense. Just to add, and as this subject considering all the variables could be debated to no apparent conclsion, the more slide area contact through cycling, the more opportunity for friction and actual contact with lubricant. Example my Kahr PM9 performed relatively well with grease, whereas my Sig 225, 228, 210 perform OK after warm, but performed much better with an oil application, and I agree 100% Militec-1 oil would be equally efficient to most grease applications for 100+ rds range sessions.
As I mentioned earlier, If I do not get rained out (much rain headed for the Cumberland Plateau this evening) my new pup is going to the range for some exercise tomorrow morning, and grease vs oil will be part of my agenda. Range report later.
Again, Thanks for the conversation!
Visit Crossville someday and I will pour you that drink of Turkey! ;)
Kindest regards, Fred
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I had a spell of concern with my SIG last year - and having used on that Tetra grease and Militech grease, found that the grease was getting ''crud-bound'' - sufficient to slow the slide with drag such that std pressure ammo was giving trouble. +P was OK. Forget round count but it was not a huge thruput.
Well, I sure found myself 'on topic' with my return from vacation post.
My point was all the dynamics of pocket carry are different from other methods. IWB,OWB,Vest, etc., do not necessarily consider body heat, lint, sweat and therefore we must do as the Brothers R insist. Heat migration can't be as big a problem with grease as with oil. Yes, I definitely don't want oil in my pocket, it's a dead giveaway you're packing. Or something;^) So as others have said, clean often. If nothing else, it'll give you something to do;^) Plus, I have a 10,000 year supply of SuperLube...
Hayword N. Edgewise
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>>Not to cause more confusion here but in a recent conversation I had with Eric he told me they are NO LONGER USING GREASE. I did a double take on that given how strongly they had been advising grease.
When I questioned Eric further he just matter of factly said yep - they are now using and advising use of oil, not grease...! Still somewhat in shock I asked what special oil they advised...?...? He said any good gun oil will do. Go figure...?...!
I didn't have a chance to question him further about this during that conversation...but I'm wondering if older guns should still be greased, not oiled...? This is something I would like clarified as I own two early R9s. But meanwhile, I did clean and oil one of my R-9s the other day and took it to the range. Only put one clip through it but it felt and shot great.
If anyone else has a chance to speak with Eric before I do I would appreciate learning about treatment of these older R-9s...TW<<
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My thought is that this was a change in philosophy and
not related to a functional change that would only apply
to newer guns. It could be that some were overdoing the
grease applications and inducing problems but that is only
a speculation.
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TW - it IMO a broad policy change on all the guns - no difference if new or old.
I did for some while before this decision was made public, steer away from grease because of an experience with my SIG 226 ST - getting profound ''grease drag'' with the slide. It occurred after not that much shooting whereby it seemed some crud got mixed in with grease and it all went stiff. Std pressure would result in incomplete slide travel and failure to feed. +P was OK.
Translating this onto the R9 I felt that grease was just too risky for me and switched to Mobil1 or Militec1 - accepting easily that I might well increase my lube schedules if need be.
This is slide only BTW - for me. I still apply grease to pin and barrel lug slot and barrel muzzle area. Thing is IMO - really tight tolerances between slide rails, per 226 and R9 - means very little ''forgivemness'' with drag effects from grease.
I believe the later guns coming out have been fractionally ''eased'' on tolerance too - very tiny amount but probably a beneficial effect.
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>>Hi Chris...
Thanks for your thoughts on the oil vs grease issue. One question though... Where and when did this info come out publically from Rohrbaugh...? I gott tell you I was really surprised to hear this from Eric so matter of factly. Could be I missed something to this effect here on the forum but the closest I found was this thread - which never addressed the changeover. Thanks in advance for your wisdom this issue...TW<<
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Know what?? I am danged if I quite know or remember ;) Really.
It sorta ''came to be known'' and IIRC there has been a change in the latest manual to this effect. I got the new manual copy from Eric last October when he sent me back a frame which had had a seized screw. I posted that info[/ur] to the FAQ site after scanning ....... as to an exact date - not much help. I'd have to ask Eric I guess. (http://www.acbsystems.com/boards/rohrbaugh/basefile/takedown-pic.htm)
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I am very new to the forum and at the risk of sounding stupid Has any one used Eezox to lub the R-9? If so what wer the results? Thanks robert
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No, but Eezox, Slide-glide, Miltec, etc., are all great products
and, no doubt, will serve you well with the pup. I own them
all and would not hesitate to use any of them. Also, Ballistoil,
as recommended by Richard is an excellent product. I bought
that one also but haven't used it yet.
They are all excellent and high quality.
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What Tracker said! They're all great products.
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Hey Guys!
New to the forum. Pick up my first R9 Stealth tomorrow. Very excited? Do I need to clean and lube this pup before heading to the range like other pistols? Please advise...
Also, should I run a bunch of diffrenet ammo through it during the break in period?
Thanks in advance!
Marco
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If your interested check out GunButter. They make an oil and an action grease that is impressive. I use it on all my Nighthhawk 1911's and my AR's. After initial application it stays put, does not migrate and is slicker than you know what. Makes post range clean up very easy. Comes in a needle applicator and you can order it on-line. Very fast shipping.
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I wholeheartedly second the recommendation of Gun Butter;
it is a terrific lubricant. We are very fortunate to have the
selection of so many superb lubrication products. One I don't
think has been mentioned here that has a different purpose
is Corrosion X; it is one of the best protective coats available.
I have used it extensively and it is very effective in a humid
climate.
http://www.corrosionx.com/gun_use.html
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We do indeed have a vast number of lubricants offered to us. I had not heard of GunButter before this and could not resist the urge to place an order. I normally resist impulse buying but failed this time.
I use Wilson's Ultra-Lube Grease on my Kimber and so was able to resist the impulse to add GunButter grease to my order...
Thanks for the suggestion...
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The only thing to watch w. eezox is it will build up. Mine built up on my Pro Carry to the point that my 22 conversion kit wouldn't function anymore. But, it does work really well at blocking corrosion. (I suspect the build up was a result of not shooting that much, but compulsively cleaning and lubing it every time I went shooting.)
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I am very new to the forum and at the risk of sounding stupid Has any one used Eezox to lub the R-9? If so what wer the results? Thanks robert
Hope I am not beating a dead horse here due to the fact that this is an old thread. I have used EEZOX and love it. I also apply a tiny drop of Nanolube here and there and the effect is excellent. Covers all the bases and gives me super results. :)
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We have been using Zep 2000 on all our slide guns now for about a year. I own a small machine shop and so does my brother in law. I got a can from the rep that services his shop. We have not had any malfunctions of any kind on our dozen or so slide guns since we started using it. We usually take 6 of them to the range at a time and we almost always had a fail to feed or jam of some sort at least once. I like that it only takes a light spray to lube the slides and rails, it is very slippery. Even after months I have not found it to change in viscosity or dry up, so it is easy to clean up. It is thinner than Super Lube and is closer to thick oil than a grease but it does not run or sag. For our wheel guns we still use Break Free.
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We have been using Zep 2000 on all our slide guns now for about a year. I own a small machine shop and so does my brother in law. I got a can from the rep that services his shop. We have not had any malfunctions of any kind on our dozen or so slide guns since we started using it. We usually take 6 of them to the range at a time and we almost always had a fail to feed or jam of some sort at least once. I like that it only takes a light spray to lube the slides and rails, it is very slippery. Even after months I have not found it to change in viscosity or dry up, so it is easy to clean up. It is thinner than Super Lube and is closer to thick oil than a grease but it does not run or sag. For our wheel guns we still use Break Free.
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ken, good report and it sounds like a great lube. Tom
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My 2 cents ...A while back sent my Sig to Grayguns for custom work. Spoke to Bruce and at the time he was using Slide-Glide....I've been using it ever since, on all my guns.. Usually go 300-400 rounds (within week or so) before cleaning. Never have noticed crud buildup. Guns are a snap to clean, stuff wipes right off.
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I wholeheartedly agree with you on Slide-Glide--great stuff.
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Hi Everyone,
This is my first post. I spoke with Maria about 6 months ago and as TW stated in an earlier post....Rohrbaugh is recommending oil instead of lube. But I need to qualify this statement. maria told me that what they use is Hornady One Shot or Miltec for the Slide. Mobile 1 for other places......HOWEVER....you can still use lube on the barrel joint, lug and front of muzzle.
I'll make a call down to Rohrbaugh within the next week to see if anything has changed.
Regards to all,
Ed
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Welcome, Ed
It sounds like you have it right. Originally, it was Superlube
grease all the way but I think some of us may have overdone
it and created problems on the overdone side. Also, there are
so many good lubricants now available that weren't in the past.
There are many excellent posts on this issue and are well worth
reviewing.
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popoconnee.
First, welcome to the forum. You'll find a treasure trove of information here, plus a great bunch of helpful Rohrbaugh owners.
+1 on the Slide Glide. Brian Enos, the champion shooter / instructor markets this stuff on his website, http://www.brianenos.com/. I've also seen it advertised lately in several of the mail order houses websites.
I'm sure the quality gun oil recommendation will work fine, but my R9S has been on a grease diet since new and I'm not about "to change what ain't broke". I don't butter up the parts too much, just a bit in the rails, in the muzzle end of the slide, the barrel locking lugs, and wherever I see evidence of contact.
For the fire controls, I bought a lifetime supply of Mobil 1 oil (a quart will last several lifetimes).
Steve
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Thanks for the welcome tracker and sslater. I agree with you Steve...if grease has been working....."if it ain't broke.....don't fix it".
I'm looking forward to reading more of the posts. There is a wealth of information on the site. It's good to be be fellow Rohrbaugh owners who understand this great little pistol.
By the way, I've gotten quick responses and super service from the Rohrbaugh Team.
Ed
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Users of Slide Glide:
Which of the 3 viscosities to you recommend for the pup?
Thanks
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Welcome to the forum, popoconnee. What tracker and Steve said. I use Militec and the lube they sent with the oil. Works very well.
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I use the light grade on my R9S.
Steve
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Hi Everyone.....
Again, I am new to the forum but I am enjoying all the great information on here.
As I mentioned in my first post I planned to call Rohrbaugh on the grease vs. oil question.
I spoke with Maria today....she told me that they were no longer recommending the use of grease or lube. She said "use a quality gun oil....the grease tends to pick up and accumulate dirt".
I ask her if it mattered if it were a new gun or one of the first ones (I have one of the first ones made)..she said it didn't matter.
She told me that they use Hornady One Shot on all of the parts of the pistol at the factory.
Thanks guys.
Ed
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Ed, welcome to the club. You said one of the first ones made,
so it must be a Farmingdale mfg. Do you have the Blue or Black grips?
John
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Hi John,
Thanks for the welcome.
It has black carbon fiber grips. Serial number is 246.
I'd post a photo but I'm not sure how to do that. I don't see an icon to post pics.
Ed
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Ed:
And a welcome from me as well!
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Thank you Richard.
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welcome Ed, enjoy that early one. Tom
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Thank you Sir....
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I may have to back down about not using grease. It looks like grease is mandatory. No ifs, ands, or buts.
I intend to do normal carry with oil only, but always apply grease just before any Non-Emergency shooting.
The owner's manual has the following warning about the warranty.
Lubrication: Use quality grease on the barrel and frame as shown. It is imperative that you use grease in these areas. Failure to do so will cause the frame rails to wear prematurely and void your warranty. You may use quality gun oil for the rest of the firearm.
Thank you! I almost switched to militec -1 exclusively.
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Even though this link doesn't apply to the R9 and the reference to a Kel-Tec may offend some purists I thought that it was quite well done and may be helpful guidance in lubricating any semi-automatic firearm.
I have had similar thoughts about the mixed use of oil and grease.
http://goldenloki.com/gunsmith/keltec/lube.htm
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Thanks, tracker. That shines a new light on lubrication; for me.
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I am trying Lucas assembly lube which is a thick tacky semi synthetic assembly oil. It sticks where you put it & eliminates dry spots on the rails. I'll shoot 50 or so Rds and then check it out. After that I'm going to try Slip Stream from Crusader Weapons.
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OK, specific recommendations from a 30+ year gunsmith, which I trust completely (name withheld).
Products as follows:
for Stainless slides and parts, a specifically formulated lubricant for stainless:
Birchwood Casey RIG +P Stainless Steel lube
For total cleaning/soaking/penetration/freeing up old parts, etc:
KROIL by KANO labs (www.kanolabs.com)
For general lubrication: OneLube SLICK 50
Spray thoroughly on guide rod, rails, barrel hood, whatever, anywhere you like.
When wet, rack slide maybe 12 times.
Wipe off all excess with a paper towel and you're good to go shoot or store or whatever.
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I think it is good that this thread has been brought forward. And there is one paragraph in Tracker's link which, to me, is worthy of particular note:
[size=10]Firearms should be cleaned and re-lubricated after every time they are fired. Even when they have not been fired, they should be cleaned and lubricated on a regular basis. Carry pistols, should be cleaned at least once a month since they are exposed to dust, lint and other contaminants. Guns that sit in a safe can be cleaned less often if not used, but you should clean them a couple times a year.[/size].
Those of us who carry the R9 in the pocket should always be aware of what I call (for lack of a better term) "pocket dreck." Carrying my R9 every day in the right front pocket, I try to maintain a ritual of fieldstripping and cleaning the piece every week or so. I'm sometime surprised at the amount of "dreck" -- lint, dust, crud, stuff, and just plain scum -- which can accumulate in the pistol's internals from just a week or two of pocket carry. (And I don't crawl around in the dirt much anymore. ;D )
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Excellent, Richard. I reread this thread and was reminded of some great lubricants. One that I had completely forgotten about was trackers's suggestion of Corrosion X for humid conditions.
All of these are excellent, for sure, and the cleaning rituals are certainly a good idea. Yep! And good that you are limiting dirt crawling now! :D