The Rohrbaugh Forum
Miscellaneous => Other Guns => Topic started by: tracker on October 09, 2011, 04:00:02 PM
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Has anybody heard of this one coming out by Heizer in St. Louis?
http://heizerfirearms.com/
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Here is a link to the Seecamp Forum.
http://www.seecamp.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1317730011
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Here is the article from Auction Arms
Heizer Defense to make Firearms for Civilian and LE Markets
(GunAuction.com) – Heizer Defense LLC, a new firearms company located in St. Louis, Missouri, will produce pistols incorporating space-age high-tensile alloys, USA manufacturing, and the most current design capabilities.
One partner is Raymond B. Kohout, an entrepreneur with over 32 years in the firearms industry including former ownership of one of the largest retail firearms store in the St. Louis metro area. He also designed and manufactured nylon rifle cases and military nylon holsters.
Another partner is Charles K Heizer, founder of one of the leading Aerospace manufacturing companies in the USA. Other members of the Heizer team bring critical knowledge and experience in mechanical engineering, design and machining of components for the commercial, military and aerospace industries.
The first product to roll off the Heizer production line will be the Tactical Pocket Pistol. Specifics on the product will be announced in November 2011 at the NASGW Show in Reno, Nevada. The company’s website will also be officially launched just prior to the NASGW show at http://heizerfirearms.com/
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interesting.. wonder how the recoil is.. may have to find out..
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Has anybody heard of this one coming out by Heizer in St. Louis?
http://heizerfirearms.com/
Haven't heard of it until now. Thanks. Very interesting, indeed. I'll be following the Heizer .45's introduction to the market. Nice!
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If not price prohibited I will buy one. Looks kinda neat.
I'll have one as well. I like little, big stuff; also big, big stuff; stuff being guns. ;D
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It gives a different perspective to "four-banger."
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I still like the COP Derringer .357, but the price is getting ridiculous. I know; this one is new; low serial no. and discontinued.............
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=254310511
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A lot of bang; a lot of bucks.
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Well with ten and a half hours left and no bids........
I saw one a short time ago on one of the forums go for $650 and it was in like new condition.
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Well with ten and a half hours left and no bids........
I saw one a short time ago on one of the forums go for $650 and it was in like new condition.
I like $650! ;D
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Sent you a PM ;D ;D
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Sent you a PM ;D ;D
Thanks, John! :D
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Just sent you another email. ;D
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Yep! Got it. Thanks! Replied. :D
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OK on to more interesting items, has anyone dug up anymore info on these little gems ?
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I looked for more info yesterday, but didn't find out much more about them. If I have time today I want to reverse engineer their posted picture and see if I can estimate some dimensions. This one may end up on the gotta have list that along with the Masterpiece Arms .380 Protector I've been considering.
I've never had a Ti gun but have always wanted one. This one may help me bust that cherry.
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This still holds my interest as well. We may not know more until the November, 2011, NASGW Show in Reno, as specifics will be announced, that was mentioned in John's post on the previous page. Some leaks may occur, though. :)
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I looked for a phone number for the company but wasn't able to locate one and even if I did I wouldn't be able to call until I get back stateside. :'(
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Found the phone number, 855-243-4937, and gave them a call; did get an answer and they will be updating their web site as they have more information. The individual from Heizer said production would begin 1st qtr. of 2012 and they will be showing the Double Tap in two weeks at the NASGW Show. That's all the info at this time, he explained; no pricing available.
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There you go, something to look forward to :D This one is on my short list. ;D Love the big hole a 45 makes.
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I'm with you, there; like that .45! ;D
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I got busy yesterday, but over coffee this morning I worked on this and now really like what I'm seeing. The only real known information is that the holes in the muzzle have to be at least .451", so using that I was able to make a "life size" version of the image on their website. It's an estimate only as I'm not much of an artist and have no idea what happens to dimensions of shapes as they are rotated, as this image is. I get 3.35" tall and 3.5" long with a width of well under .75". I want one. No, I think I want two. One in the right front pocket and the other in the left rear pocket. This is all just good fun and games so don't hold me to the estimated dimensions. I imagine that recoil will be insane so that's one more good reason to love this gun.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v391/BDSBruce/Blog%20Photos/fb65cba9.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v391/BDSBruce/Blog%20Photos/f583d79b.jpg)
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Ljutic, you do good work! Man, I like that info! :)
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Well done, I don't think you could be far off.
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I heard from an unsubstantiated source that this proposed pistol will also be available in other calibers. We shall see.
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Wow, even more things to look forward to.
I have two guns waiting at home that I purchased while on vacation that I haven't seen other than pictures. :o Gotta love the internet. ;D
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Would be good if the Double Tap had barrels you just switch out. :)
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kj, maybe a 500 S&W :o ;D
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kj, maybe a 500 S&W :o ;D
Yea, John! And I'll let you shoot it first! ;D
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It would be a true two shot, if you made it through two you would never shoot it again. :o for that matter you may never shoot anything again. ;D
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I think this one will top out at .45 ACP.
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It's been six years since my orthopedic surgeon repaired my right arm and shoulder. I might as well test the durability of his work by shooting one of those "bonecrushers." If some part of me breaks or tears, he probably needs some new business anyway.
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It's been six years since my orthopedic surgeon repaired my right arm and shoulder. I might as well test the durability of his work by shooting one of those "bonecrushers." If some part of me breaks or tears, he probably needs some new business anyway.
Great attitude Richard. ;D ;D ;D
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It's been six years since my orthopedic surgeon repaired my right arm and shoulder. I might as well test the durability of his work by shooting one of those "bonecrushers." If some part of me breaks or tears, he probably needs some new business anyway.
Yep! Go for it! :)
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Thank you, gentlemen. I haven't had that much generous encouragement since being urged by two of my fellow Army officers (both of whom remained in the lodge chatting up some of the local Austrian Fräuleins) to ski the Hahnenkamm downhill course at Kitzbühel in 1966. The only thing I broke then was my left ski -- wooden skis still being common back then. I made quite a sight clumping down the edge of the lower half of the Hahnenkamm course with the broken skis over one shoulder. (Somewhere in storage, I still have the forward part of that broken left ski.)
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kj, maybe a 500 S&W :o ;D
That would be the one you let your attacker pry from your hand and let them try to shoot you with while you hunker down and cover your ears. Can you imagine the pressure wave that thing would emit. You would probably be deaf for life if you touched that thing off indoors.
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You may not only end up deaf but in a coma from it bouncing off your forehead. ;D
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http://mousegunaddict.blogspot.com/2011/10/heizer-updates-their-website.html
Some good news and some bad news.
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It is very close to the R9 in length, height, and weight but narrower as you point out. Perceived feel in pocket carry between the two may be similar. The DOUBLETAP may have a slightly less obvious pocket print.
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http://mousegunaddict.blogspot.com/2011/10/heizer-updates-their-website.html
Some good news and some bad news.
Thanks for the info, Ljutic. I'm still interested, as well.
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Decisions, decisions the Doubletap and the R45 may come out around the same time.
It's a no brainer which will be first on the list. ;D
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Just get 'em both! :D
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Thanks for the update LJutic!
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The Heizer PR team pinged me today and asked for FFL info. They may add me to their early reviewer list. I'm stoked. Since I'm only 5 hours away form St. Louis, I asked about a factory tour. I'll keep you posted.
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WOW very cool, I'm jealous. ;D
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Ljutic. Great news. I can see why you're stoked. :)
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Maybe we'll know more on Nov. 12. Remember, Rohrbaugh and Boberg both took a few years to emerge from a concept to a reality.
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How come there are NO pictures on the web of the other side of this gun? And where is the door to the 2 spare rounds at? I think this gun is vaporware and is not a real gun yet. That's just my thoughts as looking for pictures just now.
Got an email today from Ray Kohout of Heizer saying, right side pictures would be on the web site, soon, and that they look just like the left; his words. Stay tuned. :)
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Additionally, they have 9 Principals and key team members listed on their web site which is quite large considering other manufacturing startup staffs. I think this one is for real but it is a long road to the first sales invoice.
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Additionally, they have 9 Principals and key team members listed on their web site which is quite large considering other manufacturing startup staffs. I think this one is for real but it is a long road to the first sales invoice.
I think it's for real, as well, and expecting information soon on availability.
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A gun this small in .45 ACP probably has to be ported but I still have a problem with ported defense handguns because of the inherent danger of hot gases and increased noise level. No doubt, there will be sufficient demand to overcome these objections.
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I think it'll be just fun shooting a .45 this small; it will be interesting.
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Unless I get a range report that says it explodes in your hands, I will end up getting one of these.
But it does make me think about what goes into a decision to carry one of these. It's larger than a Rohrbaugh, slightly heavier empty and it only holds 2 rounds.
I mean why carry a pistol the size of a Rohrbaugh that only shoots 2 rounds, when you can carry a Rohrbaugh that shoots 7 rounds?
The only thing it really has going for it is that it is very slim.
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It could be carried in addition to the R9.
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It could be carried in addition to the R9.
If 7 rounds would not get the job done at the R9's effective range I doubt 2 more would matter.
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Different mission.
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I just like it! ;D
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It could be carried in addition to the R9.
+1, and I always did like a derringer. :)
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why carry it in addition to the R9 - just get another R9.
The only thing that it has over micromatics is that it won't jam or fail to feed, and you can fire it through your pocket and it will be ready to fire the next shot.
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The reason is simple: it is a .45 BUG for close quarters stopping power.
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But it does make me think about what goes into a decision to carry one of these. It's larger than a Rohrbaugh, slightly heavier empty and it only holds 2 rounds.
I'm looking at it as an ideal companion/backup for the P45 or STI Shadow. Plus it's .45 acp. Also I am intrigued by the double action hammer-less design aspect of it. Finally, this would be the first titanium gun I ever owned. Lots of reasons for me to be interested in this one.
Website shows 9mm will also be available so it may well be a great companion for the R9 too.
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I'm going to have to buy it, I know I have to buy it.
At one time I was debating getting a Ruger Police 9, and I sort of talked myself out of it - now I regret it.
I was debating getting an HK 94 when they were first available and I told myself it was too expensive for a carbine. Now I really really regret that.
I also wanted the American Derringer DA-9 and I talked myself out of that and I regret that.
I was going to get the Ruger SP101 in 9mm and I passed on it and I regret it.
No more regrets.
Like I said - unless I find out that this thing explodes, sending deadly shrapnel into my face... I will end up buying this.
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I was going to get the Ruger SP101 in 9mm and I passed on it and I regret it.
Sad story for me recently. Walked into a local shop and there sits a SP101 9mm in very good condition for $450. No box or paperwork. Thought it high considering no box or paperwork so I decided to "think about it" even though I've always regretted not getting a S&W 940 or SP101 9mm when they were both still being made. Checked the Ruger boards to see if the price was reasonable and also that I could still get moon clips for it. Yes on both questions so I went back to the store 2 days later with cash in my pocket and ready to deal. It was gone.........
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Good for you, C0unt; sounds like you've been won over; excellent decision.
I also like the ambidextrous thumb latch; auto ejects spent rds.
http://heizerfirearms.com/barrel_1x1.htm
Ljutic; sorry you missed that SP101; maybe another will come along. Here's hoping.
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I wonder about all the porting, and losing muzzle velocity.
It’s not even toward the muzzle so how much is it going to counter-act muzzle climb?
For the 9mm, I would think that if you port that barrel that much you’d move the 9mm more toward the range of a 380 auto coming out of the longer barrels of some of the larger 380 pistols.
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All easily tested.....just need one in hand to compare it to other 3" .45s.
Just did a ported vs. standard barrel test last weekend. http://mousegunaddict.blogspot.com/2011/10/diamondback-db9-standard-versus.html
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Thanks for sharing the test results. The DB9 Comp barrel looks quite civilized and effective.
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A gun this small in .45 ACP probably has to be ported but I still have a problem with ported defense handguns because of the inherent danger of hot gases and increased noise level. No doubt, there will be sufficient demand to overcome these objections.
None of the current crop of Derringers are ported.
Bond
American Derringer
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Has anybody here shot one of those little cherry bombs?
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I'm surely looking forward to doing so! :) Looked at a Bond .45/410 today at a gun show; came very close to owning it; walked by it, three times, and probably the forth would have done the persuasion; until the next time. :)
This was it! :)
(http://s575.photobucket.com/albums/ss197/kjtrains/014.jpg)
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Looks dangerous to me--cocked and locked not recommended.
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It has a safety, that stays on until hammer is cocked! :D
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Any number of things could cock that hammer besides an intentional thumb move--I'll pass.
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Any number of things could cock that hammer besides an intentional thumb move--I'll pass.
Yep! I passed today, too. Next time, maybe not! ;)
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From the DOUBLETAP Website:
DOUBLETAP MSRP
Non-ported Ported
Aluminum $499 $569
Titanium $729 $799
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Well, I can take that one off the list. :-/
They must have quite a bit of R&D to expense off on each unit. $800 is pretty steep, but it is innovative and unique. I think I'm still in and hope that the street price comes in a shade lower once these start shipping.
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Strange they twittered Happy Halloween this morning, but nothing about having the MSRPs up on the website. I know there were several people asking about MSRP on their Facebook page.
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Also, the .45 ACP and .9mm barrels are interchangeable. I don't know if both barrels come with a single gun purchase or not.
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Also, the .45 ACP and .9mm barrels are interchangeable. I don't know if both barrels come with a single gun purchase or not.
Email received from Ray Kohout saying barrels are purchased separately; didn't ask how much.
I had better clarify that: if you purchase the Double Tap in.45 ACP and want the 9mm barrel, too, it's extra; or vice versa.
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The $799 is a hefty price but if you have ever purchased anything made from Titanium you would know why.
The Bond derringers are in the $500 price range as are the American Derringers and are much bigger and heavier.
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Has anybody here shot one of those little cherry bombs?
I own a couple of Bonds with multiple barrels.
The 45 Colt with factory ammo or the 410 is not my idea of fun to shoot. Howevey with mild reloads it can be.
I haven't shot my 45 acp yet. I shoot 38s all the time in cowboy matches.
I used to own 4 American Derringers, those barrels were not interchangable. I had one in 44 mag. I shot it once with each barrel then put it back in the furtherest darkest place of the safe as possibe. I never wanted to see that gun again. I was so happy when I found out a guy was looking for one.
I think his name was K..., KJ...... ;D
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Any number of things could cock that hammer besides an intentional thumb move--I'll pass.
I really don't follow you there Tracker with my 40 + years of experience with Derringers.
I was always fascinated with them as a kid and got my first German one in 22 when I was 14, I was shooting my Dad's when I was 7 or 8.
I have and have had the cheap Italian ones and have a good Italian one, have some good German ones. I got rid of all of my American Derringers because the Bonds are far superior in every aspect. As I mentioned before I shoot them in competion and they have the mainspring lightened and still no accidental cocking.
The hammers take intentional force to cock. Trust me, you can't accidently cock them. They take more force than on a Smith or Colt. Given that, why carry a external hammered revolver?
When I was young and dumb I used to carry a German 38 loose in my pocket with no issues. Now don't get me wrong, I am not advocating carrying a Derringer for CCW. There are much better choices. But if one just has to carry one, at least pick one with a trigger gaurd like the Bond or the Double Tap. And the scales tip even further towards the Double Tap by being hammerless just as a "bump" factor or fumble factor. And by being light. The Bonds are heavy for a small gun.
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I was referring to the pocket carry aspect and Murphy's Law, but I defer to your experience.
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Gotcha ;)
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New video and details. Looks very cool. Speed strip and everything.
http://mousegunaddict.blogspot.com/2011/11/heizer-doubletap-video-tons-of-details.html
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Gotta love the thought of these guns making it to the market!!!
If it is thin enough,it would fit great in a front T shirt pocket!! ;)
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I tried to watch the video, but the connection is painfully slow so I will have to check it out at a later time. :'(
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I love unique firearms. Sure we all have guns that are far more practical than this, but I sure would like to get my hands on one when they make it to market.
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I like that porting is an option. I wouldn't want to have a ported 9mm barrel. When I choose a SD load like Ranger T or HST, or Critical Defense or Golden Sabre or whatever... I'm making some assumptions about how that round performs. I'm usually basing those assumptions on bare or 4-Ply denim ordinance gelatin tests out of a 3" barrel - when I can find those test results. Porting changes the muzzle velocity and changes those assumptions. And it's not like we're talking just 1 or even 2 ports here - the initial model showed 5 ports!
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A knife cuts because the very narrow cutting edge concentrates force onto a small area. The very thin R9 has brisk recoil. I would worry that the even narrower grip on this weapon would try to cut a swatch through the thumb web on the shooting hand, at least in the titanium version .45 ACP. I'll be interested in range reports.
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Just my thoughts only; I'm thinking a good shooting glove would prevent the cutting of the thumb web while shooting the Double Tap at the range, and if you carry it as a backup or by itself, and have the need to use it, you're not going to notice what it does to your hand during those circumstances.
May not need the glove; just have to see.
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I am not a fan of small 45's anyway, but you guys can have one that is less than .70 inch thick and weighs `14 oz.. With 2 shots it is a backup only in my opinion, and the R9 makes more sense as a back-up to me.
It would sure be a conversation piece at the range though.
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Just my thoughts only; I'm thinking a good shooting glove would prevent the cutting of the thumb web while shooting the Double Tap at the range, and if you carry it as a backup or by itself, and have the need to use it, you're not going to notice what it does to your hand during those circumstances.
May not need the glove; just have to see.
Agree that you may not notice the pain with two shots in an emergency situation. Hard to use a padded glove with any small pistol, esp. what is essentially a derringer. I would have trouble carrying anything as a primary weapon that I was unwilling to shoot at the range.
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This is one I would like to pop before dropping eight Franklins on it.
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Hopefully I'll have the chance to try one and let you guys know if it's naughty or nice. I can't imagine it would be any worse than a .380 Seecamp or a Smith 340 with .357s in it.
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I think about this little gun all the time now.
I was thinking about while walking into the grovery store yesterday.
One of the things it does well, like revolvers or all Derriners is shoot everything it's loaded with - so you get two shots for sure without having to worry about a FTE or a jam.
I can see it in the role of a trail gun with snake loads in it. But a revolver with 38spl snake loads would work just as well i suppose.
I read a lot about the micro-matics having afinity for one particular brand and bullet weight, and either not being able to fire +P or requiring heavier than 115gr ammo etc...
One thing about this little gun is you can put whatever you want in there from 100gr to 147gr... you don't need to cycle a slide.
So I do like that.
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Or 185 to 230 grain. ;D
Blog updated to include a link to a video interview with Ray Kohout, who invented the DoubleTap. http://mousegunaddict.blogspot.com/2011/11/heizer-doubletap-video-tons-of-details.html Looks great in his hands. Super slim, but still big enough not to get lost in your pocket.
I can see toting one in a simple back pocket clip on leather sleeve. Maybe something like this, but with the clip moved to the top of the case. Not really needed, but it would add a touch of security. http://www.amazon.com/Swiss-Leatherware-Pull-Tab-Protective-iPhone/dp/B004DI7ET0/ref=pd_sbs_cps_16
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The ball bearing trigger design is innovative and very interesting.
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Good to see Ray Kohout in person through the video and to see the actual Double Tap; thanks, Ljutic.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwJ9xZ5tutg
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The video is better straight off of YouTube for some reason.
Could not get it to play from Mouseguns.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A98X0ruMGGM&feature=related
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Thanks for the videos. Looks very inovative as far as the mechanism goes, but a little short on grip surface. Looking forward to Ljutic's review.
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I'm looking forward to the review also. :D
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The Aluminum is also way cheaper.
I wonder if the Aluminum will hold up in a Derringer configuration like that.
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Thanks for the videos. Looks very inovative as far as the mechanism goes, but a little short on grip surface. Looking forward to Ljutic's review.
Me too! I hope they determine I make the cut for their evaluation/review release. As of now, I have not heard back since sending in my info and transfer dealer details. First quarter is just around the corner.
Read a recent twitter from Heizer that their first year sales goal is $10 million. Estimating $650 per sale as some will probably ship with both calibers, that works out to about 15,000 units. Their production facility must be impressive to crank out more than 1000 per month.
Isn't Boberg doing 80 per month? I read some number, but 80 might not be right.
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Boberg is trying to work up to 80 per month is my understanding. KJ's #78 was just shipped last week.
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Me too! I hope they determine I make the cut for their evaluation/review release. As of now, I have not heard back since sending in my info and transfer dealer details. First quarter is just around the corner.
Read a recent twitter from Heizer that their first year sales goal is $10 million. Estimating $650 per sale as some will probably ship with both calibers, that works out to about 15,000 units. Their production facility must be impressive to crank out more than 1000 per month.
Isn't Boberg doing 80 per month? I read some number, but 80 might not be right.
Thats some pretty impressive numbers if its true. :o
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Now I want one Twice as much. ;D ;D
I guess it will need to be renamed the Quad Tap.
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Or maybe a four banger.
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tracker I think I like that better. ;D
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Any new news on the Heizer?
Yes indeed, and it was good news. I'm confirmed for T&E. Updated info on the blog. http://mousegunaddict.blogspot.com/2011/12/unique-opportunity-to-review-heizer.html (http://mousegunaddict.blogspot.com/2011/12/unique-opportunity-to-review-heizer.html)
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Ljutic great news for sure, looking forward to the reviews. ;D
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Any new news on the Heizer?
Yes indeed, and it was good news. I'm confirmed for T&E. Updated info on the blog. http://mousegunaddict.blogspot.com/2011/12/unique-opportunity-to-review-heizer.html (http://mousegunaddict.blogspot.com/2011/12/unique-opportunity-to-review-heizer.html)
Great news, for sure, Ljutic. Thanks for the link and your info.
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I saw a full page color ad for the Double Tap in one of the gum magazines today.
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Excellent. They're starting to get serious! :)
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That's a whole lot better! :) Well, maybe not a whole lot, but some better!
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I saw that blog when it was retweeted recently. Not sure why they didn't run a few rounds through it since they were at the range.
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What happened to the mojo on the DOUBLETAP?
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I haven't seen any recent activity on the Double Tap.
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Maybe they got tapped out.
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Maybe so. I was looking forward to seeing one of these.
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They are scheduled to be at the NRA show in STL on Apr. 13-15; we shall see. It is not an easy business.
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I've been looking on GunBroker, thinking someone would get one on there, but no luck so far. I thought it to be highly unlikely, but you never know.
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What happened to our resident Heizer company evaluator, Ljutic?
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He's still posting on other threads; must not have any recent info on the DT. Maybe he'll chime in soon.
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Did anyone see the Heizer, "Hedy Jane", at the recent NRA show in STL?
http://heizerfirearms.com/
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Get them on the market already. ;D ;D
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Get them on the market already. ;D ;D
I've been looking for it, John. Haven't seen one yet. Maybe I'm not looking at the right places. ;D
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What happened to our resident Heizer company evaluator, Ljutic?
I'm still waiting too. Not sure where they have me positioned on the T&E line up. I hope I get one early so I can get my review up ahead of the usual suspects. I'm going to be super bummed out if I'm not part of the first group to go out since they added me to their list last October.
I'm getting my shipment updates from their Twitter feed so I don't have any additional inside scoop for you. Plus, I'm not going to nag them about the release date. If they still want me to be part of the review crew, I am sure they will let me know.
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Thanks for the update.
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Heizer isn't doing themselves any favors on Twitter and Facebook with their continued new accessories announcements. This recent exchange pretty much sums up the overall feeling about Heizer and the DoubleTap with many of the folks that were ready to jump on the DoubleTap bandwagon.
I sent a note to their PR Team a week ago about the T&E program and when it might start. I didn't receive a reply.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v391/BDSBruce/Wireless/b87fd45d.jpg)
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Can't believe they did this. Isn't Mother's Day like 2 days away? Heizer DoubleTap, the vapor-weapon. That's going to leave a mark.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v391/BDSBruce/Wireless/c76aa208.jpg)
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I emailed Heizer on May 3rd to see when the DoubleTap would be shipping out. They responded the next day.
We will begin shipping guns in about 6 weeks.
Raymond Kohout
HEIZER FIREARMS LLC
ST LOUIS MO USA EARTH
office 855 243 4937
fax 855 243 1122
cell 314 280 1411
rkohout@heizerfirearms.com
www.heizerfirearms.com
the 'USA EARTH' in the address made me chuckle a little bit!
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A new DoubleTap update for you including Ray using a DoubleTap at the range. http://mousegunaddict.blogspot.com/2012/05/heizer-doubletap-update.html (http://mousegunaddict.blogspot.com/2012/05/heizer-doubletap-update.html)
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I did get a note recently that I'm still on their list for T&E so that was good.
This was not so good. Probably won't impact anything made so it might be a good idea to get one of the original batch in case a name change is required down the road.
http://mousegunaddict.blogspot.com/2012/06/hornady-vs-heizer-defense.html (http://mousegunaddict.blogspot.com/2012/06/hornady-vs-heizer-defense.html)
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You couldn't give me anything with the name of hornady on it.
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You couldn't give me anything with the name of hornady on it.
I still use Hornady .44 mag 300gr. hollow points; no problems. :)
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FYI,
I put in an order with one of the distributors listed on the Heizer site. I was not given any time line on a delivery. So I sent an email to Heizer sale from their web site. I heard today shipments should start in September or October of this year.
I had ordered the non-ported aluminum frame model. It is the least expensive and lightest. I then email the distributor back to say I would take whatever comes available first. I will keep you posted on any developments.
Which will come first the Heizer or the R45?
Robar233
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It will be the Heizer by a nose.
-
It will be the Heizer by a nose.
And a $1200 to $1500+ lower price tag. :o
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FYI,
I put in an order with one of the distributors listed on the Heizer site. I was not given any time line on a delivery. So I sent an email to Heizer sale from their web site. I heard today shipments should start in September or October of this year.
I had ordered the non-ported aluminum frame model. It is the least expensive and lightest. I then email the distributor back to say I would take whatever comes available first. I will keep you posted on any developments.
Which will come first the Heizer or the R45?
Robar233
Neither one is on my short list.
-
FYI,
I put in an order with one of the distributors listed on the Heizer site. I was not given any time line on a delivery. So I sent an email to Heizer sale from their web site. I heard today shipments should start in September or October of this year.
I had ordered the non-ported aluminum frame model. It is the least expensive and lightest. I then email the distributor back to say I would take whatever comes available first. I will keep you posted on any developments.
Which will come first the Heizer or the R45?
Robar233
Neither one is on my short list.
MRC:
In reviewing your posts to the Forum, it seems that you spend a lot of time expressing your disdain for the Rohrbaugh line of pistols while expressing great admiration for other handguns such as the Boberg XR9 and the Kimber Solo. Since this is the "Unofficial Rohrbaugh Firearms Forum" supported by contributions from its members and the rotating banner of which proclaims it to be "A Gathering Place for Rohrbaugh Firearms Enthusiasts," it seems only fair to ask: What is your agenda, and whom are you hoping to convert?
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I have no agenda and I am seeking no converts. I thought this is in the "Other Guns" section and has nothing to do about Rohrbaugh guns.
I just stated that I am not in the market for a 12 oz. 45 ACP Derringer nor a $2500 compact 45 ACP DAO pistol.
Don't fall off your soapbox.
-
Sir, I have no soapbox. However, it would never occur to me to use another forum -- perhaps by way of example the Boberg Forum -- to criticize the products for which it was established. Let's just call it a matter of common courtesy and leave it at that.
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All,
I was not looking to start a controversy! My interest in the Heizer is purely to carry in the yard while doing yard work. The LWS .32 does not like my sweaty front pocket. I was thinking one ball round and one bird shot for four legged critters. The only way I would want a two shot derringer off property would be as a back-up to another pistol.
More importantly, I sure as heck hope that a base model R45 is only $1400-$1600! I hope over 2K is WAY OFF!
Robar233
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Robar233 - FYI
Here is a reply from DD Gator from the R45 threads on pricing. Everything in maroon is DD's quote.
« Reply #14 on: January 23, 2012, 10:13:56 PM »QuotePrice is not established yet, but will be north of $2,000 and probably north of $2,500.
To call the R45 a competitor to the Glock or Kahr is like calling the R-9 a competitor to the Diamondback DB9. Think more like Les Baer or Wilson Combat...
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How can a comparison of the R45 be made to anything since it isn't on the market yet?
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MRC,
Thanks for the quote. I have not looked closely at the R45 posts. I really did not want to get my hopes up that high. I had no idea it was going to be that much more than a special edition R9.
I bought my Robar edition because I traded in an ASP that I never carried for it. This order was placed after reading extensively the posts on this forum. I only got to look at a full engraved special edition R9 when I decided to order a R9. K5 Arms told me there was a special edition due out soon that he would be getting. An even trade would be doable for this model given the value of the ASP.
If the R45 is not going to be a pocket pistol and it is going to be north of $2K I will have to think long and hard about getting one. At the very least it will have to be a hands on decision.
Robar233
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Relatively speaking, the R45 at north of $2,000 is less of a risk than some of us made when we placed our orders for the R9 in 2004, sight unseen. There was no "hands on." Whether it suits one's purpose or not is a different matter; that is a marketing issue and will ultimately determine its success or failure.
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Following is a recent letter from Ray Kohout, Heizer Defense President, updating the DoubleTapTM. There is a cover article on the gun in "Guns & Ammo" Sept. issue. Apparently, they plan to begin shipments to distributors in Sept.
Heizer Defense LLC
P: 855-2HEIZER
(855-243-4937)
www.heizerdefense.com
Aerospace Technology Firearms
To our valued customers:
Since HEIZER FIREARMS first introduced our new innovative Tactical Pocket Pistol the DoubleTapTM in November of last year at the NASGW show in Reno Nevada we have been overwhelmed with positive response and have orders for literally tens of thousands of pistols, beyond our wildest expectations.
During final engineering and testing of the DoubleTapTM as we came closer to full production we went from original Experimental Revision 1 guns to what are now Revision 8 Production guns. The final production guns incorporate over a dozen notable improvements (see below) and 7 patents pending transforming the original concept DoubleTapTM from what we introduced as a cool gun to an awesome gun.
Our original aggressive timeline to enter series production was scheduled for the first quarter of 2012. In order to incorporate all of the latest improvements into the DoubleTapTM we have now scheduled a vastly increased production schedule in an attempt to meet demand for the second quarter of 2012.
I sincerely apologize for this delay, however it is and always will be my direction within the company to produce new, innovative, state of the art aerospace technology firearms and if this calls for delays before full production begins, I am sure our customers will understand and appreciate this.
Revision 8 Production Model Improvements and Enhancements: Front and rear low profile no snag sights Melanite finish on stainless steel barrel assemblies Rockwell 65 Mil-Std CeraKote finish on Titanium frames and Hard Anodizing on Aluminum Lanyard pin on rear of grip
Serrations on the trap door compartment A stronger needle bearing instead of ball bearing in the double action trigger system A channel machined into the spare round compartment to secure rounds Squared off the front of the 1911 style trigger for better ergonomics Enlarged the HD pattern on the integral grips for more texture Enlarged the rear palm swell area of the frame to reduce recoil climb Simplified the ejector system for reliability Engineered a “safe” hammer position to enhance safety
Additionally we have worked with major manufactures in the industry including DeSantis, Pelican and First Spear to introduce an exclusive line of accessories for the DoubleTapTM
Please stay tuned to our website at www.heizerfirearms.com or www.facebook.com\HeizerFirearms or https://twitter.com/heizerdefense for the most relevant shipping information.
Sincerely,
Raymond B. Kohout Founder HEIZER FIREARMS, LLC
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All,
What do you think aluminum or titanium frame? Which way would you go? The Ti is almost $200 more and it is 2 oz's heavier! Why spend more money for a gun that is a heavier pocket pistol. As for ported vs. non-ported I am not concerned about muzzle flip that much to spend the extra $$$.
Robar233
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I have been giving that subject some thought and I think I would go with the Ti non-ported. The reason being is that I live in a very humid environment and also feel that the slight extra weight might help with the recoil. For two shots in self defense the ported version makes little sense with the burn injury possibility.
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Titanium is heavier than Aluminum but lighter than Steel.
Aluminum is stiffer than Titanium or Steel so Titanium
should handle recoil better than Aluminun and is stronger
than Steel but is only slightly heavier while being less
corrosive than Aluminum or Steel.
So the down side is that it is slightly heavier and more
expensive. The upside is its indestructible and handles
recoil better. I guess their still is no free lunch.
I would buy an R9s Titanium.
When I bought my Wheelchair I could have bought it in
Steel , Aluminum or Titanium. I picked Aluminun for its
lightness. If I had to do it over again I would pick Titanium
as my first choice and Steel as my second. Aluminum
would be last.
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I'm hoping to get the aluminum 45 and would also prefer to skip the porting. Ti is cool and would be a first, but if I'm going for Ti it would have to be this pistol.
http://www.sviguns.com/1202.php (http://www.sviguns.com/1202.php)
Maybe a 50th birthday gift for myself? ;D
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The TIKI-T may have a nickname of 10K. I read they use 4 or 5 different Ti alloys in various parts of the gun. It looks indestructible, though.
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Those are the strangest sights I've ever seen.
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I'm hoping to get the aluminum 45 and would also prefer to skip the porting. Ti is cool and would be a first, but if I'm going for Ti it would have to be this pistol.
http://www.sviguns.com/1202.php (http://www.sviguns.com/1202.php)
Maybe a 50th birthday gift for myself? ;D
There is an Infinity for sale at a local Gun Shop/ Range $7400 give or take a couple hundred, can't remember the hundreds but the 7K I remember. ;D It was a beautiful piece though.
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Here are my thoughts.
I'm interested in the 9mm.
I have no interest in holding on to something that lobs 230 grains of lead at 900+ feet per second.
For 9mm, I think the short barrel already reduces the velocity of the bullet and i don't want to reduce it any more with porting to gain some slight advantage in controllign muzzle flip. Of course, I haven't fired one yet.. I might change my mind if I were able to test fire someone's and see for myself that the porting did make a difference.
Are the barrels Titanium? I'm not sure if those are Titanium barrels... if anyone knows the answer please chime in.
If I thought the Aluminum would hold up adequately, I'd get it in Aluminum. There is a huge price difference between the Aluminum and Titanium.
Also thought about getting two - one in Titanium and one in Aluminum, practicing with the Titanium and only carrying the Aluminum - sort of like the Rohrbaugh - to be carried often and fired seldom or something like that...
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What model SVI was for sale for $7400? Brandon's guns can get that high, but most of them run 4-5K...
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The DoubleTap frames are either aluminum or titanium and the barrels are stainless steel on both models.
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What model SVI was for sale for $7400? Brandon's guns can get that high, but most of them run 4-5K...
I didn't really look that close, it was in a case just above eye level and across the room from the checkout counter and I didn't have enough interest to call one of the sales people over. ;D I don't go there very ofter because it's almost two hours from me.
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Well I was at the shop today that has the SVI, according to the tag on the gun it is a Tiki model and the price is $7900. :o
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That could be the next Farmingdale curio equivalent.
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Well I was at the shop today that has the SVI, according to the tag on the gun it is a Tiki model and the price is $7900. :o
My 50th is coming up next year and I don't wear a watch. I'm skipping the Rolex and going for the Tiki. ;D
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I think we'll be seeing these in stores soon. The DoubleTap made the cover of the September issue of Guns&Ammo.
http://mousegunaddict.blogspot.com/2012/08/heizer-doubletap-cover-story.html (http://mousegunaddict.blogspot.com/2012/08/heizer-doubletap-cover-story.html)
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Hopefully that is true. And I believe it to be.
However, vaporware has graced the covers of gun magazines before.
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My lgs has them on order and I told him to hold me a 45 non ported Aluminum model.
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Another DoubleTap sighting.
http://mousegunaddict.blogspot.com/2012/08/heizer-doubletap-sighting.html (http://mousegunaddict.blogspot.com/2012/08/heizer-doubletap-sighting.html)
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You have a sharp eye my freind to catch that in 0.5 seconds! 8)
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You have a sharp eye my freind to catch that in 0.5 seconds! 8)
They don't call me eagle eye for nothin'. ;D
The patio we were partying on has a VERY large screen TV. I really couldn't believe it when I saw it.
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Eagle eyes for sure!
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Now we just need some actual Double Tap sightings. ;D 8)
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Has anyone heard what the heck is taking so long? I have had one (any model) on order for two months. I called the wholesaler and they said they have not gotten any yet.
Any information would be greatly appreciated.
Robar233
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The R9 came out about two years after we expected it. The DoubleTap is now on production revision #8 and they are overwhelmed with orders. I think they are just taking all precautions to get it right the first time.
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I can't believe it's been about a year since I first mentioned this pistol and that the ship date has slipped so much in the intervening months. If it's any indication of anything, Bud's removed all Heizer listings from their website this week. Previously they had them all listed, including the white Hedy Jane model.
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Anybody catch the show Person of Interest, the girl uses a Double Tap ported model to do a double tap on a guy.
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I think its a bad sign that Buds removed them.
Charter Arms made a press release about 10 weeks ago that the 9mm PITBULL rimless revolver was being released. No one has one yet, and Centerfire Systems took the 9mm PITBULL out of their catalog.
My opinion is that the ads were generating calls by interested customers - but they were a waste of time for Centerfire so they just pulled it out of the catlog at least that's my opinion.
Bud's mat have done the same with the Double Tap.
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When did Charter Arms go back into business
or is it just the name?
John, I did see the Double Tap, very cool!
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Anybody catch the show Person of Interest, the girl uses a Double Tap ported model to do a double tap on a guy.
I set the DVR for the season premier because that was when I thought I would see the DoubleTap, but forgot to reset for the second episode. Thought I might be able to catch it on HULU+ or My Primetime, but CBS doesn't participate in either program. I missed it.
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The way it looks that may be the only one we ever see being shot outside of the videos on there site. ;D
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Others on the waiting list,
I emailed Heizer this past week to ask about the time line of deliveries, I have had one on order for a couple of months. I have an opportunity for a good deal on something else now. The reply was good news for me. Deliveries "will not start in the next six weeks". This allows me to buy the good deal now and be able to buy the Doubletap when it comes out later.
Robar233
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I found out that the reason that CenterFire Systems removed the Charter Arms 9mm PITBULL had nothing to do with slow deliver time.
Charter Arms raised the cost to distributors / retailers by $90.00 and I guess that made them angry so they dropped it from their catalog.
I like the idea of the DoubleTap. I think the action is probably a lot more reliable than a semi-auto , so I like the idea that you 99.999% for sure have two shots. But it's so close dimensionally to the Rohrbaugh R9 and so close in weight. I just think, why not just get an R9? And if I'm looking for a BUG, why not get an R9? If the R9 is your primary, then another R9 makes the perfect BUG to your primary.
Rohrbaugh R9
Length:5.2"
Height:3.7"
Weight:13.5 oz
Capacity:6+1 Rounds
Heizer DoubleTap
Length:5.5"
Height:3.9"
Weight:14 oz - Titanium 12 oz Aluminum
Capacity:2 Rounds
The double tap is a little over a ¼ inch longer than the R9 and either a half once heavier or only 1½ oz lighter, and it only holds two rounds.
I have to admit that I really want the Heizer DoubleTap due to the neato factor, I'm just not sure it makes sense though.
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I agree but the .45 ACP would tip the scales for some potential buyers. Apparently, their order books are full but we shall see.
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As Bones would say to Captain Kirk. It's dead Jim.
At least for a bit longer.....but I really wonder who has the excess capacity to pick this up and run with it.
http://mousegunaddict.blogspot.com/2012/10/heizer-defense-doubletap-delay-explained.html (http://mousegunaddict.blogspot.com/2012/10/heizer-defense-doubletap-delay-explained.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v391/BDSBruce/Blog%20Photos%202/DoubleTapUpdate_zps06dde138.jpg)
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And Sadly :'(, another new gun prospect joins the ranks of:
The new Bren Ten
The new Auto Mag
The new Merwin Hulbert, to name a few.
All of whom had recent deaths, or rather the inability to be reborn.
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Tapped out.
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I thought it was WAY overpriced.
You could pick up a good Name
Brand Revolver or Auto for less.
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Well that really stinks! I thought it would be the perfect "yard gun". A pocket pistol I would carry in sweaty, dirty, pants doing manual labor in the yard. Yes, it was only two rounds, but what rounds they are!
>:( :( :'( Robar233
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Hopefully that is true. And I believe it to be.
However, vaporware has graced the covers of gun magazines before.
You Sir, are wise beyond your years.
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I hope someone pick them up and starts making them.
I don't think that they were WAY over priced, if you looked at other GOOD quality derringers (Bond or American) they are in the $300 to $500 range and there just heavy steel derringers. This was a whole new concept with the Aluminum or Titanium frames, anything made from Titanium is very pricey.
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How many gun manufacturers have the ability to tool Titanium?
I wonder how well the Aluminum holds up compared to the Titanium?
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It would make a good pocket snake gun with shot shells, but except for use as a BUG and the "cool factor" I don't see a lot of value otherwise. It's not that easy to hit a moving target at even 5 yards, and two shots may not be enough in spite of the louder "band" from the .45. As all here and elsewhere agree, after situational awareness, shot placement is the operative factor, but not always easy to accomplish...more rounds=more opportunity. Just my opinion.
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It would make a good pocket snake gun with shot shells, but except for use as a BUG and the "cool factor" I don't see a lot of value otherwise. It's not that easy to hit a moving target at even 5 yards, and two shots may not be enough in spite of the louder "band" from the .45. As all here and elsewhere agree, after situational awareness, shot placement is the operative factor, but not always easy to accomplish...more rounds=more opportunity. Just my opinion.
I have to agree John. With a thickness of 5/8" and the flat slab sides, I question the shootability of the 12 oz. 45 ACP,
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When I first read about the Double Tap - they only had info about it being the smallest .45 and I immediately thought "there is no way I am going to shoot a .45 that small.." But at the end of the press release there was a blurb that the DoubleTap would be offered in 9mm, and then I became interested in the little 2 shot.
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My BTJ in .38 Special isn't what I would describe
as unpleasant to shoot. I don't think it would be
unreasonable in a .45ACP/Special/Long Colt etc.
though you would definitely know your shooting
it. (It only came in .38 Spl & .9mm)
The BTJ did come in a 9mm but the shells
needed to be picked out with ones fingernails
rather than be lifted out like the .38 Special
by the Break Top Handle. I would have preferred
a 9mm but how they need to be removed was
unreasonable, IMO.
The Barrels are Stainless Steel the Frame is
Aluminum and the Grips are Walnut. It had
been used much in the past but is now mostly
unloved. And yes...that is a Frame mounted
safety near the upper part of the Grip!
If you needed to conceal in your Speedos then
the BTJ has value, other than that I don't see
much of a contest between the BTJ and the Pup
though for a small person the BTJ would hide in
a pocket where the Pup may not. I would like
a Double Tap but not at its asking price. I don't
consider it a reasonably good value.
(http://imageshack.us/a/img845/6439/r9sandbtjcopy.jpg)
(http://imageshack.us/a/img72/9150/btjr9scopy.jpg)
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I wanted one of those in 9mm and I was always sorry I didn't get one, although I didn't know the spents cases to be pryed out manually with your fingernails.
-
Yes, their isn't anyway to lift
them free from the chamber
like a .38 Special Type round
which has a rim at the base of
the brass. I wanted a 9mm
because of its higher pressure
will usually outperform an
equivalent weight Projectile
in a .38 Special.
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Note to entrepreneurs: another good example of how NOT to handle a product release.
If they ever do get someone to reliably manufacture the Double Tap, they will have a much harder time filling orders because they only succeeded in pissing off thousands of potential customers who now distrust them.
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I wanted one of those in 9mm and I was always sorry I didn't get one, although I didn't know the spents cases to be pryed out manually with your fingernails.
Don't know why 45 ACP would be any different for Double Tap.
The Bond and American Derringer function the same way.
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I had a 9mm derringer and you didn't have to pluck the empties out with your fingernails, the extractor worked just fine. ;D
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I had a 9mm derringer and you didn't have to pluck the empties out with your fingernails, the extractor worked just fine. ;D
What make was it ?
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When I first read about the Double Tap - they only had info about it being the smallest .45 and I immediately thought "there is no way I am going to shoot a .45 that small.." But at the end of the press release there was a blurb that the DoubleTap would be offered in 9mm, and then I became interested in the little 2 shot.
Compare doubletap 2 vs R9 7 in nearly similar packages. R9 every time if 9mm considered.
-
Note to entrepreneurs: another good example of how NOT to handle a product release.
If they ever do get someone to reliably manufacture the Double Tap, they will have a much harder time filling orders because they only succeeded in pissing off thousands of potential customers who now distrust them.
Ya - and Charter Arms with their 9mm CARR (now called PITBULL in 9mm), it's suppossedly been coming out soon FOREVER
I wrote the company an e-mail on July 11th asking when the revolver would be coming out and Dee Ecker wrote that they were shipping to distributors but they were already backordered by 12 weeks.
Well it's been more than 12 weeks and those revolvers are nowhere to be seen - they're not in the hands of distributors.
I've basically given up on getting one of those, and by the time they do come out my money will probably already be spent. I'll probably buy an Alfa Proj import instead - The 3" revolver in 9mm sold out fast this year, Dan at Czechpoint USA said they're getting more in January.
So much for Charter Arms...
-
I'm sure that the Charter Arms that is in business
today isn't the same Charter Arms of the past. For
whatever thats worth.
I use to have a Model 60 Smith. My friend had the
Charter Arms equivalent model pistol to the 60. I
pock carried or carried under my arm in a Leather
Holster that suspended the 60 Upside Down. He
carried the same way.
His Charter Arms would develop Surface Rust. We
switched for a month and it would rust for me as well
but the 60 remained free of Surface Rust so it wasn't
his fault the Charter Arms rusted. YES, it was cleaned
properly and wiped down regularly. Cheap Stainless
I guess.
I wanted a Chartes Arms Bulldog .44 Special in Stainless
until the rust issue. I ended up selling him my 60 and I
bought a Browning Hi-Power in 9mm. Had to defeat its
HORRIBLE magazine safety! Hate it when a gun CAN"T
go bang when the trigger is pulled. I guess nothin's
perfect.
I guess the point I'm trying to make is.......will the
current Charter Arms be a higher quality then in
its past? I don't remember any Gun Magazine
reporting on a Rust issue with Charter Arms pistols.
Of course, the Internet would expose any problems.
Al Gore hadn't invented the Internet for us back then.
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I really did not think these would ever make it to the marketplace but here they are.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=345671800
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=345569544
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I would be leery of these coming up for sale now without knowing if they are in full production or not. Here is a link and update that mentions their manufacturing partner, Azimuth Technology, LLC, out of Florida. It looks like they have made some enhancements from the original prototypes. I still think I would give it some time before purchase consideration. Heizer is out of it but whose name still pulls up the link.
http://heizerfirearms.com/
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It's a long strange story. Heizer is now coming out with their own version of the Doubletap. From my understanding, they have a 2 shot as well as a single shot in 410/45LC.
Ray Kohout moved his interests away from Heizer and partnered with Azimuth for production, packing, shipping, etc. Ray founded Doubletap Defense as the name of his new venture without Heizer involvement.
Still don't know if or when I'll be getting a T&E for review. So much time has gone by since 10/2011, I'm probably way down or off their list now. I guess we'll see what happens over the next few months.
Funny how we had zero new Derringer models in the market and now we have 3.
-
and here is the Heizer Pocket Shotgun; since it looks very similar to the DoubleTap this should be an interesting odyssey to follow in the future.
http://heizerdefense.com/
-
The product page has the HD1 and HD2 pictured.
http://heizerdefense.com/products.html (http://heizerdefense.com/products.html)
-
and here is the Heizer Pocket Shotgun; since it looks very similar to the DoubleTap this should be an interesting odyssey to follow in the future.
http://heizerdefense.com/
:o
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http://www.google.com/search?q=doubletap+shotgun&num=50&client=firefox-a&hs=sb3&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=T3_QUclVyvPKAeGRgfAH&ved=0CFEQsAQ&biw=1024&bih=608
50+ pics
-
I picked one up today in 45 at the local gun shop, hope to shoot it tomorrow.
It's not particularly pretty but feels good in my hand.
(http://i413.photobucket.com/albums/pp216/yankee2500/IMG_1523.jpg) (http://s413.photobucket.com/user/yankee2500/media/IMG_1523.jpg.html)(http://i413.photobucket.com/albums/pp216/yankee2500/IMG_1524.jpg) (http://s413.photobucket.com/user/yankee2500/media/IMG_1524.jpg.html)
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* * *
It's not particularly pretty but feels good in my hand.
* * *
John:
That sounds like a blind date one of my frat brothers arranged for me back in college. ;)
Congratulations on being the first one to report bagging an elusive Doubletap, and good luck with it at the range session. I'll be looking forward to your report.
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Yes, please let us know how it goes, and congrats!
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I only had a few minutes today to take the hand cannon out back and shoot it. I meant to grab six rounds of 230gr ball ammo but actually only grabbed five. lol Popped the barrels open and dropped two in closed it and took aim on a hanging twenty pound propane tank, (old and empty) I like it because it's roughly the size of an upper torso. Distance was roughly twenty feet, first shot missed the next four all found there mark.
Triggers a little stiff but I'm use to a 1911 for most of my shooting lately, recoil is not as bad as I was expecting but you wouldn't want to run a box of fifty through it in one outing. ;D
The next time I take out to shoot I'll put up a silhouette target and spend a little more time with it, probably in the next few days because I'm picking up a Ruger SP101 tomorrow and will want to put some rounds through it also.
-
Awesome...congrats. Very little review info available yet. I check every few days to see if anything new shows up on YouTube.
-
Tap Tap, Tap Tap. Due tomorrow. I broke down and bought one when I found one NIB on GB for $400 delivered. So nice to not pay a premium for a change.
-
I got delayed by a week when my 45 turned out to be a 9mm when I opened the box.
Review Part 1 - Boring bench talk.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZaJiaRLaQw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZaJiaRLaQw)
Review Part 2 - Range Work
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWfuWdHztNc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWfuWdHztNc)
Obligatory photo:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v391/BDSBruce/IMG_3363_zps4acc3d1a.jpg)
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Bruce
Very good videos! They confirm my first impression that I want nothing to do with these pistols.
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Bruce:
Thank you for the time and effort obviously required to produce those excellent videos. You certainly have answered all of the questions I had about the DoubleTap, and you have saved me the cost of purchasing one.
It occurs to me that the manufacturer might consider offering an optional accessory for the weapon -- a prayer book from such religion as might be specified by the purchaser. ;)
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I appreciate the feedback fellas. I've been a cheerleader for this pistol for so long that folks were wearing me out with messages asking when my review was coming. I bought this thing as a specific use pistol that will be loaded with specific use ammunition. I'm stuck at the house this weekend, but I've got some interesting terminal tests in mind. Once those are complete, I'll tell my DT45 story with a full review write up on the blog.
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Ljutic, good work.
As far as the dimple on the firing pin. I could not judge how deep it was from your video. However, I believe I know the cause.
Upon recoil the unfired round slams back into the recoil shield. Since there is a firing pin as well there, held by a spring, the recoil force will naturally cause a small pseudo strike. A very light one. The top barrel will always be deeper than the bottom, in micro measurements.
To get around this light strike, either use stiffer firing pin springs or set the firing pin deeper. Of course this would mean a longer, harder trigger pull.
Or redesign with a cartridge retaining gap design.
But the designers probably felt the dimple was inconsequential as do I.
But again, you were there, I wasn't.
Please keep us apprised of the situation.
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Disappointed doesn't even come close to describing what I'm feeling about the DoubleTap. http://mousegunaddict.blogspot.com/2013/09/doubletap-tactical-pocket-pistol-45-acp.html (http://mousegunaddict.blogspot.com/2013/09/doubletap-tactical-pocket-pistol-45-acp.html)
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Thanks for the review
Hey it really is a "Double Tap", and if you want the round from the top chamber to hit your target, you really do have to use it as a "belly gun" and actually aim for the belly.
I really really wanted one of these even though it didn't make a lot of sense, basically the same size and weight of the R9 with 5 less rounds, the only thing it had going for it was not being picky about ammo and maybe a little more reliability - no stovepipes or failure to feed for example. But the R9 is so similar in size and weight, with 5 more rounds it really didn't make a lot of sense.
Rohrbaugh R9
Caliber:9mm
Barrel:2.9"
Length:5.2"
Height:3.7"
Weight:13.5 oz
Capacity:6+1 Rounds
Double Tap Defense Double Tap
Caliber:.45 ACP or 9mm
Barrel:3.0"
Length:5.5"
Height:3.9"
Weight:13.0 oz for Aluminum, 15 oz for Titanium
Capacity:2 Rounds
I thought an advantage of the Double Tap over the R9 would be the ability to fire +P ammo. I reasoned that a gun meant to fire 45 ACP must be robust enough to fire 9mm +P, but actually the DoubleTap is not rated to fire +P 9mm ammo, and after your video I can understand why. The right recoil impulse can set off the second round.
I'm wondering if firing the top chamber first every time lessens the probability of getting a double detonation.
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I'll let the next reviewer test out that theory. One of the tests I was planning to include last weekend was timed draw and fire practice using both the top and bottom barrel for the first shot. I've added all I can to the body of knowledge on the DoubleTap. Time for someone else to take their turn.
You are free to compare as you see fit. In my opinion, the only fair comparison is with a Bond Arms derringer.
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Bruce - Did your thumb come out of it OK?
I have had a full sized 1911 do two in a row twice after a botched trigger job. No damage to property, but I am glsd it stopped after two.
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Years ago I stood behind a friend firing a Combat Cmdr when it went full auto on the second round of a magazine loaded with five rounds - you could have covered those four cases with your hand. Very high cyclic rate!
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I would be glad that I didn't need stitches but I would worry that I'd done damage to the tendons in my hand.
It kind of reinforces what I've been thinking anyway, the best backup for an R9 is another R9.
(Although I have to admit I'm starting to get interested in the Kel-Tec P-32 :) )
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Bruce - Did your thumb come out of it OK?
I have had a full sized 1911 do two in a row twice after a botched trigger job. No damage to property, but I am glsd it stopped after two.
Thanks for asking Bob.
Swelling down quite a bit. Just a big knot at the base of my thumb. I'm sure the joint is still inflamed and will eventually shrink down to normal. I shot 4 standard pressure rounds from my G17 today as part of a terminal test and I did ok. Will continue to tote a double stack until the old thumb gets back to normal.
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Counterzero you ever score a pitbull 9mm. I picked one up today. Been looking pretty hard the past few months.
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Counterzero you ever score a pitbull 9mm. I picked one up today. Been looking pretty hard the past few months.
I think you are the one who scored today tattoo. (I've seen pictures of it.)
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