The Rohrbaugh Forum
Miscellaneous => The Water Cooler -- General Discussions => Topic started by: tracker on June 03, 2006, 12:08:10 PM
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A word for the wise;
My CHL expires in April, so I took the course in March
thinking five weeks would be enough time for the wheels
of a friendly bureaucracy to grind; now, here it will be well
into June before I receive it. My instructor and I failed to
sign the back of the photos and since he is some kind of
a secret policeman, he was hard to track down.
Bottom line: start about three months ahead to assure
uninterrupted carry privileges.
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Much easier in Pennsylvania - go in with your money and ID and old license - 15 minutes later you walk out with a new carry license good for another five years.
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We have to get finger printed again and provide new photograph, and wait.
Bill
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Obviously, my caution only applies to Texas and those
states that require a renewal course and mail-in applications.
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Tom, I'm waiting for mine as we speak
Tom
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Dave brought up a good thought; maybe I could move
To Beaver or Slippery Rock--freeze all winter but get
a walk-up renewal as a consolation prize. At least,
Beaver has a fantastic restaurant: "The Wooden Angel".
In any case I am duly grateful for the CHL privilege no
matter what any small inconvenience the bureaucrats
may pose to us.
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Did I leave ot Blue Balls Pa.? Shame on me; then, of
course, there is Intercourse down the road a piece.
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Tracker
Sounds like you have been here a few times. I'm not too far from Slippery Rock. Maybe some lay overs from your flying the big one days.
I think they may have added a photo requirement in PA. for carry - will find out when I renew in a few years.
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Dave,
You are right; way too much time on autopilot at FL350
looking at the Captain's Atlas for interesting things.
Pennsylania is a great state with much history.
My contact with Beaver was during a furlough with the
airline and I was working for Sperry Co.. I took several
US Air execs to the Wooden Angel, among many other
restaurants around Pittsburgh.
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Glad you had a chance to enjoy Western Pa. Know a number of US Air (ways) employees. As you know the company owners have not been on their favorite buddy lists.
The complaint they have now is the planes are dirty and the luggage handlers they hire now at low wages couldn't care less about your luggage.
One of the big complaints has been the type of passangers the lower fares have attracted. People that have never flown before - a number who were never taught proper manners when having to sit in a seat for a long period. I hear this one a lot.
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You hit the nail on the head; low fares are a two edged
sword. I flew full fare to N.Y. two weeks ago on Airtran.
They do a good job under the conditions but 176 pax
on a 737-800 is a bit tight.
BTW, I probably had as much fun in western PA as anyplace
I have had the privilege to touch wheels.
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Hi Tracker & Mountainman,
I lived about 5 minutes from the Wooden Angel and the less expensive Wooden Indian for about 3 months before moving to the Philadelphia suburbs. If you are in Beaver again, check out the Grand Valley Inn or Greg Powell's.
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Will do, Bill; thanks, especially since I lost my expense
account.
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I moved from Hopewell (Beaver County - Wooden Angel area) about a year ago. From US Airways onto bigger and better things in Memphis. I still have family in the area. I enjoyed 15 years of easy licensing. In Tennessee you must have a training course and qualify shoot. I did that about a year ago. I figure in the future I will move to Greensboro, NC. and finish my days there.
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It is interesting that Texas and Tennessee, two prominent
pioneer background states have more difficult CHL qualifications than many others.
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The disparity in requirements for CCW state by state is almost absurd.
I enjoy my PA simplicity but also am aware that some folks might ''go get'' a CCW just because and have little or no firearms experience - and so some mandated training is in fact useful.
My renewal is due early in 2007 but it will be a 20 minute jaunt into local County SO - done and dusted! I do feel tho for some folks where everything takes for ever - costs an arm and two legs and - initially requires something akin to boot camp re training!!
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tracker:
Although Tennessee requires applicants to take a course of instruction and to pass a written examination and a range test to obtain its "Handgun Carry Permit," it doesn't require any further instruction or testing for permit renewal. However, since all applications are processed centrally in Nashville by the Tennessee Department of Safety, renewal can take several weeks. I found that out last year when I submitted my renewal application a little later than I should have done. Fortunately for me, though, the Handgun Permit Office was willing to give me a letter to serve as a temporary extension of my original permit until my renewal could be processed.
(Have you ever tried to fold an 8-1/2" x 11" letter into a 2" x 3" rectangle to fit the license window of a billfold? :-/ )
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The other downside to the lack of a training requirement is difficulty in getting reciprocity with other states. I would like to see PA keep its current system but allow people with training to get a "training endorsement" printed on their license. Maybe reciprocity agreements could be negotiated with more states if they were limited to licenses having such a training endorsement.
Just because a state requires training doesn't mean the training will help. When I took the class in Arkansas over a decade ago, the legal instruction was awesome, but the shooting instruction left a great deal to be desired. The instructor taught a method of point shooting that involved holding the gun 2-handed at about solar plexus level and keeping the gun in the corner of the eye to keep the windage where it should be. I qualified, but have never shot a worse looking target during a class. I was unable to repeat the method using the same gun several months later.
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Per www.packing.org TN will honor PA's, but PA will not honor TN's even though TN requires formal training.
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I should mention - note this folks -
Packing .org is currently being regarded as potentially seriously out of date on some aspects of carry info.
Gary Slider who was involved with running it a ways back has kicked off a new site which by all accounts is as good as or better - plus he is endevoring to keep it very up to date.
http://www.handgunlaw.us.
Go take a look - I think it could now be the definitive site - better than packing.
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Thanks Chris.
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Indeed, Chris, thank you for the link to the new site! I've bookmarked it for continuing reference.
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Chris thanks for the link. I have bookmarked for future reference. Unfortunately NY is not a very gun friendly place. We are working to change that however. Alot of votes in NYC tough to overcome. Dan
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Oddly, living in NY does have its advantages. Most importantly, currently our permits are lifetime, so we don't have to worry about renewal at all. For now, anyway. Pataki tried to change that, to limit the permits to 5 years and to charge a fee PER GUN REGISTERED. Fortunately, that insane idea was stopped, but when you have nonsense like that coming from a Republican... I shudder to think what's going to happen next.
But for now we actually have it ok in most of NY, except the city. Lifetime permits. No training requirements. Shall issue in many counties. I can name at least five states that are more restrictive than we are, which doesn't put us anywhere near where I want to be, but at least we're not the very worst. I just hope I don't eat those words four or eight or twelve years from now.
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WoodstockDoug, I'm on Long Island and our permits need to be renewed every 5 years and it still isn't a full carry. Very restricted. Dan
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Not to bring up old wounds but Long Island will take a
long time to recover from the shooter on the LIRR many
years ago.
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Tracker,
I remember the LIRR shootings pretty well. No doubt, the "authorities" used that as an excuse for stringent CHL issue & renewal.
I don't recall the shooter having a registered weapon or a CHL. So, as usual, when a criminal act is committed the "authorities" crack down on....the law-abiding citizens!
Sometimes they even pass a new gun control law, as if 22,000 gun laws already on the books aren't enough. >:(
Steve
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Steve,
I agree; ironically, if CHL had been in existence then,
possibly the whacko could have been stopped or slowed.
Although, there is no way a commuter on the LIRR today
would be packing into and out of Manhattan.
With all of our different constraints we should probably be
thankful for a few things: viz., states rights, with all of our
differences, should be protected at all costs; and the privilege
of concealed carry.
Even today I have difficulty believing that we have a preponderance of states with a CHL law. That privilege
should be protected without compromise.
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What the LIRR shooting and 9/11 have in common is: gun control laws are what led to them happening in the first place. If passengers weren't routinely disarmed, a reasonable percentage of the passengers of those flights and that train would have been armed, and would have been able to stop the threat before it turned into what it did.
Although the Second Amendment says the right to keep and bear arms "shall not be infringed," I do believe that ONLY applies to American citizens, and I also believe that people who have been convicted of a felony have lost that "right." So I do believe in some gun control. But disarming passengers leads to hijackings. It doesn't prevent them. As a school teacher you can guess what I say about tragedies like Columbine...
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Doug,
I agree; the massacre at Luby's cafeteria in central Texas
was the same thing. In fact, a female dentist who normally
carried a pistol in her purse watched her mother and father
die in that restaurant.
She said that she would never be unarmed again.
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I'm glad I am not the only person who sees something wrong with 40-50 citizens of the greatest country in the world cowering before 1-5 nutcases.
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Count me in on that too Bill.
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Chris,
Thanks for that link..
I had noticed that the Packing site was not up to date for awhile,I was wondering why?
I have never understood why Government would ever want to restrict the rights of Citizens in self protection,unless they intended to restrict those same citizens rights in other ways!!
Thanks again,
Brenden
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Not that mass murderers think rationally or logically, but
I would like to think that thousands of CCWs across this
nation would serve as a deterrent to that abominable act.
Other than self-defense, isn't that one of the main reasons
we arm ourselves, so that BGs don't know where the guns
are located?
No one ever said that I don't have a firm grasp of the obvious.
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There is a current thread on the Graham Holster forum that is similar to this one. This link might work:
http://p081.ezboard.com/fgrahamholsterforumfrm2.showMessage?topicID=549.topic
If anyone is interested in out-of-state permits, you might find it interesting. Since some of you are already members there I won't double post my recent experience with getting a New Hamphshire permit.
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I will say this - and I mean it too - ''an armed society is a poliet society''. Old phrase but one I feel is not to be taken as flippantly as it sometimes is.
Sure there will be BG's as always but they sure as heck will know (or should) that anywhere and everywhere they might go, wishing to rob, injure or kill - there will be those on the right side of the law who will have a means to defend themselves.
I am proud to say I am (responsibly) - just one of those.
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A closure to the thread, maybe; after 3 months of
completing the course I now have a 5 year CHL extension
of the license. Thanks for all of the wise and thoughtful
commrnts.
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Good news Tracker :)
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Way to go, Tracker!
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I know one thing for certain; it is much more appreciated
when one has been denied the privilege for three months.
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I know one thing for certain; it is much more appreciated
when one has been denied the privilege for three months.
Now that is a truth worth telling! I was once "denied the privilege" for a period of time in Ghana -- the same country which gave us the current Secretary General of the United Nations -- the same Secretary General who is currently presiding over the deceptively-titled "U.N. Conference To Review Progress Made in the Implementation of the Programme of Action To Prevent and Eradicate the Illicit Trade in Small Arms and Light Weapons in All Its Aspects" -- the same so-called "Programme" which would attempt to repeal the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution -- and Ghana being one of those African countries falling within one of the following three categories
(1) Those countries in which you are apt to be shot by military or polilce if you are found to be carrying a weapon;
(2) Those countries in which you are apt to be shot by bandits or rebels if you are found NOT to be carrying a weapon; and
(3) Those countries in which both (1) and (2), above, apply.
Guess which one of the foregoing categories most accurately describes the country of His Excellency the Secretary General of the United Nations.
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Tom, I'm waiting on my renewal license to come in the mail at this point. DPS said it was mailed Friday, should be here Monday or Wednesday. Only late by 3 weeks.
Tom