The Rohrbaugh Forum

Rohrbaugh Products and Accessories => Rohrbaugh R9 (all variations) => Topic started by: rikhek on March 25, 2019, 06:32:30 PM

Title: HELP PLEASE - New Owner - Pistol Won't Run
Post by: rikhek on March 25, 2019, 06:32:30 PM
All,

I just bought a R9 via Gunbroker from original owner.  Pistol is like new and seller stated it had maybe 50 rounds run through it.  Condition of pistol suggests he was being honest.  Seller said he remembered it running fine for him but also stated he can't remember the last time he fired or what specific ammo he was using.  Serial number R3912.

Before buying I did a lot of research and am aware these pistols can be picky with ammo.  I've tried 3 different brands and it won't run on any.

I tried the following, all in 124 grain FMJ with brass casings:
-  Remington
-  Winchester
-  Federal/American Eagle

I ran 48 rounds (8 clips) of each brand using the 2 different OEM clips that I received with the gun.  I didn't get a single clip to run without jamming on ejection through 148 rounds.  Most clips jammed twice in 6 rounds and several jammed 3 times.  Very frustrating and I'm not sure what to do.  The pistol was clean and lubricated prior to shooting.  I loaded 6 rounds in the clips every time and experienced constant failure to eject and rechamber.  After a failure to cycle event the slide would be in the "open/back" position being held open by the next round in the clip with the spent round still partially “straight” in the barrel or slightly ejected but in a cocked/crooked position slightly in the barrel.  The spent casings remained in the gun in pretty much the same partially ejected position every time it failed to cycle.

Pistol is worthless to me in the current state as I don't trust it as a carry gun.  I was wondering if anybody had a suggestion(s).  I was thinking of replacing the recoil spring as it now has reached the 200 round suggested replacement threshold.  It's due for replacement now if it had the claimed ~50 rounds run through it from the original owner plus the 144 rounds I ran through it.  PLEASE note it never ran since I received it with only the advertised 50 rounds through it.  I'm pretty frustrated as I was VERY excited spoiling myself on what I consider to be an expensive pistol.  At this point I'll have more luck throwing it at a target than expecting it to shoot.....

Rick

P.S.  Where are replacement springs available, Williams Gun Sights?
Title: Re: HELP PLEASE - New Owner - Pistol Won't Run
Post by: ECR on March 25, 2019, 07:32:51 PM
Hello Rick and Welcome aboard the forum,

I would give Williams a call and see if they can help you out. They have been very good in trying to make existing R9 owners happy and get their pistols functioning. With a R3900 series R9, you are in the middle of production runs and it should really be ok. I'm sure it is something minor, so I would phone them and see how things go. The only thing I would check is remove the base plate of each magazine and count the coils. Original early guns had 10 coils, then went to 13 coils, which were too strong. We came up with 12 coils as being the sweet spot for tension in the mags.

Good Luck in getting her going properly and please keep us informed. We're here to help with what we can.

Regards,

Eric Rohrbaugh
Title: Re: HELP PLEASE - New Owner - Pistol Won't Run
Post by: rikhek on March 25, 2019, 09:26:40 PM
Eric,

Thanks for the response. My brother owns several R9’s and introduced me to your pistols. I was hoping you’d comment as my brother informed me you were active on the forum.

I just disassembled the clips and one has 13 coils and the other 12. I counted correctly and the 13 is noticeably longer. While shooting I thought one clip was working better than the other, however, neither clip allowed 6 rounds to be fired without jamming.

Also, I just looked in the “extras” bag that the original owner gave me with the pistol. There are two 10 coil mag springs in the bag. Interesting and makes me curious on the “significance” of the two 10 coil springs and the back story.

Any suggestions on my clip situation?

Rick
Title: Re: HELP PLEASE - New Owner - Pistol Won't Run
Post by: PhilZ on March 26, 2019, 08:13:56 AM
Before sending it to William's, I would try two things.  If your brother's R9 runs fine, I would borrow his magazine to see if it solves the problem.  Also, I would ask him to shoot yours to see if maybe your grip is to blame.  You might be gripping too high on the frame, causing your thumb or hand to ride the slide.  It could also be caused by a not tight enough grip resulting in a "limp-wrist" failure to extract.  If your brother shoots your gun without issue, you need to work on your grip.
Title: Re: HELP PLEASE - New Owner - Pistol Won't Run
Post by: rikhek on March 26, 2019, 09:38:52 AM
Phil,

Thanks for taking the time to contribute.  FWIW, I did my homework prior to purchasing and reading this forum was well aware of the potential for cycling issues with a limp wrist shooting style.  I consciously ensured my grip was tight with a ridgid, straight arm to prevent this phenomena.  Additionally, I'm positive i wasn't contacting the slide while shooting.

Borrowing my brother's mags would be a logical next step, however, I'm in Tulsa and he's in Harrisburg.  Too far to make this happen without mailing back and forth.  Not impossible but a bit difficult/inconvenient.  I called him and had him
 disassemble his clips and count his coils.  FWIW, his mags all have 12 coil springs in them.

I'm thinking of installing the "extra" 10 coil springs in the clips and see what happens.

Rick
Title: Re: HELP PLEASE - New Owner - Pistol Won't Run
Post by: backupr9 on March 26, 2019, 11:26:14 AM
It sounds to me like the slide is being retarded somehow.  The first thing I would do is check the firing pin retainer.  If you can move it from side to side with a small screwdriver it will be touching the slide and changing the timing.  I had that problem years ago and Eric fixed it.  I posted pics at that time, but have no idea where the thread is now.  Would also suggest going to Speer Gold Dot in 124 as that seems to be the “go to” round for most of us, and you might even try 147 since some individual pistols seem to like that better.  Lube the rails well.  Good luck!
Title: Re: HELP PLEASE - New Owner - Pistol Won't Run
Post by: rikhek on March 26, 2019, 11:43:26 AM
Backup,

Thanks.  I'll check tonight.  Only problem is I've no idea what the firing pin retainer looks like or its exact location.  I think I have the parts schematic and will be able to figure out what it is I'm looking for.

Rick
Title: Re: HELP PLEASE - New Owner - Pistol Won't Run
Post by: Thomasconnor on March 26, 2019, 05:10:16 PM
Eric,

Thanks for the response. My brother owns several R9’s and introduced me to your pistols. I was hoping you’d comment as my brother informed me you were active on the forum.

I just disassembled the clips and one has 13 coils and the other 12. I counted correctly and the 13 is noticeably longer. While shooting I thought one clip was working better than the other, however, neither clip allowed 6 rounds to be fired without jamming.

Also, I just looked in the “extras” bag that the original owner gave me with the pistol. There are two 10 coil mag springs in the bag. Interesting and makes me curious on the “significance” of the two 10 coil springs and the back story.

Any suggestions on my clip situation?


Rick

It sounds like he was wrestling with the same problem.

From your description it seems the problem is (not) ejecting the spent cases?

I'm not sure how this could be related to the magazine?...Tom
Title: Re: HELP PLEASE - New Owner - Pistol Won't Run
Post by: backupr9 on March 27, 2019, 09:48:16 AM
Backup,

Thanks.  I'll check tonight.  Only problem is I've no idea what the firing pin retainer looks like or its exact location.  I think I have the parts schematic and will be able to figure out what it is I'm looking for.

Rick

Remove the slide, hold it with the barrel facing away from you and look at the back.  There is a small almost square piece of metal right in front of you.  Take a small screwdriver, dental pick, or even a strong toothpick and try to move it from side to side.  If it moves more than a tiny fraction, that could be your problem.
Title: Re: HELP PLEASE - New Owner - Pistol Won't Run
Post by: rikhek on March 27, 2019, 03:35:01 PM
Eric,

Thanks for the response. My brother owns several R9’s and introduced me to your pistols. I was hoping you’d comment as my brother informed me you were active on the forum.

I just disassembled the clips and one has 13 coils and the other 12. I counted correctly and the 13 is noticeably longer. While shooting I thought one clip was working better than the other, however, neither clip allowed 6 rounds to be fired without jamming.

Also, I just looked in the “extras” bag that the original owner gave me with the pistol. There are two 10 coil mag springs in the bag. Interesting and makes me curious on the “significance” of the two 10 coil springs and the back story.

Any suggestions on my clip situation?


Rick

It sounds like he was wrestling with the same problem.

From your description it seems the problem is (not) ejecting the spent cases?

I'm not sure how this could be related to the magazine?...Tom

Correct. Every time it’s “jammed” the spent cartridge has failed to eject.
Title: Re: HELP PLEASE - New Owner - Pistol Won't Run
Post by: rikhek on March 28, 2019, 02:55:16 PM
Oh well, pistol is on it's way to Williams Gun Sights for repair  :'(.  I was surprised lifetime warranty is only provided to original owner.  I'm going to have to pay to have it fixed and the shipping fees.  I'll post what they find out is wrong with it.
Title: Re: HELP PLEASE - New Owner - Pistol Won't Run
Post by: rikhek on March 28, 2019, 02:56:24 PM
It sounds to me like the slide is being retarded somehow.  The first thing I would do is check the firing pin retainer.  If you can move it from side to side with a small screwdriver it will be touching the slide and changing the timing.  I had that problem years ago and Eric fixed it.  I posted pics at that time, but have no idea where the thread is now.  Would also suggest going to Speer Gold Dot in 124 as that seems to be the “go to” round for most of us, and you might even try 147 since some individual pistols seem to like that better.  Lube the rails well.  Good luck!

I couldn't detect ANY movement of the firing pin retainer.
Title: Re: HELP PLEASE - New Owner - Pistol Won't Run
Post by: backupr9 on March 29, 2019, 04:04:30 PM
Gosh, if it is not the ammo, the grip, the magazine, the springs, or the FP retainer, then I am stumped unless it is the extractor/ejector.  Back to Williams is the smart move.  Good luck!
Title: Re: HELP PLEASE - New Owner - Pistol Won't Run
Post by: MikeInTexas on March 29, 2019, 08:25:07 PM
Rick you got a lot of us interested in your pistol.  Please keep us posted about what Williams does and how this works out.

Good Luck
Title: Re: HELP PLEASE - New Owner - Pistol Won't Run
Post by: ECR on March 29, 2019, 09:58:29 PM
Sorry Rick, I've been dealing with yet another family member passing and forgot to follow up here.

The 10 coil mag springs were initially what we had in the mag. They were too light and gave us issues. We went to the 13 coil jobs and they were too tight. I ended up cutting one coil off them and tried the 12 coil springs and they seemed to work the best and had the most reliable pressure, so those became the standard setup. Glad to hear the gun is on it's way to Williams. They have been doing outstanding work on our little pistols, so please let us know how they handled it.

Again, sorry for my delay in answering back here. Good Luck and let's hope they can get her working properly again for you.

Regards,

Eric R.
Title: Re: HELP PLEASE - New Owner - Pistol Won't Run
Post by: rikhek on April 01, 2019, 01:49:41 PM
Eric,

I earlier posted my surprise that the repair is not covered by warranty.  I would have thought it was covered by a lifetime warranty to all owners, not just original purchaser.  I'm shocked the lawyers would have made this a condition of the sale to Remington due to liability concerns?  Is Williams correct on the warranty coverage is only to original purchasers?

Rick
Title: Re: HELP PLEASE - New Owner - Pistol Won't Run
Post by: PhilZ on April 01, 2019, 07:52:00 PM
I think it was always original owner.
Title: Re: HELP PLEASE - New Owner - Pistol Won't Run
Post by: ECR on April 01, 2019, 08:25:01 PM
Yes, the warranty was to the original owner only. While we did take care of almost every single R9 that came back anyway, it did give us "an out" if the person sending it back was totally abusive to the firearm and expected the company to repair it even when it was obviously mistreated to the max by several owners. That said, Williams and Remington have been doing good work for the R9 but I am not involved with any of their policies or companies whatsoever at this point. After a short stint at Remington in their "R&D" department, that was the end of it for Karl and I. It's really up to them to do what they can for you, the current owner. I'm sorry to hear they won't do anything for you, to include a possible replacement with their new RM380 (Rohrbaugh R380 variant). Heck, those are inexpensive enough and would certainly be "good will" for the industry. But, what do I know? I hope something can be done with your pistol Rick. Perhaps a seasoned pistolsmith can get it tuned up for you if Remington decides they are out of it at this point. There is nothing I can do at this point unfortunately, I'm sorry to say.

Regards,

Eric R.
Title: Re: HELP PLEASE - New Owner - Pistol Won't Run
Post by: rikhek on April 02, 2019, 12:25:05 PM
Thanks Eric.  I imagine Williams will get it lined out in short order.  As it jams in an identical manner every time I don't think their gunsmith will have much difficulty identifying the problem and resolving.  From a mechanical perspective I would think it will be a piece of cake.  It's not a complicated machine.
Title: Re: HELP PLEASE - New Owner - Pistol Won't Run
Post by: mikejd on April 19, 2019, 08:55:15 PM
Any update on this. Just wondering how you made out.
Title: Re: HELP PLEASE - New Owner - Pistol Won't Run
Post by: rikhek on May 02, 2019, 04:16:14 PM
Just received my R9 back from Williams Gun Sights 5 weeks to the day after I shipped it to them.

Regarding the issue, WINNER, WINNER, CHICKEN DINNER to Forum members thomasconnor (who just happens to be my brother in PA) and backupr9.  These two guys pretty much zero'd in on and correctly diagnosed the problem as being extractor related per the Williams Repair Order.

The Williams Repair Order states:

"Replaced extractor and polished chamber.  Tested OK".

The repair order also has the following statement written on it with a long line then drawn through it crossing it out:

"Emailed Ken about warranty???"

Sort of interesting the way the repair transaction went with Williams:

When talking to them prior to shipment I told them I wasn't the original owner.  As such, they informed me it wouldn't be covered under warranty.  They stated upon diagnosis they'd call with an estimate to repair and to get the go ahead from me.  I never received a call.  Today I received the gun back and a copy of repair order from Williams via UPS Express shipping.  The repair order also stated:

"No charge.  Remington warranty".

I'm thinking I owe "Ken" a nice adult beverage if I ever find out who he is.  I'm guessing he might be a Remington employee who authorized the repair under warranty even though it wasn't under warranty.  They also didn't charge me for the return UPS Express shipping.

I find it interesting that they never contacted me about anything throughout the entire repair ordeal.  Sort of a shame as I was wanting to order/buy several spare springs and was going to tell them to throw in the box to avoid shipping charges in the future on springs.  They never contacted me to confirm receipt of the pistol, never contacted to discuss the issue they found, never called to get authorization to repair, and the best part is they never contacted to collect payment for repairs or shipping.

The commentary provided above is not a complaint, rather a factual summary of the transaction.  I would have preferred some communication but I can live without especially considering they never contacted me to get money!

Now I just need to get out and shoot it to ensure it runs as designed.  I'm pretty certain I'll be good to go.  I'll post how the R9 runs once I can get out to shoot it.
Title: Re: HELP PLEASE - New Owner - Pistol Won't Run
Post by: MikeInTexas on May 02, 2019, 07:56:48 PM
Sniff, Sniff...............I'm a sucker for a story with a happy ending.



 :P
Title: Re: HELP PLEASE - New Owner - Pistol Won't Run
Post by: PhilZ on May 02, 2019, 09:25:29 PM
"Sort of a shame as I was wanting to order/buy several spare springs and was going to tell them to throw in the box to avoid shipping charges in the future on springs. "

Williams is great, but their $15-20 minimum shipping is a little steep for a $5 spring.  I wish they had a $2-3 puffy envelope option, but I guess that wouldn't cover the cost of the guy who has to take time to fill the order.
Title: Re: HELP PLEASE - New Owner - Pistol Won't Run
Post by: rikhek on May 04, 2019, 04:48:16 PM
I just ran about 20 clips or 120 rounds of the wide variety of ammo listed in my original post with ZERO FTF’s. Ran like a champ with one exception. It didn’t like reloads I bought some 20+ years ago at a gun show. However, these FLF incidents were due to a soft primer strike. Repeated trigger pulls resulted in the pistol firing. I’m not surprised or disappointed in the reloads as it ran 100% with “cheap factory” loads. I’m very happy I now have a gun I’m not willing to carry for fear of a FTF 
Title: Re: HELP PLEASE - New Owner - Pistol Won't Run
Post by: ECR on May 04, 2019, 08:42:35 PM
Great to hear Rik. 

A fine story with a fantastic ending.

Carry it in health now.

Stay Safe...……

ECR
Title: Re: HELP PLEASE - New Owner - Pistol Won't Run
Post by: backupr9 on May 04, 2019, 09:37:18 PM
Rik, glad yours is now running.  As an old British sports car enthusiast, I would compare the R9 to my big Healeys and E-type Jags....they were incredibly competent when carefully maintained, and the driver would be on top of the world.  When they were “broken” I was in a major depression/anxiety funk until it was fixed.  Same with my R9’s....love/hate?
Title: Re: HELP PLEASE - New Owner - Pistol Won't Run
Post by: ECR on May 05, 2019, 04:45:51 PM
I love that analogy as I too had old British sports car while in school around 1971. It was a 1953 Triumph TR2.

Great when it ran well, and, to much surprise, THAT particular car did run well all the while I owned it and never gave me an issue.

I don't know what that was all about as they were notoriously unreliable cars, but that is the truth with that car.   

I ran the tar out of that one! lol

So good to hear your R9 is running well again.

ecr
Title: Re: HELP PLEASE - New Owner - Pistol Won't Run
Post by: MikeInTexas on May 06, 2019, 09:46:27 AM
I just don't get the English sports car analogy, a Rohrbaugh will eventually quit dripping oil.






 8)


Q: What's the difference between a classic Jag owner and a classic Triumph owner?
A: The Jag owner washes his hands AFTER he's been for a pee, and the Triumph owner...


Q: How do you double the value of a Triumph?
A: Fill it up with gas!

Q: What do you call an MG with dual exhaust?
A: A Wheelbarrow!

Q: What are the two questions you hear most from the passenger in your MGBGT?
A1: Is it HOT in here?
A2. Do you smell gas?

Q: When does a man open the door of the car for his wife?
A1.When he has a new car.
A2.When he has a new wife.

Little Billy and his Dad were down at the autocross watching the Spitfires zipping through the cones.
Little Billy looks up to his Dad and says, "Dad, when I grow up, I want to be a Spitfire driver."
His Dad looks down at him and says, "You can't do both, son."


.

Title: Re: HELP PLEASE - New Owner - Pistol Won't Run
Post by: backupr9 on May 06, 2019, 02:53:22 PM
Mike, well done!  Best laugh I’ve had in weeks!
John
Title: Re: HELP PLEASE - New Owner - Pistol Won't Run
Post by: ECR on May 06, 2019, 09:32:30 PM
Yes, good chuckles Mike. Thank You!

Eric R
Title: Re: HELP PLEASE - New Owner - Pistol Won't Run
Post by: Richard S on June 11, 2019, 10:42:18 AM
I love that analogy as I too had old British sports car while in school around 1971. It was a 1953 Triumph TR2.

Great when it ran well, and, to much surprise, THAT particular car did run well all the while I owned it and never gave me an issue.

I don't know what that was all about as they were notoriously unreliable cars, but that is the truth with that car.   

I ran the tar out of that one! lol

So good to hear your R9 is running well again.

ecr
Good Lord, Eric, I didn’t know you too had owned a TR2!  Here is a photo of me in 1956 in my ‘54 model. The two “miscreants” also pictured were envious fraternity brothers.

I drove that “pocket rocket” for seven years, all through college and law school, even taking it across country and into and out of Mexico. One of the great mistakes of my life was selling it when I was being shipped out overseas by the Army in 1963.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190611/299cf258822c209b3acc5ae35fcfb07e.jpg)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: HELP PLEASE - New Owner - Pistol Won't Run
Post by: johnny on June 11, 2019, 05:32:34 PM
 I must have had the low end sports car.When I got back from VN I was sent to Fort Hood. Texas.I drove down there from Wisconsin in my 1968 396 Chevelle 375hp/4 on the great floor new set of wheels!I made a big mistake and sold it to a dealer in the area.Less than 4,000 miles on it.I'm ashamed of myself for what I sold it for.But to top that off I made an even bigger mistake.Went down to Austin one night to look at a 1956 MGA Roadster.Looked white under the carport at this college boy frat.house.Bought it.Drove back to Hood that night,parked it.Next morning we're marching in cadence down to the motor pool,and thru the parking lot.Lo and behold,the darn thing is yellow.To top it off a week later the engine goes.Out of commission for I think months.Some little place in Killeen rebuilt it.Had nothing but problems with it but a lot of fun driving down to Mexico in it when we had time off.It was the first and last time I have ever gotten taken on a car.Maybe it was money well spent. 
Title: Re: HELP PLEASE - New Owner - Pistol Won't Run
Post by: ECR on June 11, 2019, 09:20:37 PM
I love that analogy as I too had old British sports car while in school around 1971. It was a 1953 Triumph TR2.

Great when it ran well, and, to much surprise, THAT particular car did run well all the while I owned it and never gave me an issue.

I don't know what that was all about as they were notoriously unreliable cars, but that is the truth with that car.   

I ran the tar out of that one! lol

So good to hear your R9 is running well again.

ecr
Good Lord, Eric, I didn’t know you too had owned a TR2!  Here is a photo of me in 1956 in my ‘54 model. The two “miscreants” also pictured were envious fraternity brothers.

I drove that “pocket rocket” for seven years, all through college and law school, even taking it across country and into and out of Mexico. One of the great mistakes of my life was selling it when I was being shipped out overseas by the Army in 1963.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190611/299cf258822c209b3acc5ae35fcfb07e.jpg)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ha haa Richard! I have that very photograph of you in my computer somewhere when you sent it to me many many years ago now.

Here is me in my Triumph TR-2 in 1971.  Yes, the windshield slides off by taking one bolt off of each side of the trim, as you well know.
Slide it forward and there ya go. . . . Instant road racer! Lol. Now That was fun!