The Rohrbaugh Forum
Rohrbaugh Products and Accessories => Rohrbaugh Accessories => Topic started by: rtw on October 29, 2005, 03:44:46 PM
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I am having difficulty drawing cleanly out of a right front pocket holster.
The holsters fit snugly around the R9 and I have small hands/thumbs (wear a men's 8 glove) and I have great difficulty pushing the holster away from the gun as I draw. In fact, I simply can not push some holsters away.
The best holster seems to be one that catches on my pocket as I draw so that I don't have to attempt to push it away. But, I am not sure if the holster will indeed catch the pocket 100% of the time and give me a clean/sure release.
Let me say that I am trying holsters by RJ, R. Graham, Matt Delfatti, Milt Sparks and K.D.
Am I doing something wrong? Should I slick the inside of the holsters with a teflon product? What do you all do? Thanks. Dick
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Dick,
I cured my similiar problem by inserting and removing the pistol some 500 times, outside the pocket. Soon, it became somewhat loose, and you could turn the holster upside down and the weapon would fall out.
Now, when I draw, the holster stays in the pocket.
I always avoid putting any additional chemical on leather to change the retention scheme.
I sold all my holsters except the Hedley and Milt Sparks PCH.
Bill
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I don't think RJ likes this suggestion, but you might try getting one of his back pocket holsters, and carrying it in your front pocket -- the "print panel" get's pushed out by my hand -- I can't see how it would ever come out w. the gun.
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Dick:
PM sent. ;)
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Hey Richard:
I you're having trouble with the one I just sent you, it's most probably because it's "new snug". You can stretch it the same way you would a too tight hip holster and then some. I agree with Bill that in the case of a pocket holster, the holster works easier if it doesn't retain the pistol when upside down.
In any event, If you prefer to send it back to have it stretched or would like to return it for a refund, just send me an email and let me know.
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RJ has a note on his web site to place the pistol in the holster with a piece of leather beside it.
See this link for more info:
http://hedleyholsters.com/howto.html
Look about half way down the page.
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I will get beat to death over this one, but it's the truth.
[This is not directed at rTw.. :) ]
Some holster makers claim the holster will stay in the pocket by its-self due to this or that. The ugly truth is, it's not that rosey.
To work well, the holster must have:
~ very light retention.
~ A shape close to that of the pocket
~ smooth, sealed surfaces inside
~ Front carry, needs a Thumb Push off, just in case
~ but most of all, is for the user to be familiar with the
holster and its *Draw* characteristics.
User must do their part, there is no *MAGIC* holster
I deliver a holster as *Broke In* as possible, and provide means to loosen it further. Beyond that, I offer *Your Money Back* if not satisfied. And with a SMILE .. :)
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Excellent, RJ. Comments from you and Matt are very appreciated.
That is why I would never add any slippery chemicals to the holsters. It would utterly defeat all the good work that went into its creation.
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Mr. Hedley's comments about pocket holsters are right on.
Unsolicited "plug" follows;
FWIW, I have a right front pocket holster for the R-9s from Matt Del Fatti, and it's a perfect example of what a pocket holster should be, IMNSHO, and I happen to have some experience with pocket holsters (mostly for J-frames), as I've owned more holsters of all sorts than anybody I know or ever heard of.
(Lou Alessi quite seriously told me I'm his single most-ordered private customer, and Matt knows I'm a longtime "holster hound" customer of his for Glocks, HKs and 1911s.)
The holster in question is in rough-out natural horsehide, and the gun is retained to the degree that it won't fall out of the holster if I put my feet up, yet releases instantly when pulled (there's clearance for the finger so that a proper grip can be obtained during the draw and completed as the hand with gun clears the pocket). It came this way, and required no breaking in.
It's thin leather, and adds very little bulk to the pocket-carried "package".
Since the method of carry is almost as important to the CCW equation as the gun itself, I have to give Matt's work an "A++" rating here.
And I'm waiting for a left front pocket example from Mr. Hedley.
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Thanks everyone.
It's also impossible, I suspect, to have one design that suits all.
I simply find that I cannot grip the grip AND reach the push-off element of some holsters due to my small hand and short fingers/thumb.
The Milt Sparks holster has no push-off component. I assume that with this holster it should come free of the pistol without need for such mechanism-thus a "looser" fit is needed with this holster. Am I correct?
RJ's holster-which has the push-off element along the left side of the slide-on a right-handed holster-works the best-for me. He custom made one for me in order to raise the side panel so that it was closer to the grip and thus a shorter distance from my thumb allowing me to get a surer thumb push down.
I have a Thad Rybka pocket holster for a Seecamp, which has a leather enclosed steel bar that runs along the top of the slide. I can reach it OK because of the smaller size of the Seecamp. It isn't as natural as one that's along the side of the slide, however.
I must also say that the design and workmanship of all the holsters are quite something to behold. My compliments to all. It's quite wonderful to have the quality choices we have. Thank you!
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Dick,
To address your specific issue I think it is important to
have the inside made of smooth leather. I also used an
excellent product specifically made to smooth the leather
further but as Michi says some people don't like that.
I, for one, do not like to draw a gun 500 times to smooth it
out. My holster made by Lou Alessi fits all of the aforementioned considerations but the pup comes out
like greased lightning. That seems very important to me
in a stressful encounter. That is the beauty of this forum;
a lot of opinions and one goes his own way.
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Unsolicited "plug" follows;
FWIW, I have a right front pocket holster for the R-9s from Matt Del Fatti, and it's a perfect example of what a pocket holster should be, IMNSHO, and I happen to have some experience with pocket holsters (mostly for J-frames), as I've owned more holsters of all sorts than anybody I know or ever heard of.
(Lou Alessi quite seriously told me I'm his single most-ordered private customer, and Matt knows I'm a longtime "holster hound" customer of his for Glocks, HKs and 1911s.)
The holster in question is in rough-out natural horsehide, and the gun is retained to the degree that it won't fall out of the holster if I put my feet up, yet releases instantly when pulled (there's clearance for the finger so that a proper grip can be obtained during the draw and completed as the hand with gun clears the pocket). It came this way, and required no breaking in.
It's thin leather, and adds very little bulk to the pocket-carried "package".
Since the method of carry is almost as important to the CCW equation as the gun itself, I have to give Matt's work an "A++" rating here.
And I'm waiting for a left front pocket example from Mr. Hedley.
Hey Doc:
I'm glad to hear the holster works for you. The holster of mine that Richard has is very similar to yours in that it is rough out horse but the front and rear wing have reduced thickness.
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y276/DelFatti/DSCN5264.jpg)
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y276/DelFatti/DSCN5263.jpg)
The problem I've seen with the retention qualities of any holster is that it's sort of a fluid scale. What's "just right" for one person can be "too tight" or "too loose" for the next guy. But it's easier to stretch a holster than to shrink it ;D
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Let me make a correction-I don't believe that I have a K&D holster.
Matt-Is the front wing a thumb push off also? if that's the case, I can't reach it when I grasp the grip. Beautiful workmanship, by the way. Now I see why the guys on the P7 forum go nuts over your holsters and accessories!
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Hey Richard:
Yes it's actually a combination front extension for shrouding/push bar/pocket hook. If it's a problem for you and if the holster is the same condition as it was when you received it, just send it on back and I'll give you a refund.
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Matt,
Nice pocket holster..I like the cut to the top of the slide :) I would like it in black though ;)
I personally like to draw from the pocket with a push from my middle finger, while slightly grasping the very top of the slide with my thumb.. 8)
This has worked for me with different makes of holsters..
I have never been able to get used to the thumb push,or a "catch on the pocket" to retrieve my pistola..
Just me and 2 cents
Brenden
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Matt,
Nice pocket holster..I like the cut to the top of the slide :) I would like it in black though ;)
I personally like to draw from the pocket with a push from my middle finger, while slightly grasping the very top of the slide with my thumb.. 8)
This has worked for me with different makes of holsters..
I have never been able to get used to the thumb push,or a "catch on the pocket" to retrieve my pistola..
Just me and 2 cents
Brenden
Hey Brenden:
I'm a custom holster maker which is to say that I build holsters for individual customers based on the features they want. Consequently, a holster built for you would have a side push capability. The holster pictured above was not built specifically for Richard. It was one I built as a prototype.
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Matt,
Thanks... :)
I sent you a PM a bit ago..
Brenden
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That is a beautiful holster, both in design and workmanship. And very original too. And that's saying something in these times.
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Hey RJ:
Glad you like it! BTW how did that leather work out for you?
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I ordered two backs, in different weights, just to give it a try. It has not arrived yet. I will let you know, shortly..
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Many of the pocket holsters have "wings" fore and aft. On one site they are described as aids to keeping the holster in the pocket. They assist by "catching" in the pocket.
Is that the primary function behind this design feature?
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Just like a new pair of shoes ,IMO ,leather holsters need to be broken in. ::) :-*
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rtw
Is that the primary function behind this design feature?
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The idea is to help in both areas, Stability and Draw assist
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They also help to mask the "lump" by allowing the hoster to taper on both sides.
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That is what I was going to say next... ;D
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The stability function seems to have 2 components: 1) orientation in the pocket and 2) movement reduction.
Very small holsters without a wing-my Thad Rybka Seecamp pocket holster, for example-seems to settle at an angle in the pocket. The grip is not held in an upright position for gripping ease as in the case of others with wings. It is subject to moving around depending on how big the pocket is on the pants I am wearing making the orientation unpredictable.
On the plus side, it does seem to just disappear without anything really printing.
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That is what I was going to say next... ;D
I knew you were! That's why I had to beat you to it. ;D :P
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Is there a front pocket holster that works well with jeans? I have a Hedley Limited for my R9 and it works just great with Dockers and other loose fitting pants but with some jeans I find it very difficult to draw the gun out of my pocket. I don't know if a different design would help or not. I suspect that the holster isn't the problem though. When I grip the gun, my hand becomes more "fist-like" and gets stuck in the pants. These are loose fitting jeans but the pocket openings seem to be rather tight.
I'm new to pocket guns so I have no experience with pocket holsters other than the Hedley. Just looking for suggestions from those who have already encountered and hopefully solved this problem. Maybe rear pocket carry with these pants is the only solution?
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IMHO, jeans are a blessing and a curse for pocket carry...
Jeans have some real positives for pocket carry -- the thick denim resists printing very well and the gun is retained well -- i.e., will never fall out. You can also very easily hang shirts over jeans (not tuck the shirt in) for additional concealment.
HOWEVER, most jeans pockets are pretty tight. Even if the pockets are decent size, the openings are small, making extraction difficult. Gun size plays some part in it, as does you hand size. Sometimes you have to draw the gun with your fingers as opposed to a true firing time grip, which would be ideal.
Pants, hand size and guns vary quite a bit -- but I don't think the pocket holster is the problem.
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You're right. Now that I give it some more thought I can see that a different holster design would likely have no effect on this one way or the other. I'll just have to practice drawing with my fingers as you say.
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I favor jeans too..
Some are better than others for sure for front pocket carry..
My pup fills out the pocket to about the max on most of them..
Carhartt seems to make some that have a deeper pocket..
I guess we could have a tailor fit new right hand pockets in..Should not be real expensive..
Just a bit wider and just a bit deeper.. ;)
I know guys that wear suits have pockets done all the time-why not jeans if the "fit" still looks right? 8)
Brenden
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I'm usually wearing BDUs or a suit or slacks, but on those occasions in which I wear jeans or Dockers I carry my pocket pistol in one of RJ's "Back-Pocket" holsters in the strong-side front pocket. It prints as an address book or wallet, and over the years I've learned the technique of extracting the pistol from the holster and pocket using my thumb and first two fingers rather than a true firing grip.
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Carhartt seems to make some that have a deeper pocket..
I guess we could have a tailor fit new right hand pockets in..Should not be real expensive..
Just a bit wider and just a bit deeper.. ;)
Brenden
In my case it's not he pocket itself that's too small - it's the pocket opening which is too tight. I can insert an open hand easily enough, but can't withdraw it when I'm gripping the gun. Sewing in a larger pocket wouldn't help.
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I guess we could have a tailor fit new right hand pockets in..Should not be real expensive..
Just a bit wider and just a bit deeper.. ;)
I know guys that wear suits have pockets done all the time-why not jeans if the "fit" still looks right? 8)
I routinely have my right-hand front pockets deepened to accommodate a holstered handgun. The seamstress at my local drycleaners has become rather good at the task and refers to it as "making a holster holster." :)
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Richard
That is the solution, in many cases. But most guys just will never do it.
You will not believe how many times I am asked, "Will your holster fit my pocket?"
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Richard, good idea, I never thought about doing that.
Tom
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For me, with jeans, the problem is not the "internal" size of the pocket, which is easily changed, it is the size of the pocket opening -- the denim. This is not easily changed without essentially rebuilding the pants.
Has anyone tried the Toters brand jeans?
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I would suppose, the *Gun Carry* should be foremost in your mind as you shop for Pants..
Not trying to stay with, "the size you wore in High School." :-[
Deal with what you have... :D
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I have'nt owned a pair of "blue jeans", "dungeress", or "jeans since I was about ten years old because I always thought the fit was to tight and restrictive, not to mention skinning your knuckels every time you reached in the front pocket. I am wearing and have worn JC Penny Big Mac Kakis for many years and it is very easy to pocket carry in these pants,waist size 36. 8)
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Diamond Cut blue jeans work very well for carry -- I use one of Mr. Hedley's Back pocket models in the front pocket -- with the additional benefit that they have a gussested crotch for...well, to make things easier for men to wear them -- the regular cuts are made in the US, also
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I routinely have my right-hand front pockets deepened to accommodate a holstered handgun. The seamstress at my local drycleaners has become rather good at the task and refers to it as "making a holster holster." :)
I knew someone here did this!! ;)
harrydog,
I guess that in a couple of pairs of jeans that my grip is modified somewhat to pull from the pocket,guess I have not thought a whole lot about it..
I don't wear "tight" jeans for sure,more loose fit styles,some are just more condusive to carry than others for me..
Duane,
I have looked at the Toters brand in ads only,interesting for sure.
They almost look like they advertise to carry in the reinforced pockets without a holster? May just be the way that I take it..
I think I would rather buy another holster AND jeans for about the same price.. ;) They may be great though,I do NOT have any experience with them..
Aglifter,
Do they sell the Diamond Cut brand at any "specific" stores? I will check them out..
Brenden
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Umm, at Knopp and Metzgers in Fredericksburg, TX, but mainly at their website
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I was looking for a recommendation on a pocket holster for my R9S. I am currently using a Nemesis, nice holster but I was looking to upgrade. So far I have found probably 6 holsters that I like but I don't want to buy all 6 so I thought if anyone was familiar with any of them, they could pass alone that information.. The holsters I am looking at are first from PaleHorse: 1) ZULU, 2) ZULU -2, 3) Bombay, and 4) Reno. The from K&D the Pocket Defender and the Pocket Defender Convertible 2 in 1.
I carry this weapon in my right front pocket, but I was also looking for an ankle holster for this piece, any recommendation there also..
Thanks for your help.
Tom.. :) 8)
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Typo:
If I have not previously welcomed you to the Forum, I do so now.
R. J. Hedley, the "elder statesman" of the pocket-holster world, is not accepting new orders for a while. http://www.hedleyholsters.com
K&D Holsters is an advertising sponsor of the Forum, and Kevin does beautiful leather work. http://www.kdholsters.com/
Pale Horse Holsters are from Ron Graham's shop. Ron occasionally posts on the Forum, and he and his associates are known for superb gun leather. http://www.palehorseholsters.com/holsters.htm
http://www.grahamholsters.com/
Matt Del Fatti also posts to the Forum and is a real gun leather artist.
http://www.delfatti.com/
If you are interested in a Kydex holster, you can't do any better than David Brown, who also posts occasionally on the Forum.
http://www.buybrownholsters.com/gun_holsters.htm
You can't go wrong with a holster from any of these friends of the Forum.
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Rich, thanks for the information, looks like I was going in the right direction.. Appreciate your input..
Tom..
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I checked out the Diamond Cut website and see that there is a retailer in my area that supposedly carries them so I'll check it out. I'm not all that hopefull though - they look like they have the same type of pockets as most jeans.
I've worn some other pants that have a crotch gusset and it is definitely comfortable. Arborwear is a good example. They're very great pants, made in the USA, and they never seem to wear out.
I'll have to experiment but I have a feeling that with some pants I may have to go with rear pocket carry.
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typo623,
Welcome to the forum!!
You will be able to choose a fine piece of artistry from what Richard has listed..
It is really a personal choice in what you like,works for you!!
Once again,Welcome!! ;D
Brenden