The Rohrbaugh Forum

Rohrbaugh Products and Accessories => Rohrbaugh R9 (all variations) => Topic started by: FB3 on January 09, 2006, 03:03:33 PM

Title: R9 - Seecamp 380 Comparison
Post by: FB3 on January 09, 2006, 03:03:33 PM
I have seen several comments scattered throughout a few threads on this subject, and thought I would begin a thread with the above title.

I have both a R9s and a Seecamp 380.  Both were purchased new.

I have fired them approximately 70 - 80 rounds each.

Both functioned perfectly (except the R9 with S&B ammo, but I consider that an ammo problem) with hollow point self defense ammo.

Both recoil stoutly, and both whack my trigger finger.  I have pretty large hands, so this may be part of the problem.  The Seecamp had slightly more perceived recoil than the R9.

I have no problem controlling either pistol. I have grip tape on the R9.

The Seecamp is smaller, and thus easier to carry in a pocket, however, the R9 is certainly not difficult to carry in the same manner.

The Seecamp is a little easier to disassemble than the R9.

To me the Seecamp seems to be of a little higher quality than the R9, but the Seecamp is all stainless, and is finished perfectly.

The R9 is, obviously, a 9mm.  However, the hot 380 loads in the Seecamp aren't too far away from standard pressure 9mm, but still feel that the advantage is with the R9 here.

So, the two are very small single purpose self defense pistols that are really quite similar, but each has its own unique features.

Which one do I keep?  I haven't decided yet, but certainly don't think that either one has any significant advantage over the other from a quality or function standpoint.  Will just have to wait and see if I have any strong feelings for one over the other.





Title: Re:  R9 - Seecamp 380 Comparison
Post by: jarcher on January 09, 2006, 05:02:24 PM
Thanks for the post!  Whats the weight difference?  Sometimes I find my R9 a little heavier than I would like...
Title: Re:  R9 - Seecamp 380 Comparison
Post by: harrydog on January 09, 2006, 05:59:14 PM
Thanks for the comparison.
Do you plan to keep only one?
I don't find the R9 difficult at all to assemble/disassemble (although it seems most people do) so it's good to hear that the Seecamp is even easier.
Title: Re:  R9 - Seecamp 380 Comparison
Post by: MountainMan on January 09, 2006, 06:01:05 PM
FB3

To me that is not a problem so I may not be the right person to answer this.  I have two R9s, several Seecamps LWS .32s,  and a LWS .380 on order.  I plan on keeping all of them.
 
Since I don't have a LWS .380 yet I some times carry a R9, and sometimes a LWS .32 - depends on what I'm wearing and my mood.

Now is I had to make a decision because of funds, ar another reason, I truefully don't know.  In fact I may eventually get two LWS. 380s.  I am attached to the Seecamps mainly because I have been involved with them for so long.  But the R9 is like a loveable big brother.  

Confusing isn't it.

If you sell either one you will probably have no problem.
Dave
Title: Re:  R9 - Seecamp 380 Comparison
Post by: FB3 on January 09, 2006, 06:01:46 PM
Actually I can't really say that I noticed much difference in weight between the two pistols.  Obviously the Seecamp is smaller, but it is all stainless steel, so it feels very close the the weight of the R9 to me.  Darn it, now I'll have to open the safe and check this out!
Title: Re:  R9 - Seecamp 380 Comparison
Post by: FB3 on January 09, 2006, 06:04:39 PM
Dave,

I really don't need to sell either, and probably won't.  Sometimes I just get tired of having stuff sitting around that I don't use.

However, both of these pistols are just so neat that I will probably keep them.
Title: Re:  R9 - Seecamp 380 Comparison
Post by: MountainMan on January 09, 2006, 06:10:14 PM
Quote
Dave,
  Sometimes I just get tired of having stuff sitting around that I don't use.

I need you to come to my house and help us get rid of all the stuff that has build up over the years.

I would say if you sold either, a week or two later you would miss the other.

Dave
Title: Re:  R9 - Seecamp 380 Comparison
Post by: Fud on January 09, 2006, 06:10:58 PM
Quote
the hot 380 loads in the Seecamp aren't too far away from standard pressure 9mm
Both Marshall and Fackler rate the 9mm parabellum (even in standard pressure) significantly superior to the .380ACP in terms of stopping power and wound size.
Title: Re:  R9 - Seecamp 380 Comparison
Post by: FB3 on January 09, 2006, 06:53:45 PM
Fudster,

That is good information.  I would think that the 9mm would be much better, but have read that the 380 isn't too far below it.  However, your source would appear to be much more reliable.

Also, I have been called (justifiably so) a "gun renter".  A lot of the stuff that I recycle I don't really miss, but i think that the R9 and the Seecamp will both stay around.
Title: Re:  R9 - Seecamp 380 Comparison
Post by: harrydog on January 09, 2006, 07:30:52 PM
Everything I've ever read indicates that there is a significant difference between .380 and 9mm.
I had links to some great articles, but can't find them right now.

http://hunting.about.com/od/guns/l/aast9mmv380a.htm
Title: Re:  R9 - Seecamp 380 Comparison
Post by: MurrayNevada on January 22, 2006, 07:16:26 PM
Wouldn't a quality .380 JHP be at least equal to the .38 RNL that LEOs carried for decades?  Didn't those LEOs do okay with it?
Title: Re:  R9 - Seecamp 380 Comparison
Post by: Michigunner on January 23, 2006, 10:51:44 AM
Murray,

I looked at Remington ballistics and found these muzzle energy values for .38 round nose lead rounds.

It looks like your question is certainly valid.  I would feel comfortable having a .380 Auto, especially those times when you couldn't carry a larger piece.

On the negative side, a .380 Auto today might have a very short barrel which would reduce the energy output.

380 Auto JHP  191 ft/lbs
38 S&W           152 ft/lbs
38 Special        200 ft/lbs

Bill
Title: Re:  R9 - Seecamp 380 Comparison
Post by: Richard S on January 23, 2006, 07:43:41 PM
Bill:

I am now and have long been an unapologetic advocate of the .380 ACP cartridge for use in pocket pistols.  I first came to know it during my time in Germany, where it was known as the "9mm Kurz" and was carried by many West German police and military units.  In +P configuration, its ballistics can be right up there with the lesser 9mm Luger loads.  

(At this point, RS takes cover in anticipation of incoming fire.   8)   )

Title: Re:  R9 - Seecamp 380 Comparison
Post by: Michigunner on January 23, 2006, 09:15:37 PM
Thanks, Richard.

Well, if I still have enough money, someday I would like to get a nice 380 Auto.

There seems to be no end to wanting another gun.  I may have to seek treatment for this addiction.   :)

We all seem to be in the same boat.

Wait.....what am I saying?...  Already have a 380 Bersa.  That's pretty bad when you don't know you have a 380.

Holy Cow!

Bill
Title: Re:  R9 - Seecamp 380 Comparison
Post by: CaptBW on January 24, 2006, 12:28:06 AM
I have a Colt Mustang Pocketlite .380, and I am awaiting a Seecamp .380.

I tried a Kel-Tec P3AT, but it did not work for me.
Title: Re:  R9 - Seecamp 380 Comparison
Post by: Michigunner on January 24, 2006, 10:49:30 AM
Capt,

I tried very hard to make the P3AT work.  It was flawless in functioning, but the slide was unusually hard to operate.

That, combined with the small surface area for grabbing the slide, turned out to be too much.

Bill
Title: Re:  R9 - Seecamp 380 Comparison
Post by: MountainMan on January 24, 2006, 10:02:27 PM
I have a Colt Government .380 that is very accurate.  Have a Seecamp .380 on order.
Title: Re:  R9 - Seecamp 380 Comparison
Post by: The_Highlander on January 27, 2006, 05:06:19 PM
A little bit off track, but I have a Kel-tec .32 acp that is my "always" gun.  It is so small and light I can literally hide it almost anywhere.  And no, I'm not comfortable with the .32, but it is generally a bug for something larger.  And I've heard of problems with the .380 version.

I'm saving my quarters for an R9s now, so please don't get me started thinking about a Seecamp!
Title: Re:  R9 - Seecamp 380 Comparison
Post by: harrydog on January 27, 2006, 06:25:11 PM
Quote
I'm saving my quarters for an R9s now, so please don't get me started thinking about a Seecamp!
I just got back from shooting my new Seecamp LWS .32 for the very first time. Easy to shoot, very well made, and no malfunctions at all. It's a real gem!   ;D
Title: Re:  R9 - Seecamp 380 Comparison
Post by: MountainMan on January 28, 2006, 01:02:38 AM
Welcome Highlander.  My kel-tec .32 never worked right - should have sent it back but I threw it in a drawer a few years ago and haven't looked at it since.  A seecamp can't be beat for a small high qualty stainless - like holding a piece of jewlery - I have several.
Title: Re:  R9 - Seecamp 380 Comparison
Post by: MurrayNevada on January 28, 2006, 11:06:29 AM
"like holding a piece of jewlery"
(Mountainman)

Mountainman has provided the best short description of a Seecamp I have heard.  Couldn't be better said.
Title: Re:  R9 - Seecamp 380 Comparison
Post by: Jim on February 09, 2006, 12:20:13 AM
Just curious, what's the Seacamp 380 selling for these days and what is the projected wait???  Jim
Title: Re:  R9 - Seecamp 380 Comparison
Post by: Fud on February 09, 2006, 08:34:02 AM
Does anyone know if seecamp plans to bring back the .25?
Title: Re:  R9 - Seecamp 380 Comparison
Post by: CaptBW on February 09, 2006, 09:07:43 AM
Seecamp .380 MSRP $795.  The Seecamp .25 will probably not be back.
Title: Re:  R9 - Seecamp 380 Comparison
Post by: Fud on February 09, 2006, 09:54:52 AM
Quote
The Seecamp .25 will probably not be back.
Too bad, too sad.
Title: Re:  R9 - Seecamp 380 Comparison
Post by: WatchTimes on February 09, 2006, 05:55:44 PM
Get a bee bee gun, it is better than a .25.

Trust me, I have a friend who was shot point blank in the back of his head with a .25 while in an unfriendly zone.

He was able to turn around, beat the crap out of the guy.  Throw him in back of the truck and drive to the camp.  From there (now 2 hours later) he went to the medic.  He still has the bullet in his head but after hearing how he was able to do all of that without a problem when being shot with a .25 from about 18 inches I don't think I would want to count on a .25 to defend myself.  A 22 would be better!
Title: Re:  R9 - Seecamp 380 Comparison
Post by: Fud on February 09, 2006, 08:36:53 PM
In most cases, a BB gun will not break the skin. Having owned a Raven .25ACP, I can tell you from personal expereince that a .25ACP will definitely penetrate deeper than a BB and depending on the load, it is superior to a .22 as well.

EDITTED TO ADD: A .25ACP is for those times when even a .32ACP is too big too carry. Better to have something than nothing.
Title: Re:  R9 - Seecamp 380 Comparison
Post by: chameleon on February 09, 2006, 10:23:53 PM
Fudster, I will back you up on that.
My thoughts on the Seecamp 25 are two fold.
First would be to make it so those people could own one of each model that Seecamp Factory produces.

The other is, now that the 32 grew into a 380, why not make a 25 just a tad smaller than the 32.
The technology is there, the metal is here, and I'm sure it would take a whole lot of cash to re tool for a gun that totes a sub-caliber.
I'd like one, but I'm afarid they wouldn't be a huge hit.
Title: Re:  R9 - Seecamp 380 Comparison
Post by: Fud on February 09, 2006, 11:52:28 PM
Yeah, that's what I want -- a .25 smaller than the current .32
Title: Re:  R9 - Seecamp 380 Comparison
Post by: pocketgun on February 10, 2006, 03:07:16 AM
I have a Seecamp .25 now, but would buy a new, smaller .25 if they made one.  I would guess it would not be a pistol for those with large hands.
Title: Re:  R9 - Seecamp 380 Comparison
Post by: sgtdraino on February 10, 2006, 04:14:06 AM
Quote
I have a Colt Mustang Pocketlite .380, and I am awaiting a Seecamp .380.

I tried a Kel-Tec P3AT, but it did not work for me.

It is not for everybody, just as the R9S is not for everybody. The two guns actually seem to have a lot in common, as far as my experience goes:

Both are the smallest, lightest guns in their caliber.
Both will FTF like a sonofabich if you don't grip them right.
Both develop "self-limiting" wear marks on certain areas of the frame.
Both function best when grease is used on certain areas of the gun.
Neither recommend the use of +P ammunition.

Before I got the R9S, I carried a P3AT as my BUG. The gun takes a little fine-tuning, and it takes some practice learning to grip the gun right, but in most cases, it can be a good gun. Just like the R9S.

And just like the R9S, for some people, it just isn't going to work.

I like my P3AT, and don't plan on getting rid of it. But assuming I can get my R9S working on a reliable basis, I've decided I'm more comfortable carrying a 9mm.

Back to the topic at-hand, I'd be interested to see some pictures posted of the Seecamp .380 alongside the R9S. Or alongside a P3AT, for that matter.
Title: Re:  R9 - Seecamp 380 Comparison
Post by: pocketgun on February 10, 2006, 04:27:42 AM
Here is my LWS25 (same exact size as the 32 and 380) compared to my P3AT:

(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b143/pocketgun/KTOG/Pics/IMG_0291.jpg)
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b143/pocketgun/KTOG/Pics/IMG_0292.jpg)
Title: Re:  R9 - Seecamp 380 Comparison
Post by: sgtdraino on February 10, 2006, 05:12:28 AM
Wow, that is tiny.

Do they make 'em with sights?

Yeah, I know, blah blah blah sites on a mousegun, but some of us LEO's need sights in order to pass qualifications. No pass, no carry. And in courses of fire, you're as far as 25 yards out.

Sites?
Title: Re:  R9 - Seecamp 380 Comparison
Post by: Fud on February 10, 2006, 08:12:56 AM
Quote
I have a Colt Mustang Pocketlite .380
I've got the COlt Pocket Nine. Pretty much the same gun but in 9mm.

Quote
I am awaiting a Seecamp .380.
How do you get one? Do you have to privately order them like with the Rohrbaughs or can a local dealer place the order?

Quote
I tried a Kel-Tec P3AT, but it did not work for me.
I tried the Kel-Tec P3AT as well and it wouldn't feed for me with ANY ammo. I was able to chamber a round manually but it wouldn't feed by itself.
Title: Re:  R9 - Seecamp 380 Comparison
Post by: CaptBW on February 10, 2006, 08:39:08 AM
The Irish Guard on this forum is my source for the Seecamp .380.  You can also order from the factory and wait, and wait, and wait...
Title: Re:  R9 - Seecamp 380 Comparison
Post by: Fud on February 10, 2006, 09:42:27 AM
Irish Guard?
Title: Re:  R9 - Seecamp 380 Comparison
Post by: CaptBW on February 10, 2006, 10:44:57 AM
Tom Watson, on this forum "theirishguard".  Or:
tomwatson@sbcglobal.net
Title: Re:  R9 - Seecamp 380 Comparison
Post by: pocketgun on February 10, 2006, 07:47:41 PM
Quote
Wow, that is tiny.

Do they make 'em with sights?

Yeah, I know, blah blah blah sites on a mousegun, but some of us LEO's need sights in order to pass qualifications. No pass, no carry. And in courses of fire, you're as far as 25 yards out.

Sites?

No sights are available on the Seecamp from the factory.
Title: Re:  R9 - Seecamp 380 Comparison
Post by: MountainMan on February 10, 2006, 11:29:18 PM
Tom Watson (theirishguard) had a Seecamp LWS.32 on stock a few days ago - don't know if he still does.