The secret to Micro Guns is custom ammo

[the_skunk]

Bill Wilson of Wilson Combat carries a 4" commander. He got sick of pistols coming in for "Repairs" and just decided to make his own ammo. And that's what all these Micros need.




http://blog.wilsoncombat.com/1911/a-reliable-compact-1911-by-bill-wilson/

[the_skunk]

Another problem is "Too much bullet" for small guns

[the_skunk]

This Kimber Solo should be built around 32 ACP

Who is kidding who. This is like sticking 600 hp in a compact car, eventually it just beats the crap out of the car. And who is going to fire 1000 9mm through these guns.  And you are paying $1.10 a bullet. (Speer gold dots). Build it in a 32 acp where you can shoot the hell out of it at $.30 a round, and the gun will function and last forever. This is what John Browning did with his 1903 pistol.

These are 5' range self defense pistols, and not army military pistols.

[C0untZer0]

I want a bullet that will go through winter clothing, penetrate to around 14" and expand to around .65" - out of a 3" barrel or sub 5.5" AOL gun that weighs less than 15 oz.

The .32 can't do that as much as I'd love to get one.

A 380 is close, only a couple of ammo makers have created cartridges where the bullet will penetrate through 4 layers of denim and penetrate to around 13", but it doesn't expand much.

With the .32 you really need to poke a hole in your attackers heart or get ready to go mano a mano with him.

Maybe 9mm luger does beat the crap out of the gun, but I only plan on firing a minimal amount of rounds through my micro-nines. 

If I need a pocket pistol, I'd really rather it be 9mm than a lower caliber, IMO, there aren't any 40 S&W or 45 ACP pocket pistols so...

That in a nutshell is why I bought an R9.


I have a Glock 17L that I have fun with at the range.

[tracker]

I agree, C0unt; the Glock 36 is about as close as it gets for .45 concealed pocket carry.

[C0untZer0]

I was sort of talking about this on THR.

Diamondback built their DB9s to fire only one spectrum of 9mm Luger ammo - 115gr to 124gr.  Kimber went to the heavier end of the spectrum - 124gr to 147gr.  I can tell you from personal experience that my CM9 eats everything from 115gr target ammo to 124gr NATO and 147gr premium SD like Federal HST

But hypothetically you could build a 9mm pistol and tell users to only shoot 90gr to 105gr standard pressure ammo out of it, and a caveat of nothing over 350 ft-lbs.  You could build a slightly smaller, slighter lighter 9mm pistol that would fire rounds that are slightly more powerful than 380 AUTO.

[backupr9]

I carry the R9 usually, but have a Boberg XR9S that, although larger, carries easily in a Desantis front pocket holster.  It also carries beautifully at 4 o'clock IWB...larger, heavier, but has 7 + 1 capacity and +P is recommended.  Engineering is beautiful and it should, with proper maintenance, last for many years with many rounds down the spout. 

As has been said, the micro's are meant to be fired rarely and carried a lot.  My R9 gets out every few months for a range trip...shoot anywhere from 13 (carry the other 7) to about 40 rounds just to refresh grip, stance, aim point at 7 yards or less.  Then I bring out one of the big pistols for more extended range work.  Seems to work for me and the R9 remains flawless with any premium ammo (I use 124gr but have some 115 that works fine also).  IMO every handgun has its place and purpose...the wise owner should recognize and accept the benefits and limitations of each.

[the_skunk]

I don't feel good about "Shoot a little, and carry a lot". These 'High-Stepping Ladies' are code for jam-a-matics. I ain't arguing that 32 acp is as good as 9mm. My point is the big cartridge, in a small gun, is undependable. And at self defense distances, a 32 can do the job. You get 'Fatty Arbuckle' wearing 14 layers of denim - shoot him in the head.


500 rounds of 32 acp .....................$150

500 rounds of custom  9mm  ........  $600


Sort of like the "I want sights" on my pistol. I am telling you partners that in a self defense deal, it's 'Pull and shoot'. You are not going to sight the gun in, and that's no time for a jam. What is the lifespan on a aluminum frame Kimber Solo shooting 9mm?

You need to practice-practice-practice, and a 32 is ideal. Now if you heart is set on a 9mm, look at a 22 TCM.

[backupr9]

If I do my job, neither the R9, the XR9S nor the LWS .32 jam...they are cleaned with EEZOX, protected, and not beaten to pieces on the range...it is true that powerful rounds in a small package must eventually cause damage which is why I shoot them enough to be accurate at 7 yards and to be sure that any new ammo works in the pistol, and then put them away or carry them.  I do otherwise shoot a lot, improving grip, stance, presentation, but I do that using one of my larger caliber heavier handguns for that practice, especially those that I also sometimes carry.  Works for me anyway.

[the_skunk]

Yes sir Mr Backupr9

I carry a Seecamp 32, and it's strictly Gold Dots, where I have shot half the box. I find it a safe gun, fast into action, and always in my pocket. I shoot my  Sig 232  (380 acp) or my Kimber Ultra (9mm), or Browning HP, etc. at the range. I shoot for repetition, and checking reliability.

My car guns are full size 9mm.

*  Browning HP

* Sig 226

* Smith 642

* Smith 5913

* Star-B ... actually reliable

* Kimber Ultra

* Mauser Broomhandle .... Reliable

All guns are fine tuned to a particular ammo. But, when the 'rubber hits the road' I would prefer 2 guns, versus 1 gun. Better yet, a mini 14, and my FN-FAL. But surprise, situational awareness, avoidance, never hurt my feeling. A ghetto hood with a fifty-dollar- 22 can beat a GE electric mini gun if he walks up and pops you.

Avoid the situation, but carry a fast-into-action reliable gun.

[backupr9]

Well put Skunk!  Situational awareness is the best defense...avoid rather than "participate"!

I do carry my Kimber Ultra CDP .45 but mostly when dressed for winter.  The LWS .32 is strictly backup but is often primary carry when weather is hot, when I'm dressed lightly or on the rare occasion I wear a tux.  The Solo is too new to me and has not yet been free of jams, but is fun to shoot and quite accurate.  The big guns are strictly for range fun.

[C0untZer0]

I can't stand a gun with no sights or bad sights.

If Kel-Tec had better sights on the P-32 I would have purchased one by now.

[backupr9]

IMO you don't need sights at 10 to 20 feet, although a small front sight works best for me.

[the_skunk]

Sights maybe great, but I think most action will be fast and in-your-face. I doubt there will be time for sights, or clearing jams. I paint my front sights with orange florescent. 


* Situational awareness ..... Watch where you park, where you go, etc. Wolves rely on ambush.

* Fast into action ................ Get your hand on the gun

* Practice ---------------------- This is no time to figure out safety's, or anything else. The gun comes out, and you shoot.

I am not knocking sights, they are fine. But the most likely scenario is a "Point and shoot".