The Rohrbaugh Forum
Rohrbaugh Products and Accessories => Gunsmithing or Modifications for your Rohrbaugh => Topic started by: Dudster on June 18, 2010, 02:45:12 PM
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First post: I have owned a black R9s for several months and have not had any problems except for the normal first time cleaning issues. The gun has about 300 trouble free rounds through it.
I am taking a shooting class, and the instructor recommended trigger control practice using a spent cartridge in the chamber to prevent damage to the gun. With help I placed a spent 9mm cartridge into the chamber and dummy fired the gun several times. After doing this I attempted to eject the spent cartridge and found the slide has jammed. I can retract the slide about 1/4 inch and no further. It needs another 1/8 inch of travel to allow removing the pin to take it apart. The gun was cleaned and lubricated with Balistol and has been carried but not fired since the cleaning.
Any advice will be appreciated!
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Welcome, Dudster; not to state the obvious but did you remove the magazine?
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Thanks for your reply, tracker. I tried ejecting the cartridge both with and without the magazine. I haven't tried it with a loaded magazine. I can't tell what is causing the jam, and I am reluctant to start taking things apart without having an idea of what the problem is.
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That is a new one on me.
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Dudster. Welcome to the Forum. You may try this. Hold the slide back as far as you can and take a wooden dowel and insert down the barrel as far as it will go and tap the extending part of the dowel with a hammer, not hard, but hard enough.
This will be tricky as you are holding the gun with slide back with the left hand, say, and inserting the dowel with the other hand, while then reaching for the hammer and tapping the dowel. This may give you the 1/8" you need to get the pin out. The dowel should be small enough to fit inside the jammed spent rd as you are going to be tapping the spent rd.
Don't have any experience doing this, or what caused your problem, just thinking of a way to get you that clearance you need to remove the pin.
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Oh! In the future, be sure to use snap caps as these can be used for dry firing without any damage. A-Zoom has over 100 calibers.
http://www.azoomsnapcaps.com/snap-caps-pistol-detail.php?styleRef=cat01&subcategory=25 to 9mm Makarov#anc
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Did you fire it after the previous reassembly before dry-firing it? The reason I ask is that I recall not being able to rack the slide as you describe when I didn't quite do the reassembly correctly. After a few attempts I was able to draw the slide back far enough to disassemble it. This may have nothing to do with the dry-firing and I know many people who use spent cartridges for that purpose but I also like the snap caps. There is another school of thought that says it is all right to dry-fire it with nothing in the chamber but reasonable minds will differ with different guns.
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Hold the gun upside down and tap the top of the barrel on somthing that won't mar it up. Rack slide as normal.
Corey
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Thanks for your comments. I tried the dowel and hammer suggestion without results. By looking through the grip, it seems like the cartridge is extracting properly. It seems to be hanging up on something else.
I did not fire the gun after cleaning, but the gun was loaded before my practice session and the live round did extract properly when unloading the gun. I had planned to get some snap caps but the local gun shop was out of 9mm.
Lacking other ideas, I will call Rohrbaugh on Monday.
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Dudster. Sorry that didn't work. Hopefully Rohrbaugh will have the solution.
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I had this happen on live HCD rounds once. What had happened is a bit of primer metal flaked off (fried egg primer) and found itself below the barrel lock mechanism, preventing the barrel from dropping.
I was able to get it to open finally just racking it over and over. Eventually the debris moved out of the way, the barrel was able to drop, and the slide pulled all the way back.
I don't know if this is what you're experiencing. You might try this with the R9 in various positions. If you get it apart, keep an eye out for brass shavings down below where the pin resides.
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+1 on what sdlsaginaw found (and did). I think there was a thread on this issue in the range reports area. Anyway. I had a similar jam, and, like sdlsaginaw, just racked the slide really hard. Make sure you've removed the magazine first. The thought of laying out $50 to ship my pup back to Rohrbaugh must have given me a little stronger grip because I found several small shavings of brass upon dis-assembly.
Good luck,
Steve
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Those elusive metal shavings have been at the center of numerous posts in this forum for many problems. It certainly makes sense in this mystery.
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Dudster:
I just noticed this thread and would offer only a variation of the excellent suggestions above.
With the magazine removed as Tracker noted, fold a piece of leather or heavy cloth around the grips and clamp the R9 firmly in a bench vise. Then have a friend with good hand strength retract and hold the slide as far as it will go while you try the wooden dowel technique KJ described. That would perhaps allow you to be a bit more aggressive in the tapping. Just don't use too much force.
Finally, I too prefer to use snap caps rather than spent cartridges for dry firing. Brass casings can be deformed slightly during the firing process, although I tend to feel that your problem may be caused by that brass shaving issue mentioned by SD, Steve, and Tracker.
Good luck, and welcome to the Forum!
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Thank to all for your replies and ideas, they are very appreciated. As several of you have indicated, I suspect that shavings or chips of brass is the problem. I have exerted all the force I feel comfortable with and it will not budge. If I had more hand strength the suggestions given the the posts would have probably worked. Having small hands is an advantage when shooting the R9, but not in this case.
I talked to Maria today and I am sending the gun to Rohrbaugh. I will have to carry my bulky Ruger SR9 until I get the R9 back. I already miss it.
Thanks,
Bill
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Bill. Your R9 will be in good hands and back to you before you know it. Again, sorry you had this problem, however, sometimes things just happen.
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I meant top of slide and not top of barrel in my post. You should try it.
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Thank to all for your replies and ideas, they are very appreciated. As several of you have indicated, I suspect that shavings or chips of brass is the problem. I have exerted all the force I feel comfortable with and it will not budge. If I had more hand strength the suggestions given the the posts would have probably worked. Having small hands is an advantage when shooting the R9, but not in this case.
I talked to Maria today and I am sending the gun to Rohrbaugh. I will have to carry my bulky Ruger SR9 until I get the R9 back. I already miss it.
Thanks,
Bill
The R Bros will take care of you,so sorry that the Pup got bound up!
It is amazing that the extractor was not able to pull/kick that casing out for you!!
Please keep us up to date..
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Good news. I took the R9 to the local UPS store to send it back to Rohrbaugh. and was told that UPS will ship the gun, but not from one of their stores. I would have to take it across town, about a 45 minute drive. They mentioned that perhaps a gun store could ship it. I went to the store where I bought the R9 and explained the situation to one of the guys there. He is about 275 lbs. and mostly muscle and was able to force the slide back. The cartridge then had to be hammered out of the chamber. Apparently the spent cartridge was slightly larger than 9mm and my repeated dry firings drove the shell casing hard into the chamber.
I cleaned the gun after returning home and the only damage I found was that some of the black coating was worn off some internal parts of the slide. I also noticed a few very small particles of brass. After cleaning I hand cycled a clip of ammo through it and everything seems to be working properly. I'll try to get to the range next week and test it more thoroughly. I did buy some snap caps while there, but I think that in the future I will practice dry firing with one of my less expensive guns.
It is interesting that virtually all of your recommendations were correct and any would have solved the problem if I had been a bit more agressive. Thanks for your help!
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Bill. Great news, for sure. Glad everything worked out for the best and the R9 didn't have to leave home. Thanks for the excellent update.
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Way to go, Bill! Thank you for the report.
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Outstanding!!
Sometimes "excessive" force is what is necessary!! ;)
Looking forward to your shooting report!!
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I finally got out to the range the other day to shoot the Rohrbaugh. The first magazine filled with Speer Gold Dots had no problems, as well as the second containing ball ammo. I did have an FTE on the third magazine, but I had accidentally loaded Remmingtons instead of the Winchester white box rounds that I usually shoot. I loaded the magazine with Winchesters and did have another FTE.
I am a little disappointed since I am used to flawless performance from the Rohrbaugh. I gave it a thorough cleaning and will try again.
Bill
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Bill. Thanks for the latest update. Hope your next outing is a positive one. Suggestion; shoot the Speer Gold Dots for three magazines, letting the R9 cool down between mags; not a long wait; tolerances are very tight. Wishing you the best!
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stay away from the round nose ball ammo, too long ie: OAL and continue shooting Gold Dot and white box. Tom
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The reason I suggest shooting three mags of Gold Dots is to establish a base of confidence that indeed they work; then go to WWB.
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As a long time chief instructor for a major state agency and the state academy I have to say that anyone who advises using fired cases for snap caps is someone that I wouldn't utilize for any instruction. First, they are difficult to identify from live rounds by any and all students. Second the act of dry firing will cause the case to get bumped farther and farther into the pistol chamber creating problems of several varieties or causing pieces of the primer or case to cause this type of problem. Third, all competent and professional instructors should have snap caps either home made and painted red or professionally made available for those drills that call for them during the instruction process. Fourth, when doing dry fire drills, there should be nothing that even looks like live ammunition in the classroom or in the area while dry firing is being accomplished so that everyone can see that the weapons are in fact clear.
While I understand the need to dry fire during training and recommend it, I have to say that most modern handguns don't strike the firing pin with sufficient force to damage the firing pin. So the mere act of dry firing will probably not damage the pistol unless you are doing many hundreds of dry fires or more.
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Ghost:
Your first post is a good one. This member of the choir says, "Amen."
Hang around, please.
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flintsghost. Welcome to the Forum; excellent first post from me as well. Do come back often!
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flintsghost, a welcome from me as well.
John